Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[SafetyThird]

The seat pad likely has Dayton pucks. If you or a friend are handy,
fabricating something like that is quite doable. See:

I’m pretty handy at making and fabricating. I’ll do a Bit more research, thanks.

 

[SafetyThird]

Given the 300-odd pages of the thread, is there a best place to start reading? I’m sure there’s been many developments and things learned and discarded along the way, I figured there must be some consensus on what works best these days for your typical extrusion based rig.

 

[stigs2cousin]

If you are interested in the High(est) End of things Peter has a extremely well structured Rig Report that is also interesting for basic concepts:

Rig Report - Peter Winkler

Dear All, since some years i am well known by sharing my DIY hobbies across different platforms. I started to write german posts to share my experiences to help others enjoying our great spare time. 10y ago i posted my first DIY report showing my slotcar track - today i have already 50 pages...

www.racedepartment.com

I know the feeling about the long and cluttered thread, may search it for the topics you need!?!

MFG Carsten

 

[blekenbleu]

Super pucks
I read about these a week ago and apologize for lack of attribution; they arrived today.
Their design is somewhat similar to Dayton pucks, but twice as thick and heavier.

Weirdly, their armature appears to be located only by thin clear plastic outer shell;
long-term reliability is questionable. They mass about 385gm.
If mounted using those three flange tabs, they would behave like shakers or pucks.
The center bolt should still be installed, to clamp that armature to the clear shells.
If instead mounted by the (10mm) center bolt, these act like exciters.

Being larger and heavier than Dayton's pucks or exciters,
but smaller than most other bass shakers, these should fit beneath my office chair,
and a pair or two should deliver enough tactile energy to make curbs felt.

IMO, that 10mm center bolt is overkill for mounting,
but adds useful mass for puck duty.
The center hole will be sleeved down to 6mm or so for my application.

 

[Deleted member 1066209]

@blekenbleu

Wow, what a neat find! And the price is extremely attractive, too. Please provide an update about their performance! I'm especially interested in how they compare to a regular puck.

 

[Ruttman98]

I bought a set of four: ten more sets left!

 

[blekenbleu]

update about their performance

Do not hold your breath; I am knee deep head first in a programming project
and must also work on income taxes.
Mine will eventually be deployed in a configuration unrelated to e.g. extrusion chassis.
With more mass and less power than Dayton DAEX32EP-4 Thrusters,
they should be less exciting but more effective on larger masses.
Low frequency tactile stimulation wants exciter mass comparable to driven mass;
driving 4 in parallel should amount to about 1kg of exciter mass.

 

[SafetyThird]

Been doing a bunch of reading on here and absorbing info as much as I can. I now have a set of isolators that @AndrewWOT recommended on their way to me. I've also just scored a 5.1 channel digital amp that runs 80-100 watt/channel from Facebook marketplace for very little money. I already have simhub that I'm using with the wind sim I built last week so it's now time to start buying tactile bits. I'd appreciate any help you might be able to offer in answer to the questions.

Question 1. The Startechch 7.1 external USB sound card has been mentioned on here, does anyone know if you can send a digital (optical or coax) output from it to an AV amp or if you have to cable the individual channels separately? The amp I'm getting has individual inputs but a single cable would be neater.

Question 2. The old Cobra seat I'm currently using has a tubular metal frame with a mesh sort of trampoline base so I can't attach transducers to the underside of it there so I'm thinking I'd need to mount the seat on a plate and mount the transducers to the plate. How big a difference is there between something like the BST-1 and BST-2 in felt performance? Is a single transducer enough or would two smaller ones give better options. The seat sliders will be on isolators so hopefully most of the energy will go into the seat and not the rig frame.

Question 3. The sides of the seat are fabric over an empty space between the frame members so I can't add transducers to the sides. The back of the seat has a wooden panel in the back area that's just 20cm wide and 50cm high. That probably won't give me enough separation for left and right channels to feel very different. Would I be better going for a couple of transducers vertically or would 4 of the smaller exciters give enough separation to be felt distinctly?

And finally, Question 5. For the pedals ( have VRS pedals ) would I be better with a smaller exciter like the Dayton DAEX30HESF 4 or something a bit larger such as the TT-25. I realise one's a transducer and the other an exciter, but I expect these to run at low power, would one be felt better in that situation than the other?

Thanks very much.

