Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[Mr Latte]

@White Hawk
This thread contains too many varied topics. So I am going to cover that amp and why the exciters are one of the best ways to get into tactile. Not just because they are cheap but they will impress people with how strong certain frequencies they can output when directly mounted to the seat.

Additionally, why anyone with tactile should consider them is because they can work well beyond 150Hz and 200Hz much better than most budget tactile options and even including Buttkickers. These high frequencies are hard to feel when tactile is mounted in corners or at sides of a seat and them having to penetrate through seat padding/cushioning etc. Our backs and shoulders are sensitive to vibration so they are ideal in this regard for what they can bring and they do bring additional detailing, sparkle and added zing, which is great for some effects and in particular much more lively engines.

Those exciters use 3M backing, no-drill, no holes needed. Ive not had a problem with them falling off but trying to remove them and re-stick them isnt so easy. The residue wipes off so it won't damage a seat either. The amp has noisy fans with bad fan-whine and it irritated the heck out of me.

You want a minimum of 4 units, keep in mind the more units we have the more effects we can incorporate better into the seat. To be honest with testing and trials I see the potential for 2 of these amps and 2 sets of 4 units being optional for the back of the seat. This will be covered in detail in that thread.

Affordable soundcard that works well is the Asus DGX. Simhub works with USB no problems and is not limited to the number of soundcards or channels used. It also lets us map effects to ANY channels and these be saved in profiles. So its possible with the same unit installation to have very different arrangements in what effects are active on what channels. This is one of the great things with Simhub over other solutions.

 

[Mr Latte]

I had already decided on 8 conductor cables with 8 pole speak-on connectors. Great idea! I'm putting together a shopping list now.

Most 8 conductor cable seems to be 18 Gauge which I assume is fine for the exciters, But I'm looking for 14 gauge for the LFE's. This seems very hard to locate! I did find some 13 / 12 gauge multi conductor on eBay in expensive big bulk rolls. The 8 pole speak-on plugs and connectors are easier to source thank goodness.

I opted for Van Damme PRO speaker cable.
I got some 2 and 8 core to try, not used yet.


Its tough but flexible and its price won't knock you out (lol)

See Here

 

[White Hawk]

I opted for Van Damme PRO speaker cable.
I got some 2 and 8 core to try, not used yet.


Its tough but flexible and its price won't knock you out (lol)

See Here

Mmmm, I don’t know about that cable, years later I might find my tactile feedback doesn’t work any more because it decided to do adverts for light beer.

 

[White Hawk]

@White Hawk
This thread contains too many varied topics. So I am going to cover that amp and why the exciters are one of the best ways to get into tactile. Not just because they are cheap but they will impress people with how strong certain frequencies they can output when directly mounted to the seat.

Additionally, why anyone with tactile should consider them is because they can work well beyond 150Hz and 200Hz much better than most budget tactile options and even including Buttkickers. These high frequencies are hard to feel when tactile is mounted in corners or at sides of a seat and them having to penetrate through seat padding/cushioning etc. Our backs and shoulders are sensitive to vibration so they are ideal in this regard for what they can bring and they do bring additional detailing, sparkle and added zing, which is great for some effects and in particular much more lively engines.

Those exciters use 3M backing, no-drill, no holes needed. Ive not had a problem with them falling off but trying to remove them and re-stick them isnt so easy. The residue wipes off so it won't damage a seat either. The amp has noisy fans with bad fan-whine and it irritated the heck out of me.

You want a minimum of 4 units, keep in mind the more units we have the more effects we can incorporate better into the seat. To be honest with testing and trials I see the potential for 2 of these amps and 2 sets of 4 units being optional for the back of the seat. This will be covered in detail in that thread.

Affordable soundcard that works well is the Asus DGX. Simhub works with USB no problems and is not limited to the number of soundcards or channels used. It also lets us map effects to ANY channels and these be saved in profiles. So its possible with the same unit installation to have very different arrangements in what effects are active on what channels. This is one of the great things with Simhub over other solutions.

Thanks for the info, how about noise from those exciters on a bucket seat, a lot of the time I can only sim at night so I can’t disturb family in other rooms.

