What's still missing in AC?

Bram Hengeveld · Jan 22, 2015

Think we can all agree that we adore this sim but despite the fact the game has reached version 1.x it's far from completed.

Personally I don't understand why AC was labeled 1.0, with some very basic sim racing features missing compared to competing titles on the PC sim racing market, and not just kept early access until all work was done.

To just have an overview of what's still missing I'd like to hear your opinion in this discussion thread.

What's absolutely needed to call AC complete?

Michael Carver · Apr 20, 2015

The "feel and character" will always depend on the source and of course the skill of the modder(s). Most mods "borrow" from other sources, Many of these sources do not fully model the real-world track. While a modded track may have great feel and character, it may not match the feel and character of the actual track. Even modders work under time/budget.

Laser scanning provides "precise physical features of each track’s racing surface. ... a mathematical ‘bump map’ of the track’s camber, cracks, curbs, undulations and patches." If the source of a modded track was laser scanned, then the modder basically duplicates the "character" from the source.

Mr Whippy said:
Well modded tracks can get very close to laser scanned tracks.

For a lot of tracks the detail on offer might even be better as community made, by really good modders, vs the AC official tracks. Mainly because the AC tracks are made to a time/budget, while mod ones are not.

OK pure accuracy, no not as good, but the 'feel' and character of tracks will be just as good or better in my view

Dave

Tobbe Bergman · Apr 20, 2015

They should change the version number to 0.3 or something.
There is a lot of basic stuff that is simply missing !

felan · Apr 20, 2015

Still lots of stuff is missing, just to name a few:
- Netcode still needs to be improved
- better setup screen with the race-engineer app included (netCarPro-style)
- native Motec or Atlas support
- more server tools (track-circle, server replays, ect.)
- I want to drive the skin online which I have choosen
- proper race end (not that enoying screen) incl. the possibility to save the replay of the race (online)
- watching replay while in practice and qualy during an online-race
- better live-timing (iRacing F3-style)...btw, I think it's a shame that we need 3rd party tools for such a function (no offend against the modders, you're doing a great job with this apps)
- online setup-sharing
- more shortkeys to be customized by the player
- better chat-interface while driving (shortkey for chat on/off) incl. more lines

Alan_Bernardo · Apr 20, 2015

Mikaela Andersson said:
They should change the version number to 0.3 or something.
There is a lot of basic stuff that is simply missing !

You're being too kind. The game is pre-number. Worst MP racing game since NetKar Pro, a Kunos flop because he and his team failed to make improvements.

AC is a little more advanced, but follows the same model.

Alan

Asterix · Apr 21, 2015

Many of my 'wants' have been listed before but I'd really like the ability to adjust controls from in-game, say when parked up in the pits, rather than having to completely exit the session you're in. It's a pain when you're working on set ups for certain cars and you need to tweak something like Brake Gamma.

Oh, and a brake pressure adjustment as a set-up option.

Kingspian · Apr 21, 2015

- AI still needs improvments.
They are breaking to hard on Mugello tracks and other tracks and keep crashing into them. I go like 65mph to 70mph. They just drop to 50 mph on each turn.

- Timer
up to 3 hours during the race just like Blancpain GT

Mr Whippy · Apr 21, 2015

Michael Carver said:
The "feel and character" will always depend on the source and of course the skill of the modder(s). Most mods "borrow" from other sources, Many of these sources do not fully model the real-world track. While a modded track may have great feel and character, it may not match the feel and character of the actual track. Even modders work under time/budget.

Laser scanning provides "precise physical features of each track’s racing surface. ... a mathematical ‘bump map’ of the track’s camber, cracks, curbs, undulations and patches." If the source of a modded track was laser scanned, then the modder basically duplicates the "character" from the source.

I know many modders borrow source data, but good modders will borrow and improve, or rework heavily, or just straight work from scratch.

A half generation later most modders now have super high res aerial imagery freely available on Google, Bing etc, we have YouTube full of HD videos from people with new HD cameras. We have all sorts of reference sources today, that 10 years ago the average modder just simply didn't have at all.

As for feel and character, I mean in the entire finished piece. I appreciate that surface character and feel will not be exact, but to a certain extent that can be 'made up' and still feel good... only pro sim users probably even care.

But for the other meaning of the words feel and character, I can go drive some modded tracks and feel like it's a real place, at a certain time of year, say a lazy autumn afternoon. There is real 'feeling' to the track.
I drive the AC tracks and they feel dead in comparison. Stuff is in the right place, and the right colour, but they feel souless and unrealistic quite a lot of the time.
Again they are great for pro-sim users, but pretty boring to just drive around for 'fun'... because they feel so dead.

So personally I'm not too concerned about more tracks in AC, I'd mostly prefer to run decent modded tracks because ultimately online racing is just as fun and enjoyable on a laser scanned real track, as it is on a modder made track.

That is at least why I think AC needs to remember the core and keep updating it... not just thinking AC is done and just churn DLC content packs.

If DLC helps finish the core great, but until that is clearly outlined and stated I won't be buying DLC to see the core remain half finished!

Dave

Radu Oros · Apr 22, 2015

Race tracks aren't that special in real life either. You've been spoiled by games that transform race tracks into carnival events.

hexagramme · Apr 22, 2015

The focus on DLC is just a bit ominous, I think...
Why would Kunos put so much effort into creating DLC for a game with so many fundamental features missing?

Personally I hope we won't see one single new car or track before Kunos steps up and makes massive improvements to the core of the sim. It's about time, I'd say.

