Which Fanatec DD are you buying and why?

[White Hawk]

I couldn’t see this type of post anywhere and as I’m undecided on a DD1 or the PS4 version for extra compatibility right now thought I’d put this up, forgive me if it’s already been done.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Waiting isn't always a bad thing. As was mentioned, they are probably going to have some issues after release. That's normal, not a stab at Fanatec.

This is a hobby for enjoyment not torturing ourselves. If this is really driving you nuts, maybe it's time to step back for a little perspective.

Remember these are just toys to use with video games.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

If everything works out fine and Fanatec really delivers with OSW reliability, that'll leave very little room on the market for Simucube.
I'd personally give it at least 6 months before making any purchase decisions.

 

[RCHeliguy]

That's the thing. If Fanatec nails this than OSW will be a very hard sell except for people who want to continually upgrade their encoders, motors etc..

Fanatec would effectively take DD Mainstream in a way that and OSW solution is unable to do.

This builds on what Fanatec has done better than any other sim company which is offer a wide assortment of nice rims. Once they encrypt them, OSW options will be much more limited, which will hurt them. Not everyone wants to spend 1000-1200 for a rim like for a Leo Bodnar.

I think it's far less likely that they will put out a better set of pedals than Heusinkveld, just because of the efforts and experience Heusinkveld has there, but Fanatec does have some serious IP in the wheelbase market.

 

[White Hawk]

Just had an answer to a few questions from Dom at Fanatec.

“The encoder and electronics handling FFB detail are the same for all three Podium systems. The reason why the DD2 feels better than the DD1 is because it can deliver higher torque, and therefore has a wider dynamic range.

The Podium Kill Switch should be considered more of a 'remote power button' rather than an essential safety device. For the typical use case, it is more about convenience, as unlike most kill switches, it features a separate power button that can power up and turn off the base. The standard power button for the base is located around the back of the device, so the Podium Kill Switch allows you to position a power button in a more convenient position on your rig. Of course, it does add another layer of security, and can be important for professional use cases.

To answer your question "Why does the DD1 not include the kill switch when that still has enough torque to hurt someone?", well the ClubSport and CSL bases have enough torque to injure someone too, and all should be used with care. All three Podium systems come with a Torque Key that must be inserted at all times in order to unlock the full performance. A safety check happens on each startup, and you have to accept the warning message displayed on the OLED.

And yes, the Podium Kill Switch is compatible with all three Podium systems, and we intend to make this product available separately for the Podium Wheel Base DD1 and Podium Racing Wheel F1 at launch.”

So he’s saying the electronics/encoder are the same but the DD2’s higher torque gives it more detail, so confirming it does feel better, but I still don’t get how that can be if the motor and electronics are the same in both, you are not going to set the FFB higher just because you have more to work with, don’t understand it, unless they are also in the firmware are telling the motor to be slower in its reactions as well.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

I bet PSU is different. And as an OSW owner I would never use high velocity/torque system without easy to reach safety switch. Saved my ass a few times already.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Think about it this way.

Compare a 4 cylinder engine with 250 Hp.
to 8 cylinder engine with 300Hp.

The V8 also has more torque and not just a bit more power.

The bigger electric motor also has more torque so it can react quicker.

Since it is the same motor, the electronics probably don't carry the same instantaneous current and thus doesn't allow the motor to react as quickly.

You need to temporarily be able to throw a very thin high current spike to get better feel.

That's why people have 30nm motors that could easily break your wrist. They don't run them at 100%, but they get more detail.

 

[White Hawk]

Yeah but he said the motor (engine) AND the electronics are the same, so are you saying by limiting the holding and peak torque that will have an effect on lower torque setting as well even if all hardware is identical? I would have thought it wouldn’t matter at all if they were both set the same strength on the same motor. Something just doesn’t add up.

I’ve never seen anyone suggest you get more FFB detail out of a more powerful motor, only when you got a better encoder for it.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Nm.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I’ve never seen anyone suggest you get more FFB detail out of a more powerful motor, only when you got a better encoder for it.

You need to read more on this subject because that is exactly why people buy more powerful motors and then only use 40% or less.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Nm.

 

[White Hawk]

You need to read more on this subject because that is exactly why people buy more powerful motors and then only use 40% or less of the power.

Yep, I don’t get it, never seen anyone mention the power making a difference on detail, only a higher quality encoder, I’ve seen tons of people however mention they don’t need that many NM’s.

Nm.

Is that never mind or newton meter? And why did you delete what you said and post Nm again?

 

[RCHeliguy]

Those neverminds were just me throwing in the towel and giving up.

 

[White Hawk]

Ok then, thanks.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

The quicker motor can accelerate the more details you can get, as they are direct result of motor quickly changing direction of movement, like diaphragm vibration in audio speaker.
You can achieve it with lower inertia and higher torque output.
Think how to make car go faster 0-60.

