Which Fanatec DD are you buying and why?

White Hawk · Mar 7, 2019

I couldn’t see this type of post anywhere and as I’m undecided on a DD1 or the PS4 version for extra compatibility right now thought I’d put this up, forgive me if it’s already been done.

White Hawk · Mar 24, 2019

Mr Latte said:
Yes but Fanatec needs to address the situation. Personal opinion only but tbh if buying a 1500 wheel then it should come with an accessory that lets it work with other types of pedals. I certainly don't want to have to keep changing pedals or wheels like back in the day with G25 and GT3RS.

If it doesnt ship with such a solution then that pretty much makes up my mind not to consider the PS4 compatible version. I want higher end pedals and dont want to be changing things. Id expect others perhaps to feel similar if they want PC and Console solution.

Well consoles have usually been a one controller device per person kind of thing, if the console makers or the game devs allowed that then you could plug Fanatec’s or another brand of pedals with a separate USB connection, calibrate them in game and go.

There is an alternative however and that’s a device that allows PC only controllers to work on console, there’s at least two out there though I don’t know how well they work personally.

Vranq · Mar 25, 2019

RCHeliguy said:
That's why people have 30nm motors that could easily break your wrist. They don't run them at 100%, but they get more detail.

It is not the strength that gives more detail, it is just the fact that it is "direct drive".

Fact is that a smaller DD motor gets more detailed FFB due to much less inertia. On a DD base you limit the strength to a certain value. Running a bigger motor at the same strenght as a smaller one will make the FFB of the bigger one less detailed in comparision.

And btw, if you compare engines by the amount of their cylinders and HP you should also mention the cubic capacity.

Deleted member 197115 · Mar 25, 2019

Less inertia helps, one of the reasons Small Mige is so popular.
But in this specific case, DD1 vs DD2, we are dealing with exactly the same physical motor (same inertia), one is just power handicapped, therefore more powerful wins.

RCHeliguy · Mar 25, 2019

The inertia issue is surprisingly moot because of how much more instantaneous torque the larger motor has. Granted it will suck down some current, but in almost all cases the larger motor will win in acceleration.

Remember a motor has it's peak power at 0 rpm, and these motors are always switching directions so they are near or at 0 rpm for all practical purposes the vast majority of the time you are using them.

There is no spinning up needed for the job we are giving them.

If the larger motor is current starved, then yes the smaller motor will win.

From what I understand most people do ZERO limiting in the wheelbase and instead set the restriction in software. What that means is that the motor should not be current limited and the higher torque motor should react quicker and give you more detail.

Vranq · Mar 25, 2019

Andrew_WOT said:
But in this specific case, DD1 vs DD2, we are dealing with exactly the same physical motor (same inertia), one is just power handicapped, therefore more powerful wins.

That is correct but later DD1 will have a different/smaller motor. At least this is planned but it seems as if there are more problems than expected.

RCHeliguy · Mar 25, 2019

And there will still be more detail in the bigger motor.

Deleted member 197115 · Mar 25, 2019

Vranq said:
That is correct but later DD1 will have a different/smaller motor. At least this is planned but it seems as if there are more problems than expected.

What inertia difference we are talking about here? Someone was doing calculation for difference between small and large Mige inertia impact, 19.7 kg cm^2 vs 27.7 kg cm^2, turned out to be the same as taping a quarter to a wheel rim. That was based on math alone, but I have read numerous feedback that Small Mige feels more agile, perhaps it's not just inertia but also power requirements as Small Mige is much more efficient with Torque Coefficient of 2.2 Nm/A vs just 1.58 Nm/A on Large.

But as RCHeliguy said, inertia alone impact should be virtually non existent.

RCHeliguy · Mar 26, 2019

If they have huge efficiency differences than that would mean one is greatly inferior in design.

This could be why Fanatec wanted to purpose build something specifically for sim racing.

Deleted member 197115 · Mar 26, 2019

RCHeliguy said:
If they have huge efficiency differences than that would mean one is greatly inferior in design.

This could be why Fanatec wanted to purpose build something specifically for sim racing.

Could be just power requirements, 20 vs 30 NM, I am pretty sure the design is exactly the same, just one is bigger and hungrier than the other.
http://opensimwheel.wikidot.com/
I am not buying purposely build fairy tale from Fanatec, sorry, it's not the scale of product that can offset cost of R&D and adjustments to manufacturing line.
Just some off the shelf motor that met their requirements.

RCHeliguy · Mar 26, 2019

I'm not sure that I would rule out Fanatec actually having multiple reasons for building a specific servo motor for this application. I'm not saying what is out there doesn't work well, but just that what was out there isn't optimized for this application. I would imagine that one reason has to do with getting rid of the steering wheel cable, fitting that into the shaft of the motor, making a wireless connection, and dealing with the impact of EM fields on this wireless communication may have required a redesign.

As much as people have gotten used to having steering wheel cables, the solution is much cleaner without them and it is one less failure point.

I seriously doubt that Fanatec would release a produce that interferes with how other components worked. Some manufactures have hardened their products because of these known issues with some DD solutions.

White Hawk · Mar 30, 2019

Fanatec just released a new video, quick peek at the Podium software and kill switch/remote power button included.

AlBell1967 · Mar 31, 2019

White Hawk said:
Fanatec just released a new video, quick peek at the Podium software and kill switch/remote power button included.

The release of this video tells me they never had any intention of making the initial release date for these wheel bases, otherwise they would have made and released it way back in November. It also tells me they are serious about the current release date....for now.

