What to buy? Fanatec CSW or T500RS

[Ilias Axarlis]

I'm thinking to buy CSW base with the gt2 rim and the v2 pedals, I'm actualy between this and the T500 RS, but I have found reports for bad reliability on fanatec products but there are all 1 year ago. Is there any new feedback on this? Have they fixed the problems or they are still there?

 

[Rupe Wilson]

Well i went for a T500 the other day and im happy with my purchase.
it feels so different to my G25, im still getting used to it with the settings, for the first day of testing i was sat their thinking i might go back to my G25
but now im starting to see the benefits of the wheel.
its alot alot more smoother in how it feels with the feedback...
give it a couple of months to get used to and im sure ill love it like i did my G25

 

[UFwho]

Fact:
Fanatec CSW looks like a german quality product but has two very low quality toy motors,Mabuchi RS555PH, to drive FFB. Each one costs around 2 or 3 euros (yes, its true. Google it).
T500rs doesn't look so cool but has one German industrial quality motor,Bühler 1.13.044.236, driving its FFB. Each motor costs around 100 euros. This single motor has more power than both Fanatec motors together not to talk about quality.

-Thrustmaster has pedals, and a good ones.
-Thrustmaster is 200 to 300 euros cheaper.
-There are a lot of mods including Wheels, Wheel adaptors, good quality loadcells (as oposite to ones found on Fanatec pedals) to thrustmaster that you can buy to upgrade. There's none to Fanatec.
-Fanatec looks much cool and better.............but it isn't.

Thank You!!! Good info. In fact we've got a "Warrior of Truth" in here who is waiting to hear from you...

 

[David Ignjatovic]

As if those motors would cost $2-$3.....that's just plain silly.

 

[Peter]

As if those motors would cost $2-$3.....that's just plain silly.

Was that sarcastic David?
http://www.amazon.com/Mabuchi-Motor-RS-555PH-9~20V-57mm/dp/B0096BJ92E

 

[RaceNut]

The Buhler motors are stronger but, require some machining mods and different power supply and cooling solution. There may also be some firmware work that would need to be done according the the thread on the GTPlanet forums. Testing is currently ongoing using the Buhler's.

 

[Turk]

Fact:
Fanatec CSW looks like a german quality product but has two very low quality toy motors,Mabuchi RS555PH, to drive FFB. Each one costs around 2 or 3 euros (yes, its true. Google it).

It's pretty disappointing when the Fanatec boxes arrive and all that's written on the outside of the box is "made in China", I thought I was buying German made products. Although I know that European factories in China are practically in the same league as their counterparts back home but still, hugely disappointing. I only got the Forza wheel off them and it's got a faulty fan already. Other than that I'm happy with it, although I don't know any better, my other wheel was a thrustmaster F430.

I also got the CSR Elite pedals and so far can't fault them at all, they're nice big solid lumps of aluminium but I've read the load sensor can give trouble.

the CSR shifters aren't worth the money, at all and they're cheap.

 

[Alexandre Baptista]

hmmm, thnx alexbap, I never realised there was such a big quality difference in motors

Unfortunately their's a lot of components with big diference both in price and in quality.

CSW use this 24$ PSU http://www.basherboards.com/media/csw_psu.JPG

Thrustmaster use this 100$ psu
http://pt.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean-Well/GS160A24-R7B/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuHCAZ7U3Ea2isUlRk6pvKl

When buying T500 you are paying quality components. Its an expensive wheel pack but you got what you pay. With CSW, unfortunately, you are paying a very good looking wheel with low quality components.
You just have to choose your priorities.

 

[RaceNut]

Was that sarcastic David?
http://www.amazon.com/Mabuchi-Motor-RS-555PH-9~20V-57mm/dp/B0096BJ92E

It should be noted that there are many different versions of this motor (Model RS555PH). The one that is used in the Fanatec's is actually pretty hard to find and usually costs quite a bit more than this one shown on Amazon. The torque and load characteristics of the motors used are very important.

 

[Tim Meuris]

Unfortunately their's a lot of components with big diference both in price and in quality.

CSW use this 24$ PSU http://www.basherboards.com/media/csw_psu.JPG

Thrustmaster use this 100$ psu
http://pt.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean-Well/GS160A24-R7B/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuHCAZ7U3Ea2isUlRk6pvKl

When buying T500 you are paying quality components. Its an expensive wheel pack but you got what you pay. With CSW, unfortunately, you are paying a very good looking wheel with low quality components.
You just have to choose your priorities.

These are such hard facts
but why did they make it look so damn BUTTugly
I hate that controllerlook, I just hate it

Man, I'm so curious how much both products cost in total only for their materials...

 

[Noel Spence]

All very interesting information hopefully fantec have not skimped on the mabuchi motors, otherwise I would be most upset after paying a high price for the equipment, but surely my motors would have been burnt out by now with six months of serious use, so I would say like race nut said they are a higher price motor worth more than three dollars ones , i wish someone would confirm the price on the motors

 

[Dietmar]

All very interesting information hopefully fantec have not skimped on the mabuchi motors, otherwise I would be most upset after paying a high price for the equipment, but surely my motors would have been burnt out by now with six months of serious use, so I would say like race nut said they are a higher price motor worth more than three dollars ones , i wish someone would confirm the price on the motors

I am also convinced that you get what you pay for, unfortunately sometimes you pay more than you need, rarely less, though. Not implying anything here on either wheel.