 

[blekenbleu]

does anyone know if you can send a digital (optical or coax) output from it to an AV amp or if you have to cable the individual channels separately? The amp I'm getting has individual inputs but a single cable would be neater.

I know that, without a rare proprietary driver, Windows since 7 will send no more than 2 channels over S/PDIF, either optical or wire, but will over HDMI,
provided that HDMI receiver supports multichannel uncompressed digital audio.

I'm thinking I'd need to mount the seat on a plate

Far better to put a cushion with pucks on the seat, like SRS ShakeKit.

For the pedals ( have VRS pedals ) would I be better with a smaller exciter like the Dayton DAEX30HESF 4 or something a bit larger such as the TT-25.

The puck is no more massive than the exciter, and less of a puck's mass is shaking.
Neither IMO delivers satisfying tactile energy with high force on a brake pedal.
These "super pucks" may be too large for closely spaced pedals.

 

[Ruttman98]

My "super pucks" arrived promptly on Monday.

Well packaged, but when I opened them and detected a slight nicotine like smell.

Have not had an opportunity to try them out.

 

[SafetyThird]

I know that, without a rare proprietary driver, Windows since 7 will send no more than 2 channels over S/PDIF, either optical or wire, but will over HDMI,
provided that HDMI receiver supports multichannel uncompressed digital audio.

ah, that’s interesting, thanks very much. I may experiment with hdmi but will start with standard connections

Far better to put a cushion with pucks on the seat, like SRS ShakeKit.

just been reading through your write up on making your own version of the shake kit and think I’ll go that route for a 4 channel cushion and perhaps two on the back of the seat, makes for a reasonably easy to put together option, particularly as the seat is old and the padding needs replacing really.

The puck is no more massive than the exciter, and less of a puck's mass is shaking.
Neither IMO delivers satisfying tactile energy with high force on a brake pedal.
These "super pucks" may be too large for closely spaced pedals.

thank you, perhaps I’ll just get a single exciter to experiment with and try it on each pedal in turn.

thanks again for the advice, looks like the next couple of weeks will involve plenty of DIY.

 

[SafetyThird]

The Dayton pucks arrived today so tonight was time for some testing. All 6 of the pucks work which was a relief after reading about folks having several DOA. The amp that I’ve picked up turns out to only be able to switch into 6 channel mode via the remote, which the seller didn’t have. Can’t find one on eBay and there don’t seem to be any universal ones that have the correct codes. Seller says he’ll take it back but that’s another round trip I could do without And I have to start looking for another amp.

simhub is now seeing the sound card as having 8 channels after I downloaded new drivers which is good. Next it’s time to start cutting 4 holes into the seat base cushion and make a new cushion for the back with the other two pucks in it. Two steps forward, one step back.

 

[TheCheeseMeister]

Hey all, I finally just about "finished" my rig! cough.. for now.
The last step is my amplifiers for transducers

Right now all of my transducers are installed on the rig, and are all being driven off of an onkyo TX-RZ3100 AVR because I had it lying around after the HDMI board died, its really only good for audio passthrough. I notice the lag quite a bit as it is an AVR, I would like some input on a couple of amplifier options if you all would be so kind, I have been reading for hours and am particularly lost on my Dayton Audio TT25, and 1 BST-1.

So rig setup:
Corners: 4x Buttkicker Advanced BK4-4
Pedals: Heusinkveld ultimate+ with 3x Dayton Audio TT25
Shifter Arm: 1x Dayton audio BST-1

currently I am thinking 2x Behringer nx3000D's for the 4 BK4's
the 3x TT25's and 1 BST-1 I was looking at 2x Nobsound NS-20G 200W??

The nobsound says it has a DSP, but I am having difficulty finding configuration info about it.

Like I said, the rig is done and everything is installed, I just need advice on the amps I think.

Thanks!

 

[stigs2cousin]

Are you shure the lag is from the AV receiver?

I ask because I use an old Yamaha for the same purpose and don´t feel any lag worth mentioning.
Mine is wired over an external USB soundcard via 3,5 to cynch cables.

Maybe connect just two tactile channels via cynch to check if the lag persists, than you´d have proof that some digital machinations are going on.

Several people here use AV receivers for tactile, but with the old analog jacks.:

 

[karloy]

I am looking to upgrade my haptics, this research is definitely one of the hardest so far, thanks to the deep thoughts of this mega thread .