 

[Mr Latte]

Some effects that generate harmonics can create hum tones but its not hard to reduce individual effect layers or disable them. So yes you could find a general output volume and arrangement with the effects you want to feel but use in a midnight mode scenario. Of course you could then save that as a profile as well.

Different seat materials may create reverberations with different frequencies but I have come up with solutions for audio sweeps and test-tones that work via the RPM and Gear Shift that could aid installing and configuring.

As an example, 2am here, people asleep in adjacent rooms, I just finished a 2 hour test session.

 

[Spinelli]

@Spinelli
You have 8020 so it's easy to experiment with placement even if you're not seeking optimal installation just yet or using isolation. Some people use profile cut-offs for the BK's legs just spacing them far enough apart.

What amps have you got, what effects interest you or do you want to try?

I have 2x 3000 DSP Behringers and 1x 1000 DSP. I currently have nine transducers: 4x CS Platinum, 2x BK LFE, 2x BK Concert, 1x BK Advance. I know I only have enough amps for 6 transducers at the moment but that's no a problem as I'll buy more amps if I decide to go with a setup consisting of more than 6 transducers. I'll worry about that later, for now I just want to experiment with 1 or 2 simultaneous transducers, with moving them around to different locations, comparing the CS to the BK, comparing the LFE/Concert to the Advance. Once I do that, then I'll also experiment with isolators (I have cheap puck ones as well as expensive, heavy duty bracket-style ones as shown in my previous post's pic).

The effects I'm 100% interested in are big bumps as well as the smaller often re-occuring bumps to give a more physically connected feel, to give more "road noise" (SimCommander calls these settings road bumps, suspension bumps, vertical texture, and vertical surge I believe). Also, engine RPM. I'll experiment with other settings like front and rear grip-loss and maybe others like lateral G's and gear-changes but my Next Level Motion v3 handles G-forces and gear-changes (gear-changes from vehicle's longitudinal g-forces, not a canned gearchange effect) so I'm not too concerned with lateral G's and gear-change. Most important are big bumps, "road noise," and engine RPM.

 

[Mr Latte]

@Spinelli that is a serious collection of hardware and you also have the DSP based amps.
It would be excellent to share findings with you and us opt for our own personal preferences based on what solutions we prefer using.

You not only have excellent tuning options but also have great immersion potential with it too. The TST can handle nice detail with the higher frequencies. Generally, I found around 60Hz they start to outshine the BK models and for several effects detail in the mid-upper bass region is important.

Comparisons between the CRT / LFE were not ideal for me on the previous build and tests as each was not installed in the same place and way. Also as one is 2ohm and the other 4ohm it makes it harder to compare with similar output capacity and volumes. For me, it needs closer in-depth comparison and something I want to re-look at.

Buttkicker do reference that the Concert is more musically tuned for better 40Hz mid-range and LFE is more tuned for movies and subwoofer type bass below the audible range of 20Hz. I am leaning towards using the CRT for engines and additional units for Lat G then using LFE combined with the TST 429 to operate for Bumps. The exciters can be used to further extend detailing of various effects up the back of the seat.

Superior Stereo Positioning
As a concept to consider and test but only one of many possibilities:

Large Bumps = LFE with the additional response via "Lower Spine" installed exciters
Medium Bumps = TST 429 with the additional response via "Sides" installed exciters
Small Bumps = "Shoulder" installed exciters

Note:
This is FIVE units with roles working together per side delivering stereo effects to the whole body.
(It is not 5 units outputting the same thing)

The sensitivity and operation of each bump role can be tailored. You made reference to aspects like road surfaces and avoiding a scenario that all bumps feel alike. This approach goes beyond a single layer/effect and only amplitude altering the variation felt between the size of the bumps. This was a limitation of SSW with its basic controls.

I recently shared an early w.i.p set of bump effects in the Discord that work in this way. Users can place all layers to output over a single unit or if have more split the small/med/large bumps to individual units. Creating effects to work in this way takes time and needs testing by people but its nearly impossible to get feedback, which frankly sucks.


