Tires confirmed for first 4 races

[Markus Neumann]

No he does not say harder. He says hard compund.

Why would he say that when comparing the two if the F1 tyre is actually harder?

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Why would he say that when comparing the two if the F1 tyre is actually harder?

I think you should ask him not me
It serves no purpose as a proof that´s all i´m saying.

I might be wrong but to prove me wrong we need more then a video saying they run a hard compound on road tires as i have explained before.
and with temps that are far lower then racing tires.

 

[Markus Neumann]

More sources:
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_do_race_cars_have_different_tires_to_normal_tires

Racecar tires use rubber that is much softer than rubber on cars. It is more like a soft rubber eraser than anything else, and very unlike the hard rubber found in passenger car tires.

http://f1weekends.com/post/12070052446/in-depth-tyres

The racing tyre is constructed from very soft rubber compounds which offer the best possible grip against the texture of the racetrack, but wear very quickly in the process.

 

[Metalfreaky]

Srry for still being OT , but I actually can't believe that a road tyre has a softer compound.

I'm sure the tyre construction of an F1 tyre is much stifer/stronger/harder but the compound itself is much softer.
Otherwise you could preheat a road tyre to it's operating temperature and it would be like glue.

If this would turn out to be wrong my whole life is a lie

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Not sure what you mean?

Otherwise you could preheat a road tyre to it's operating temperature and it would be like glue.

It would be easier to get heat into a road tire then a proper racing F1 slick.
It works at higher temps so you would think at a temp normal to a road tire the F1 tire has barely starting coming alive.

Heat = atoms/molecules moving around.

 

[Metalfreaky]

A softer compound basically means more grip. So if you're theory is right, that a road tyre has a softer compound than an F1 tyre, it would mean that a road tyre in its chemical operating window, would suddenly produce a huge amount of grip.

Besides a softer compound always means shorter lifespan.
So a road tyre (which normally lasts around 50.000km) in its operation window mounted on an F1 car driven at F1 speeds would suddenly last less then 120km?! (Let's just focus on the compund and ignore the structure).

Another thing is why should the ideal operating window of a road tyre be at 90-95°C (according to you) when it's driven at approx. 0°-50°C. Why would it be designed to run: a)outside that window all the time b) in a window with a margin of only 5°C?
Coudn't find a source about this but it's just not logical for me

 

[Ryan Mark Smith]

So there is still a track to me announced in April, anyone have an ideas what track and what tyres they might take there?

 

[Hampus Andersson]

A softer compound basically means more grip. So if you're theory is right, that a road tyre has a softer compound than an F1 tyre, it would mean that a road tyre in its chemical operating window, would suddenly produce a huge amount of grip.

Besides a softer compound always means shorter lifespan.
So a road tyre (which normally lasts around 50.000km) in its operation window mounted on an F1 car driven at F1 speeds would suddenly last less then 120km?! (Let's just focus on the compund and ignore the structure).

Another thing is why should the ideal operating window of a road tyre be at 90-95°C (according to you) when it's driven at approx. 0°-50°C. Why would it be designed to run: a)outside that window all the time b) in a window with a margin of only 5°C?
Coudn't find a source about this but it's just not logical for me

First paragraph:

That depends more on the tread pattern vs no tread pattern then simply temps.
A slick is incomparable to a treaded tire.

"Besides a softer compound always means shorter lifespan."

Yea, and that´s why a road tire would be turned to mush after one lap on an F1 car instead of a super soft tire.

Another thing is why should the ideal operating window of a road tyre be at 90-95°C (according to you) when it's driven at approx. 0°-50°C. Why would it be designed to run: a)outside that window all the time b) in a window with a margin of only 5°C?

ideal operating window is another thing. Producing the most grip is another.

Road tires are built to last, not produce peak performance.
90-95 degrees is where the tire will produce the most grip, that´s the transition phase if you will where the tire starts creating it´s magic.

Basically you have rubber and tarmac. At a certain temperature the highest friction occurs and it´s around that region for a road tire.
Higher for F1 tires.

 

[Karl Fuss]

http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=8100
In a nutshell: F1 tyres are much, much softer.

Edit: Also...