 

[White Hawk]

The quicker motor can accelerate the more details you can get, as they are direct result of motor quickly changing direction of movement, like diaphragm vibration in audio speaker.
You can achieve it with lower inertia and higher torque output.
Think how to make car go faster 0-60.

OK, I got it Andrew, I was looking at it from the wrong direction, thanks for not deleting your posts.

Looks like I’m spending more money.

 

[Shovas]

Just saw this..

'This setup has been running for 3 months. One motor acts as a person's arms, the other motor acts as the wheelbase thereby simulating infinite laps around the Nords'

Lol

That's a great marketing stunt with some actual technical chops.

 

[Mr Latte]

If I have 2 identical speakers and 2 identical amps and these are 100w compatible for both speakers and amps. Yet on set (A) I limit the output of the amp to only output 60watts while set (B) has the full 100 watt output available.

This does not mean that the amp used for set (A) has less dynamic range, or that indeed the speaker has less bass/treble detail. What it does mean is that set (A) will have less peak output.

We can speculate all day but really even with the same encoder used its possible they could restrict the operation of the DD1 via firmware. Although, why would they limit its detail, they want the wheels to compete with others in the market and be as good as possible.

Reliability
The question is perhaps in the durability of the cheaper motor (when it comes) compared to the more expensive unit used. Additionally, Fanatec have known of production issues with the smaller motor. So it makes sense they would be offsetting the price of the DD2 to be higher to help compensate the loss in profit with DD1 first batches using the higher spec motor.

Now, do we really think the DD2 is worth an extra 500? That is quite a big jump and who really needs its additional output? It seems this suits professional installations that want to be ensured it uses a highly durable motor and even comes with a multiyear warranty as peace of mind. I don't question the larger motors durability.


PS4 Support Query
While for the same money the Podium F1 PS4 based wheel may be seen as better value. Yet personally I still think this is priced too high to mainly gain the ability to play GT Sport. Another factor I am not personally sure about. Does this PS4 support require Fanatec Pedals?

If this is the case then isnt it too much bother swapping pedal sets for most people?
I would presume the majority of sim users with 1500 steering wheels will have or want better than Fanatec pedals as their primary pedal set to use.

So would some like GT Sport / PS4 compatibility, yeah but certainly not if that also means having to also buy Fanatec pedals and swap over. It's for most people just not convenient or likely going to be worth the hassle.

 

[RCHeliguy]

In the stereo analogy, the driver responses the same way at 20W power with both a 60W or 100W amplifier short of dynamic clipping situations.

Motors are different in that they make 100% of their torque at 0 rpm. They don't have to spin up to draw massive current. Limitations in the PSU and circuitry that feed the motor mean that its response as it switches direction quickly is directly related it's torque rating and access to all the current it needs to reach that rating.

 

[WhippyVan]

PS4 Support Query
While for the same money the Podium F1 PS4 based wheel may be seen as better value. Yet personally I still think this is priced too high to mainly gain the ability to play GT Sport. Another factor I am not personally sure about. Does this PS4 support require Fanatec Pedals?

If this is the case then isnt it too much bother swapping pedal sets for most people?
I would presume the majority of sim users with 1500 steering wheels will have or want better than Fanatec pedals as their primary pedal set to use.

So would some like GT Sport / PS4 compatibility, yeah but certainly not if that also means having to also buy Fanatec pedals and swap over. It's for most people just not convenient or likely going to be worth the hassle.

Pretty sure the PS4 needs the pedals run through the base to work like the xbox. Now Fantec will no doubt advise you not to do this but if you buy a CSL Elite load cell kit you end up with the pedal electronics that accept a 4 wire load cell for brake and pots (can't see why hall sensors/and load cells for these would not also work with some extra pixie wrangling to give a 0-3.3v signal to the fanatec box) for accelerator/clutch with some RJ12 cables

 

[Mr Latte]

Pretty sure the PS4 needs the pedals run through the base to work like the xbox. Now Fantec will no doubt advise you not to do this but if you buy a CSL Elite load cell kit you end up with the pedal electronics that accept a 4 wire load cell for brake and pots (can't see why hall sensors/and load cells for these would not also work with some extra pixie wrangling to give a 0-3.3v signal to the fanatec box) for accelerator/clutch with some RJ12 cables

Yes but Fanatec needs to address the situation. Personal opinion only but tbh if buying a 1500 wheel then it should come with an accessory that lets it work with other types of pedals. I certainly don't want to have to keep changing pedals or wheels like back in the day with G25 and GT3RS.

If it doesnt ship with such a solution then that pretty much makes up my mind not to consider the PS4 compatible version. I want higher end pedals and dont want to be changing things. Id expect others perhaps to feel similar if they want PC and Console solution.