Cars Tatra 603-2 B5 Marathon 1.2

[Fuzo]

I am really deeply sorry and quite discusted that it came to this level. To make things clear - we have never refused any help from a person who acts as normal polite person would, like I have never refused to help or to share my 3d moddeling know-how recently, because I simply like to help people, but I would never push anybody to accept my help because I think I know better. If someone thinks we don't care about physics, we actualy do. And when we say we won't guarantee accuracy it doesn't mean we don't care as well! We had a lot of help from some estabilished modders in the beginning and they told us back then "sometimes you need to do compromises". And in the beginning we had quite luck to have real drivers and people who had actualy driven those cars in real life as a testers. When we used available data, particulary in Octavia Cup, the vehicle felt off for them, we had to fiddle with stuff to make it feel more closer to their feedback. And that's the story with dampers I guess. Maybe we could have done it differently, but we had limited knowledge back then. Anyways, we did 2 seasons with it with 50+ drivers on the grid (for us quite achievement) and even real Octavia Cup drivers were present and nobody complained about the car behavior, quite the oposite. Since then, It was used in SRS system, biggest Polish simracing community used it for their championship, we were happy, people were happy, except one guy I guess. And that's all what I wanted to say about it all.

We got quite off topic here, so please, from now on, use this thread as it should be used and if someone has some issues with me personally or my modding team, please use personal messages. Even though my English is not perfect I understand it quite well and I am opened to discussion. Please keep this place to discuss the issues with the mod, not to judge our behavior and knowledge analysis or something similar. Tatra will receive physics update soon with some additional fixes for issues we found. And remember, If you don't like a mod, don't use it and move along. Is it simple as that. HOWGH!

 

[Kyuubeey]

Okay, fair. All I can tell you is that not everyone knows what they are talking about. Either you misunderstood, or you got told false information when you got told that you need to compromise when it comes to damper curves. Like I said it's *likely* from packers, or bumpstops. Almost no-one who mods AC understands how the packer even works without being explained and they're often wrongly placed; it's okay, just ask.

My issue was that your physics guy back then was too inexperienced to even know what he is doing wrong, and he still argued it. The same thing happened with this car. You took a different opinion as being impolite and immediately dismissed it even when it had stronger basis than your argument, which is just crazy to me. This time I'm pissed off because the stupidity still continues, so if you want to put some effort into at least fixing your warped perception, then I can apologize. But I won't apologize for the criticism of your methodology, only for the wording.


My suggestion is still to open my Singer and take a good look at the rear suspension and copy it if you want. If you can find some more detailed data (I couldn't) then it would be possible to design an unique one, but well you work with what you have. Ask all the questions you want and I'll answer of course.

For the front, connect the STRUT_TYRE to the same point as the lower balljoint, because that's how MacPherson works. Then increase the relaxation length in the tires a little (To around 0.090 is a good start I think) and make the DX/DY same front and rear. Make the bump damping slightly digressive, and make the rebound linear. That will already improve the car significantly.

 

[bendymo]

You didn't understand it from the beginning, the car shouldn't be perfect, but as it really was.

 

[jlnprssnr]

He also wants to help them make it like it was. The laws of physics won't allow the real car's suspension to have less camber on compression. It probably also didn't have better tyres than some modern race cars

 

[Kyuubeey]

You didn't understand it from the beginning, the car shouldn't be perfect, but as it really was.

Alright, then tell me what's wrong with my understanding of trailing arms and MacPherson? Tell me how curves and roll center are derived in a trailing arm, and how the steering axis is defined in a strut. Go ahead.

Harder =/= realistic. The current tire and suspension behavior ranges from from "unlikely" to "impossible".

 

[bendymo]

If you want to help someone against their will, you are actually doing them wrong!

 

[Kyuubeey]

If you want to help someone against their will, you are actually doing them wrong!

Hm yes, because everyone is omnipotent and knows what they really want and what is best for them. Any more low level arguments?

 

[Fuzo]

Hm yes, because everyone is omnipotent and knows what they really want and what is best for them. Any more low level arguments?

you will never stop, won't you?