Right now, I have a Buttkicker Gamer 2 connected to a NLR v3 via the mount, and 4 Dayton pucks - 2 under the seat left and right, two under the pedal plate. Under the seat I can differentiate between left and right, but front pedal I can't.

The Daytons came from my previous setup where priority was low vibration/noise, so it wasn't necessarily designed like this on purpose and I am trying to upgrade.

Considering 3 options:

Option 1 - "Go big and really expensive"

Seat:
Move the 4 Dayton pucks to the back of the seat
Remote the Buttkicker Gamer 2
Add a TST429
Add a ButtKicker LFE
Find a suitable mount (TBD, recommendations?)

Pedal plate:
Add TST329
Add ButtKicker BK-CT

2x NX3000

Option 2 - "Re-use and a bit cheaper"

Seat:
Move the 4 Dayton pucks to the back of the seat
Keep the Buttkicker Gamer 2 with the amplifier
Add a TST429
Find a suitable mount

Pedal plate:
Add TST329

1x NX3000


Option 3 - "Go cheap and turnkey, anything is better than the 4 Dayton pucks.."

Move the 4 Dayton pucks to the back of the seat
Keep the Buttkicker Gamer 2 with the amplifier
Buy the Dayton Audio BSA-200 Amp with 4 Aura Pro Bass Shakers Bundle.
Two under the seat, two under the front pedals
Find a suitable mount

Thoughts?

 

[TheCheeseMeister]

Are you shure the lag is from the AV receiver?

I ask because I use an old Yamaha for the same purpose and don´t feel any lag worth mentioning.
Mine is wired over an external USB soundcard via 3,5 to cynch cables.

Maybe connect just two tactile channels via cynch to check if the lag persists, than you´d have proof that some digital machinations are going on.

Several people here use AV receivers for tactile, but with the old analog jacks.:

View attachment 644960

so I would love to do this, but this AXR only has the full support for optical in (not an option in my case because of the amount of necessary 8 inputs) or HDMI, I don't have analog inputs for 8 channels. I would like to get away from the HDMI audio I am currently because of the ghost screen problem I keep having. windows sees the AVR as a 4th screen, but like I said the HDMI output died.
The other idea could be, If I can get the BK4's off to another amp where they would get enough power, maybe the 4 smaller shakers could stay on the AVR via optical? that may get rid of the lag and ghost screen on the HDMI??

hmm.

 

[stigs2cousin]

I didn´t express it well, but using 2 analog channels was meant as a test whether the lag stems from the digital section of your AV receiver.

There are reasons that most builds here (even the most highend ones) go with analog connections.
After swapping PS4 for PC Iquickly abandoned the idea of reusing the HDMI connection because of hardware and software limitations.

A search should give you plenty to read....

 

[stigs2cousin]

I am looking to upgrade my haptics, this research is definitely one of the hardest so far, thanks to the deep thoughts of this mega thread .

Right now, I have a Buttkicker Gamer 2 connected to a NLR v3 via the mount, and 4 Dayton pucks - 2 under the seat left and right, two under the pedal plate. Under the seat I can differentiate between left and right, but front pedal I can't.

The Daytons came from my previous setup where priority was low vibration/noise, so it wasn't necessarily designed like this on purpose and I am trying to upgrade.

Considering 3 options:

Option 1 - "Go big and really expense"

Seat:
Move the 4 Dayton pucks to the back of the seat
Remote the Buttkicker Gamer 2
Add a TST429
Add a ButtKicker LFE
Find a suitable mount (TBD, recommendations?)

Pedal plate:
Add TST329
Add ButtKicker BK-CT

2x NX3000

Option 2 - "Re-use and a bit cheaper"

Seat:
Move the 4 Dayton pucks to the back of the seat
Keep the Buttkicker Gamer 2 with the amplifier
Add a TST429
Find a suitable mount

Pedal plate:
Add TST329

1x NX3000


Option 3 - "Go cheap and turnkey, anything is better than the 4 Dayton pucks.."

Move the 4 Dayton pucks to the back of the seat
Keep the Buttkicker Gamer 2 with the amplifier
Buy the Dayton Audio BSA-200 Amp with 4 Aura Pro Bass Shakers Bundle.
Two under the seat, two under the front pedals
Find a suitable mount

Thoughts?

Option5:

Pucks,/TST/ BK LFE to the seat;

BK Gamer to the pedal deck

read up on isolation, both seat and pedal deck will need it

 

[OlaGB]

I am looking to upgrade my haptics, this research is definitely one of the hardest so far, thanks to the deep thoughts of this mega thread .