Output Efficiency & Fidelity
I have put a lot of thought into how the tactile is installed, a simple question to ask ourselves is how do we ensure the energy from these goes UP into the seat and is maintained but limits or reduces the energy that goes DOWN away from the seat and into the frame of the rig. Many builds I have looked at do not deal with this factor as well as possible. For me, a large part of the performance in the tactile is all part of controlling the path the tactile can or will take and how we best use body zones. For almost 2 years I have been testing different ideas and options. There is a difference I would say to add tactile to a rig and building a rig for tactile. This is something my own build should highlight when it is eventually being pieced together.


Important - New Possibilities
Simhub totally changed the possibilities with its updated options for routing effects and the ability to have no limits on the number of channels or soundcards used. When we compare Simvibe in this regard its Output Manager for channel control was very limited. I had to duplicate channels and use crossover control to achieve Dual Role so that each unit (LFE/TST) only got the Hz set via the DSP from the original effect.

Now in Simhub, we can send whatever effects to any channel with zero limitations and we can have specific layers for effects made for the individual roles and installed tactile units are given. This means we can apply different methods in effects creation and how they are distributed without having to alter the actual installation. I don't think most people yet realise the significance of this over Simvibe and what it enables in effects creation and control via saved profiles.

Output Performance - Low Mid High
My advice for you at the moment is to get and test some of those exciters to use with what you have. Generally speaking, if you do then in hardware terms you have the best performances covered for Low / Mid / High bass frequencies.

With these installed we then make them work together thus exceeding the potential any single unit achieves on its own or can manage when only installed in a single location. We use multiple units for specific roles and these chosen for providing peak performance in each frequency range.

This helps enable we are outputting effects via the best-suited units and into multiple body regions. Both elements offering a HUGE difference in potential immersion and quality of experience for the user to what typical installations can achieve.

You have my word on that based on what I have studied and learned but proof for you/others is in the testing and trying for yourselves.

I am curious but not convinced that motion cant also benefit from tactile immersion for effects you referenced. For example, Lat G or Gear changes. With motion, these are often repeated in the same manner with different cars. With tactile we can totally change the feeling and character of the sensation for different cars if desired. Sure it's not something I see anyone really attempting to do but this partly as I believe to do it convincingly is more possible with this multiple unit and body zone approach.

Wish you well with the installing and tests.

 

[ShinyAndy]

.

 

[Ginetta]

I've appreciated all the information on this thread. Like some of the recent posters, I too have a Simlab P1 80/20 rig waiting for assembly and I am interested in adding tactile. I was originally planning on starting with a BK advance (or LFE) under the seat and a BK advance at the pedals, but it seems like some go with an Advance and an ADX Maximus instead. Is this due to the different competencies for each from a range perspective? I believe I read that the Maximus is a bit better for mid ranges? From a goals perspective on my end, i'd like to get two units to start (likely in EM) and then expand later down the road with a CM solution.

 

[boern69]

I will make some pics of the whole rig and try to show angle points
where the dumpers are placed.
One is under the seat and the other 2 are at the front (moved light to the middle) ->TRIANGLE
2 help pumpers are place before the seat (moved to the middle)

I still have no experience with making layers or uploading -
but THX for the layers u made so far an uploaded on discord!

my setting I showed is default so nothing special

I will make a video to show the rockwood shaker in action
I have six units now mounted and they are doing a great job in the low frequencies

I bought a usb sound card for connecting 4 more shakers I bought those->
https://www.intertechnik.de/shop/lautsprecher/exciter/tt25-8-puck_1768,de,7052,150446

I will try mount them to my seat with 3M (nice idea) and run them in parallel (2) to get 4ohm
After this I can try to test urs layers

BK LFE + amp is still on my list when I have the money together

beside this I found a motion system
for me its not affordable yet (2900€) but it looks nice imo
https://simrig.se/order-now/#step-motion-choice
A friend of mine saw this on the simexpo 2019 and was quite impressed
but it can only move 175kg ->this could be a problem

 

[Mr Latte]

@boern69

As your rig seems quite different, its best to start your own thread for your build, this way it can highlight your own creativity and the approach you are taking. Then you can also go into more detail with more images about it, why you are doing things the way you are and those interested in copying these ideas can also get involved.