BUT, I personally don't care much about how much each part of the device cost, as long the whole product delivers the performance I expect from it. And yes from a product of that price ranges we are talking I do expect no failures after a couple of month because of overheating components.

 

[MarkVenom]

As if those motors would cost $2-$3.....that's just plain silly.

Hallelujah!

Thank You!!! Good info. In fact we've got a "Warrior of Truth" in here who is waiting to hear from you...

Mod-edit: offensive language removed and account sent to simberia

At arms reach you would have gotten a backhander for that one. As for the post about the motors: Incorrect. (please see David's post. Nothing else to add).

 

[Alexandre Baptista]

I'm not sure what motor version is used on current wheel bases, but CSW Elite has RS-555PH-22130 version. Acording to Mabuchi, this motor is out of production for a long time and their current replacemente is this.
http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp/cgi-bin/catalog/e_catalog.cgi?CAT_ID=rs_555pcvc
Is because of this that they are hard to find.
This are cheap motors mainly used on inkjet and laser printers and vibrators. Whatever version is Fanatec using, people should know that all this motors are in same price range.
Coming here and saying that they are using diferent versions as if this "secret" versions were on a diferent league of quality is not correct to other users searching for help and information.
I have nothing against Fanatec. I think they were very important in this industry and thanks to them we have much more quality choices afordable to average people, including T500rs.
But the fact is when talking about components, and crucial components on a wheel, CSW is much worst than T500 although price and looks says the oposite.

 

[RichardHessels]

I also complained about the fact that the electro motors fanatecs 500 euro wheelbase are the same as you find in cheap toys and kitchen tools. These things where never made to function at nearly full power all the time.
Heck.. they don't even have real ballbearings or proper collectors (1 euro extra) .
While a proper electric motor would cost only about 5 euros more.

 

[RaceNut]

I also complained about the fact that the electro motors fanatecs 500 euro wheelbase are the same as you find in cheap toys and kitchen tools. These things where never made to function at nearly full power all the time.
Heck.. they don't even have real ballbearings or proper collectors (1 euro extra) .
While a proper electric motor would cost only about 5 euros more.

That seems to be true but, so far - there doesn't seem to be a bolt-on replacement with the right specs and better build quality, ball-bearings, more torque and better cooling in order to make a significant upgrade.

 

[mrbasher]

For the few that believe the motors used in Fanatec's wheels are something 'special'... I had a quote done through a large motor manufacturer in China not long ago for the exact motors used by Fanatec. The price is $1.80 at quantity 5000. (That's the minimum order) They'd then need to be shipped. On that note, remember the wheels are assembled in China, likely not far from where motors are made. So quantity order levels may not even apply.

Yes, $1.80 each. I managed to get them to send me 5 motors built to my spec for $10 each. Even then, that's only $10 each...

So the only thing special about them is that you can't find them. You can't find them because they are too slow to be used in much other than a printer or wheel.

Sorry to be a bit blunt about it but I know these things because I've checked into them personally.

Lastly, I've yet to a different motor model used all the way from Porsche 911 Turbo S wheel to CSW. (Excluding modded wheels) These are wheels I have personally inspected... Not photos of motors that are not even mounted in a wheel.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

Hard to believe things can be made so cheaply, I wonder how much my 2.5yr old G27 motor costs{no probs as yet}.......but the fact is, both TM and Fanatec wheels must have better motors than G27, which my understanding was a 10w motor vs 65w in T500 and CSW, vs the 160w in the ultra hexy servo wheels.

 

[Noel Spence]

Thanks again Mr basher for that part you sent me works very well with the club sport wheel, so what you think of the quality of this motor and its longevity

 

[mrbasher]

Hard to believe things can be made so cheaply, I wonder how much my 2.5yr old G27 motor costs{no probs as yet}.......but the fact is, both TM and Fanatec wheels must have better motors than G27, which my understanding was a 10w motor vs 65w in T500 and CSW, vs the 160w in the ultra hexy servo wheels.

In the case of the Logitech and Fanatec wheels, the cost of the motor has little to do with their actual power. How powerful the motor is is more directly linked to its size, its winding configuration and the components driving it. (MOSFETs and power supply)

Motor longevity is more directly related to cost as is using the correct motor for the job, driving that motor correctly with appropriate supporting components and lastly proper cooling if necessary.

The Johnson brand motors used by Logitech likely aren't any more expensive. There isn't anything special about them either, except again, they are hard to find for the same reasons...

 

[mrbasher]

Thanks again Mr basher for that part you sent me works very well with the club sport wheel, so what you think of the quality of this motor and its longevity

Ah yes, glad it's still treating you well.

As for the motor, I'm not sure if you're referring to the T500 or Fanatec wheels. I will say that I spend a lot of time reading forums, listening to people, researching and answering questions through my site. In doing so, I have yet to hear of an issue with the motor in the T500. It has other issues surely. As far as the motor goes though... I'd have no fear of it going belly up.

Also, I gotta get to bed so no more posting from me tonight.