 

[bendymo]

I'm not arguing You still don't understand, you're wasting time, goodbye

 

[Weron323]

Hm yes, because everyone is omnipotent and knows what they really want and what is best for them. Any more low level arguments?

Arch stop .... Im working on it ... When I come home Im gonna send you reworked data to PM and I have few questions for you. Just chill

 

[Kyuubeey]

Arch stop .... Im working on it ... When I come home Im gonna send you reworked data to PM and I have few questions for you. Just chill

That was my goal. Very nice that we could come to a solution that will benefit everyone.

There's a bit of a lack of data on the car so I really can't advise on specific design choices, you should know better about that, but I can give you a baseline to work off-of in terms of just general mechanics. Of course like I said you can use whatever of my stuff you want.

I think load curves will also benefit the car once the tires are modified a little. If you want I can share you some information and assist in that.

It's too much to post about here so best take it to a PM, then.

 

[AccAkut]

you will never stop, won't you?

no worries, he was the same 6 years ago I'll never forget "just translate the Multilink to DWB, easy"

 

[Kyuubeey]

no worries, he was the same 6 years ago I'll never forget "just translate the Multilink to DWB, easy"

Hey, it hasn't changed; just graph out all of the curves, then somehow maintain all of them with DWB! Easy!

I think my point was: please don't just copy the points in. It didn't work for me then, not now. Now when I've made some more ML -> DWB, I believe it even more so.

I think at some point I argued the Porsche should use DWB and not ML; but actually now when we know that packers in setup fixes that issue with ML and makes them work again, I think it is probably okay. I'm still not inclined to use ML simply because sometimes the setup decides to go way out of bounds. So; just translate the Multilink to DWB, easy.

 

[Kyuubeey]

Oh, I'd forgotten what Tatra uses for their rears. It's a....swing axle! Not trailing! My apologies.

It should drive like ****; but for a different reason. Weron showed me pics of a WIP and I think it's generally in the right direction, compared to this 1.01.

I actually did make a Tatra 87 myself some time ago which has a somewhat similar rear IIRC, so I'll open up my backup and see if it's in there.

 

[Jeremy Chaim]

Jeremy Chaim there might be some "issues" with the sound when AC tries to apply the reverb effect, but we set the levels as we thought it should be right, that car's noise was in fact compared to Spitfire airplanes, but I understand that someone can see it a little loud or off, so for this case you can either play with your volume settings in AC or open ext_config.ini in extension directory and there is a section for audio and you can set the audio levels there and you don't need to mess with your AC settings. But you have to have CSP for this to work.

this was actually my own fault. (accidentally had stupid dolby surround effect turned on for my headset)

 

[Kyuubeey]

Car's progressing really nicely due to adequate resources (Even though still limited) and we're pretty satisfied. I think this one'll make it into "must download" category soon.

 

[Fuzo]

Car's progressing really nicely due to adequate resources (Even though still limited) and we're pretty satisfied. I think this one'll make it into "must download" category soon.

I tried the WIP version yesterday and I have to say that you guys - @Weron323 and @Kyuubeey - did very good job. I am once again sorry about all the drama around it but it seems that something very positive will come out of it in the end .

 

[AccAkut]

I tried the WIP version yesterday and I have to say that you guys - @Weron323 and @Kyuubeey - did very good job. I am once again sorry about all the drama around it but it seems that something very positive will come out of it in the end .

don't we all like a happy ending

 

[Kyuubeey]

Current version is even better. It's kinda ironic how well this car can be made to work with AC.

There's a lack of data so some things are guesstimated, but a lot of the implementation is doable and it seems to drive very correctly. Just a little more patience as there is a bit more work to do.

 

[Fuzo]

Fuzo updated Tatra 603-2 B5 Marathon with a new update entry:

Update 1.1

Updates and fixes in version 1.1:

• physics vastly reworked to make it closer to real counterpart ( thx. Arch/Kyuubeey )
• number plate appears as a sticker now (it has its own texture now)
• some material and mesh fixed as suggested by x4fab
• Added one new skin (Nr. 44)

Read the rest of this update entry...