All of this makes complete sense. The link to the other forum conversation and the video all lead me to still believe that F1 tyres are a lot softer than regular road tyres.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Sent a tweet to Pirelli media a couple of hours ago. No response yet.
Will keep you posted.

 

[Xosé Estrada]

It was good as Pirelli going on aggressive approach.
but i think Australia mostly be a 2 stopper than a 3 stopper.

Yes if they keep it all the year, but they use to go more and more conservative towards the end, and that adulterates the competition.

 

[Metalfreaky]

Yea, and that´s why a road tire would be turned to mush after one lap on an F1 car instead of a super soft tire.

Why only on an F1 car?
If it is that soft, why would a it last 50.000km on a road car, but not even 1 lap on an F1 car?
Of course a F1 car would "use more rubber" but I highly doubt that it would use up that rubber 10.000 times faster, even in the peak performance window.
It's about the construction and not running out of rubber. The main difference here is 1g vs. 4-5g, which is mentioned in the video.

90-95 degrees is where the tire will produce the most grip, that´s the transition phase if you will where the tire starts creating it´s magic.

Do you have a source for that temperature window? Sadly, I couln't find any.

I really respect your technical input here on RD Hampus, but there is no way a road tyre has a softer compound.
I hope Pirelli will end this discussion

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Why only on an F1 car?
If it is that soft, why would a it last 50.000km on a road car, but not even 1 lap on an F1 car?

Because a road car tire does not experience temperatures even remotely close to what an F1 tire does, not to mention the G forces.
If you are lucky a road tire experiences around 1G, that´s a huge amount of difference in energy being put into the tire vs an F1 car that can generate 4-5G in lateral forces and 5-6 in longitudinal forces.

It´s a completely different ball game.

Of course a F1 car would "use more rubber" but I highly doubt that it would use up that rubber 10.000 times faster, even in the peak performance window.
It's about the construction and not running out of rubber. The main difference here is 1g vs. 4-5g, which is mentioned in the video.

Not only uses more rubber but puts in way way way more energy in the tire.
Max 1-2 laps if even that going hard in an F1 car with regular street tires.

Do you have a source for that temperature window? Sadly, I couln't find any.

Best is to ask Pirelli again, most tires are in that region. That´s where the rubber starts to transform.

I really respect your technical input here on RD Hampus, but there is no way a road tyre has a softer compound.
I hope Pirelli will end this discussion

I think it does, and not even in the same spectrum of scale.
But yes, waiting eagerly for the Pirelli tweet.

 

[Knut Omdal Tveito]

They also have some info on their official site:

The racing tyre is constructed from a blend of very soft, natural and synthetic rubber compounds which offer the best possible grip against the texture of the racetrack, but tend to wear very quickly in the process.

http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/understanding_the_sport/5283.html

 

[Metalfreaky]

If you are lucky a road tire experiences around 1G, that´s a huge amount of difference in energy being put into the tire vs an F1 car that can generate 4-5G in lateral forces and 5-6 in longitudinal forces.

It´s a completely different ball game.

Not only uses more rubber but puts in way way way more energy in the tire.
Max 1-2 laps if even that going hard in an F1 car with regular street tires.

Well, that is exactly what I was talking about.
The forces would destroy the road tyre because of its weaker construction and not because itsrubber is too soft and wouldn't last.
F1 tiers have a much stronger/stiffer construction because of the occurring forces but a much much softer compound to give maximum grip.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

Well, that is exactly what I was talking about.
The forces would destroy the road tyre because of its weaker construction and not because itsrubber is too soft and wouldn't last.
F1 tiers have a much stronger/stiffer construction because of the occurring forces but a much much softer compound to give maximum grip.

And that´s where we disagree

 

[sayonarap]

Melbourne and Bahrain will have interesting quali sessions, with that jump between prime and option.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

lol nice quote i got from them, just kept us in the mist even more

Hi, is an F1 tire a harder compound then a regular road tire? Even Super Soft?

No point in comparing the two; it is like apples and pears.

 

[ENDR]

You should've specified, that you're asking just about the rubber compound, not the overall structure of the tire.

 

[Hampus Andersson]

You should've specified, that you're asking just about the rubber compound, not the overall structure of the tire.

we are talking about the compound.

The structure of it we know is much much stiffer.
I have followed up with a question, see if i can drag it out of them.