White Hawk · Mar 31, 2019

AlBell1967 said:
The release of this video tells me they never had any intention of making the initial release date for these wheel bases, otherwise they would have made and released it way back in November. It also tells me they are serious about the current release date....for now.

Mmmm, can’t really see the connection there to be honest, first you don’t know when the video was created, only when it was released, second it’s not like it would take that long to make a video like this, and third they may have had either no intention of making a video like this for the original release date or they might have done something different for that day and we may still see that video around the actual release date, also the idea about what type of videos to do or the style or whatever may have changed since then.

It’s a bit of a leap you’re making there.

RCHeliguy · Mar 31, 2019

I like the size of the Power Supply! It will definitely fit easily where I have my current CSW 2.5 PS now. I can already see how I would bolt the cut off switch to my P1 Cockpit. I'm not worried about how long it is taking them. The final product looks well executed.

You have to give them credit where credit is due. This is the cleanest looking DD package on the market, but that is one of the things Fanatec brings to the table. They will sell a lot of them so they have been able to add value and integration that isn't available until its release.

Personally I'm going to wait a little bit to see how well they do in the wild before I jump in. The ball is in Fanatec's court. It's their sale to lose. If they deliver, I'll be happy to order a DD2.

Circling back to the power supply. Most of the OSW's use Meanwell PS's which I have a lot of experience with. I currently own both a 1000W and a 2000W Meanwell PS for my chargers and I could max out my 2kW generator charging batteries at the airfield. They also have fans. My 1kW PS is LOUD. My 2kW PS is variable speed and it tends to be much quieter. Fanatec's PS looks like a sealed uncooled unit. There are two ways to look at this. Peak loads may be so infrequent that the typical Meanwell PS's may be serious overkill or required because of other issues having to do with the OSW setups. I can't answer that, but as long as these PS's hold up I'm good. I've had my CSW 2.5 set to 100% FFB for a while now and the PS hasn't given me any issues yet.

My guess is simply that in the volume Fanatec is expecting they designed something specific to their needs and Meanwell is just an off the shelf part and other companies can't afford to custom build something for the volume they are doing.

AlBell1967 · Mar 31, 2019

White Hawk said:
Mmmm, can’t really see the connection there to be honest, first you don’t know when the video was created, only when it was released, second it’s not like it would take that long to make a video like this, and third they may have had either no intention of making a video like this for the original release date or they might have done something different for that day and we may still see that video around the actual release date, also the idea about what type of videos to do or the style or whatever may have changed since then.

It’s a bit of a leap you’re making there.

Simple marketing. When a company plans to release something big the do a big push close to the planed release date. Fanatec did not do that in November.

White Hawk · Mar 31, 2019

AlBell1967 said:
Simple marketing. When a company plans to release something big the do a big push close to the planed release date. Fanatec did not do that in November.

Yeah, they decided to not release for Christmas, give away €350 to the thousands probably that preordered and make themselves look bad as a company for marketing purposes. That’s great PR right there, lol.

White Hawk · Mar 31, 2019

RCHeliguy said:
I like the size of the Power Supply! It will definitely fit easily where I have my current CSW 2.5 PS now. I can already see how I would bolt the cut off switch to my P1 Cockpit. I'm not worried about how long it is taking them. The final product looks well executed.

You have to give them credit where credit is due. This is the cleanest looking DD package on the market, but that is one of the things Fanatec brings to the table. They will sell a lot of them so they have been able to add value and integration that isn't available until its release.

Personally I'm going to wait a little bit to see how well they do in the wild before I jump in. The ball is in Fanatec's court. It's their sale to lose. If they deliver, I'll be happy to order a DD2.

Circling back to the power supply. Most of the OSW's use Meanwell PS's which I have a lot of experience with. I currently own both a 1000W and a 2000W Meanwell PS for my chargers and I could max out my 2kW generator charging batteries at the airfield. They also have fans. My 1kW PS is LOUD. My 2kW PS is variable speed and it tends to be much quieter. Fanatec's PS looks like a sealed uncooled unit. There are two ways to look at this. Peak loads may be so infrequent that the typical Meanwell PS's may be serious overkill or required because of other issues having to do with the OSW setups. I can't answer that, but as long as these PS's hold up I'm good. I've had my CSW 2.5 set to 100% FFB for a while now and the PS hasn't given me any issues yet.

My guess is simply that in the volume Fanatec is expecting they designed something specific to their needs and Meanwell is just an off the shelf part and other companies can't afford to custom build something for the volume they are doing.

Yeah, it’s bigger than the CSW one but it’s a lot smaller of course than the other DD systems as it’s just the power, it’s certainly a plus for me to be able to keep it attached on the rig when I have so little room and have to occasionally move the rig also. Should be a very easy swap and setup when time comes, the hard part I think is going to be dialling in the FFB.

Deleted member 197115 · Mar 31, 2019

Meanwell SDR-480 used in Simucube builds does not have active cooling aka 'noiseless' unit.
Fanatec makes good looking gears, if the look is what you are after.
Hope this time packaging quality corresponds to the content.
We'll see.

OZ67 · Mar 31, 2019

AlBell1967 said:
Simple marketing. When a company plans to release something big the do a big push close to the planed release date. Fanatec did not do that in November.

I don't think they would have handed out $500 Vouchers to the pre purchase crowd if they knew they were going to be late in release. Doesn't make sense.