Right now, I have a Buttkicker Gamer 2 connected to a NLR v3 via the mount, and 4 Dayton pucks - 2 under the seat left and right, two under the pedal plate. Under the seat I can differentiate between left and right, but front pedal I can't.

The Daytons came from my previous setup where priority was low vibration/noise, so it wasn't necessarily designed like this on purpose and I am trying to upgrade.

Considering 3 options:

Option 1 - "Go big and really expensive"

Seat:
Move the 4 Dayton pucks to the back of the seat
Remote the Buttkicker Gamer 2
Add a TST429
Add a ButtKicker LFE
Find a suitable mount (TBD, recommendations?)

Pedal plate:
Add TST329
Add ButtKicker BK-CT

2x NX3000

Option 2 - "Re-use and a bit cheaper"

Seat:
Move the 4 Dayton pucks to the back of the seat
Keep the Buttkicker Gamer 2 with the amplifier
Add a TST429
Find a suitable mount

Pedal plate:
Add TST329

1x NX3000


Option 3 - "Go cheap and turnkey, anything is better than the 4 Dayton pucks.."

Move the 4 Dayton pucks to the back of the seat
Keep the Buttkicker Gamer 2 with the amplifier
Buy the Dayton Audio BSA-200 Amp with 4 Aura Pro Bass Shakers Bundle.
Two under the seat, two under the front pedals
Find a suitable mount

Thoughts?

Definently option 1 if budget allows. And find a good way to isolate seat and pedalboard from the rig, like racebass or similar springs.
If tight budget, you can wait with the LFE on pedals.
This is an awsome combination of shakers, which the high end effects is made for these days.

 

[No Depth]

I am looking to upgrade my haptics, this research is definitely one of the hardest so far, thanks to the deep thoughts of this mega thread .

Right now, I have a Buttkicker Gamer 2 connected to a NLR v3 via the mount, and 4 Dayton pucks - 2 under the seat left and right, two under the pedal plate. Under the seat I can differentiate between left and right, but front pedal I can't.

The Daytons came from my previous setup where priority was low vibration/noise, so it wasn't necessarily designed like this on purpose and I am trying to upgrade.

Considering 3 options:

Option 1 - "Go big and really expensive"

Seat:
Move the 4 Dayton pucks to the back of the seat
Remote the Buttkicker Gamer 2
Add a TST429
Add a ButtKicker LFE
Find a suitable mount (TBD, recommendations?)

Pedal plate:
Add TST329
Add ButtKicker BK-CT

2x NX3000

Option 2 - "Re-use and a bit cheaper"

Seat:
Move the 4 Dayton pucks to the back of the seat
Keep the Buttkicker Gamer 2 with the amplifier
Add a TST429
Find a suitable mount

Pedal plate:
Add TST329

1x NX3000


Option 3 - "Go cheap and turnkey, anything is better than the 4 Dayton pucks.."

Move the 4 Dayton pucks to the back of the seat
Keep the Buttkicker Gamer 2 with the amplifier
Buy the Dayton Audio BSA-200 Amp with 4 Aura Pro Bass Shakers Bundle.
Two under the seat, two under the front pedals
Find a suitable mount

Thoughts?

Do you plan to keep the NLRv3? I used to have an identical setup, and the issue with running bigger shakers is clearance. The NLRv3 wont afford much space under your seat for a TST or larger BK’s without requiring some real clever DIY mounting solutions(some have successfully done it, but access to machinery and fab tools will be needed).

Some of your options may work, but just be mindful of measuring clearance for any device and movement of the pivot arms of the V3. It’s not so simple a replacement.

One quick option is replacing the BK Gamer 2 with the newer “BK Pro”. It’s essentially a more powerful version of the Gamer 2 introduced last year(essentially a BK Advance in terms of power) and still uses a similar mounting arm that can fit on the NLRv3 while upping the power a bit. Quick and easy minor upgrade.

Personally I now have a TST and BK LFE under my seat(no more V3, but I went big and got a D-Box) and it is a noticeable improvement but it lacks the directional feeling I had wth the four corner pucks. Have even debated adding those back in under or behind the seat for certain effects. But ultimately it’s not a big deal and moving them to the back of the seat may still offer that. Im currently deciding on bavk of seat options myself. Maybe exciters.