Asterix · Apr 23, 2015

Just thought of something else that drives me nuts!

Why have the 'Exit' tab, just below the 'Back to pits' tab?

A few times I've exited qualy and lost pole or a good position. At least have a 'Are You Sure?' check before existing.

Andreas Knöpke · Apr 23, 2015

hexagramme said:
The focus on DLC is just a bit ominous, I think...
Why would Kunos put so much effort into creating DLC for a game with so many fundamental features missing?

Personally I hope we won't see one single new car or track before Kunos steps up and makes massive improvements to the core of the sim. It's about time, I'd say.

I don't know how many times this needs to be explained...the people who model the cars & tracks, paint the liveries and create the sounds are not the ones who program the game's code code.

So naturally whenever development is supposed to continue this needs to be funded through DLCs, but since we are also about to get a free bonus pack I don't understand why people come up with these same old same old arguments all the time.

Yes, they know the game has more potential than its current status shows but

A: they are working on improvements
B: the game is already exceptional and plenty of fun to play and race with

poet · Apr 23, 2015

I think people are well aware that content is different from core in terms of developers involved and manhours allocated etc.

However, the point is still valid.
Much of their PR - through social media and interviews etc, is about content -either free or paid - future DLC's etc.

In some ways it gives out the message that they are happy with their platform as it is and are now just seeking to sell extra content for it.

Most companies would never sell DLC for a beta game.

Whether that's the case or not is irrelevant, that is the message they are sending out, and many think the platform still isn't close to being finished.

Personally, I'm happy to give them the time, but I do sympathise with those who look for details from Kunos about when things are going to be fixed or improved and all they hear is more talk about what's up for sale next.

Andreas Knöpke · Apr 23, 2015

Things are being fixed and improved all the time.
Just check out the massive FPS increase with the 1.1 update.
Granted, in terms of features the progress is rather slow and most fixes are less visible or noticable but the changelogs that come with each and every upgrade are packed with corrections.

You cannot judge the update progress based on marketing and media stuff they put on facebook, that's just wrong as those are 2 entirely different topics.

poet · Apr 23, 2015

1.1 was nice.
Then they changed the timing in the next update or 2 and ruined the whole experience for many of us with horrible stutter.

FPS improvements are a drop in the ocean compared to a lot of what is missing or just not working.
Again, I'm happy to leave them to it, but do think people have a valid reason to voice their concerns over the push for more DLC. That's all.

xnorb · Apr 23, 2015

poet said:
Whether that's the case or not is irrelevant, that is the message they are sending out, and many think the platform still isn't close to being finished.

That's marketing.
That's why you ask current owners in (hopefully critical) forums about the state of the game and not their facebook or twitter

The danger for Kunos at this moment is:
When i start up a racing sim, it's GSC and not AC simply because the stuff that's lacking although i do enjoy the content Kunos delivers, i just want the platform this content runs on to be better

If improving AI and multiplayer takes too long people might not even care about AC anymore - their biggest bonus is that the racing sim market with modern graphics is very small.

Falk Massmann · Apr 23, 2015

I´m completely with poet on this. I don´t say there is no improvement on updates. But there are a lot of things missing or not working as one would expect from a game in pre release state.
It has been stated numerous times. For people like me who are expecting from a developer studio that they keep improving their software until it´s up to the standard what they have promised the worst thing one could do is to give the impression that this is not so important anymore. And announcing more bonus/DLC-packs besides saying nothing about improving the core of the game and features that should be there leaves those people clueless about what to expect.
I´m not saying that kunos won´t keep improving the core of AC but I wish they would be as chatty for core improvements as they are on their content addons.
From a marketing standpoint this is very bad in my oppinion.

Cheers

destinationriver · Apr 23, 2015

Things I like to see in AC:

- Pit Stops
- realistic damage (also optic)
- posibillity, to look left and right in cockpit view

Andreas Knöpke · Apr 23, 2015

destinationriver said:
Things I like to see in AC:

- Pit Stops
- realistic damage (also optic)
- posibillity, to look left and right in cockpit view

There are pitstops in MP race sessions.
What's your concern with the damage? I like the scratches, uneven wings, scattered windshiels, side windows etc.
You can of course look left and right, just map the buttons in the menu.

destinationriver · Apr 23, 2015

Andreas Knöpke said:
There are pitstops in MP race sessions.

What's your concern with the damage? I like the scratches, uneven wings, scattered windshiels, side windows etc.

You can of course look left and right, just map the buttons in the menu.

- Lol, mean pit stops in Singleplayer.
- No flying car parts, no heavy damages, etc
- Lol, don't work at me. Mapped it on L3 and R3 on my T500 wheel, works fine outside the car, but not in the cockpit.

Brandon Wright · Apr 23, 2015

Andreas Knöpke said:
I don't know how many times this needs to be explained...the people who model the cars & tracks, paint the liveries and create the sounds are not the ones who program the game's code code.

So naturally whenever development is supposed to continue this needs to be funded through DLCs, but since we are also about to get a free bonus pack I don't understand why people come up with these same old same old arguments all the time.

Yes, they know the game has more potential than its current status shows but

A: they are working on improvements

B: the game is already exceptional and plenty of fun to play and race with

If they could just be bothered to tell us what features are in the works and a rough estimate of when we could expect them, then I'd guess a lot of people would stop complaining. Right now they've pretty much gone quiet on everything except new content, which leads people to the conclusion that we won't be getting many more improvements to the core of the game (which it really needs), and justifiably so.