I would like to see you test the units with a crossover to properly determine their ability with low frequencies as its a bit misleading if you keep stating they are producing good low bass. Good low bass compared to what or what defines good low bass? I have attempted to highlight, I believe it is not "low bass" you are feeling but an increase over the whole "dynamic range" including harmonics that even low frequencies are generating. What does your modded units generate in energy and output when you limit them via crossover only to operate from 1-20Hz?

Clearly, while interesting, I don't see it as the best route to take based on my own experiences and testing various units for months on end in different ways. Or again months spent on seeking to learn more towards effects creation and testing creative ideas where possible. Yet people are free to have their own approaches or varied preferences and opinions.

The approach of attempting to create or utilise fake motion and mod units in such ways. You have no control over how it alters their output and this regards to individual frequencies. It just appears like trying to do something in the hope it imitates things they are not intended to do. It's not going to imitate proper low bass that can only be generated by the more professional units and suitable amps and it's not going to imitate good motion either. So personally I am a bit miffed on your own approach you have sought after.

Increased energy output from a unit is not necessarily a better output regards fidelity and definition. Yet your perspective appears to be on feeling more energy from a unit, not how you go about getting multiple effects and their individual detailing to best operate over a seat.

To me it's more important to be seeking to have as much control as possible. This right from the effects creation/design all the way through how and where the effects are output to specific units. These units having intended roles and also what Hz and layers we apply to them based on the type of unit they are.

Seriously though, you state you have no experience in building effects layers but I can't believe you opted to buy Dayton Pucs and continue to ignore/avoid information clearly given on purchasing and testing the recommended 40W exciters due to the benefits they bring.

I still have 2x Dayton Pucs on my seat as I continued to build effects that would operate quite well on them for some of the Discord members but they are not as good and lose quite a bit of detail when compared directly with the 40W exciter.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I had already decided on 8 conductor cables with 8 pole speak-on connectors. Great idea! I'm putting together a shopping list now.

Most 8 conductor cable seems to be 18 Gauge which I assume is fine for the exciters, But I'm looking for 14 gauge for the LFE's. This seems very hard to locate! I did find some 13 / 12 gauge multi conductor on eBay in expensive big bulk rolls. The 8 pole speak-on plugs and connectors are easier to source thank goodness.

I ordered some 8 conductor cable from India but never used it.

In the end I used Flexo F6 wrap and just bundled 4 pair of speaker cable in the wrap. It looks good, is extremely readily available and is very flexible. The 8 conductor cable does bend, but it is less flexible than I would like.

 

[Mr Latte]

@asteroulis well to prove I am actually doing something with my own build. You or others can feel free to comment, find fault or query. In fairness, I do not mind people having a go at my own ideas or attempts or challenge my thinking on factors of the build. So if anyone sees potential issues or drawbacks it may have, then feel free to jump in as I may seem to come across as a bit hard or harsh on some others.

Here is some efforts I did for the isolation solution I was gradually working towards. As a unique part of my build is based around it having individual L/R sections. This is in aid to reduce stereo crosstalk with the tactile as much as possible and will also be evident in the installation of the pedals. The seat section will be supported by 4 sets of these support towers, with two front and back and then a further two will be up at the pedal section.

Ignore the black isolators and the aluminum box sections at the bottom, they are only in place to support this from the floor. The tubing is just ruff cuts as well, new tubing will be bought for the final build.



In total 6 sets of these will bolt onto a recessed 8020 support frame which eventually will have SFX motion added. At the top of these isolation towers will be the lengths of steel chrome tubing I am using to control the distribution of the tactile and this attach the seat and pedal sections. The seat and load of the user will be placed and balanced in the middle of twin isolators. Even the tactile alone will weigh over 60Kg, so I needed quite excessive support and isolation. Previous ideas and attempts with single isolators each side were dipping too much and I didn't want an issue to occur with excessive sway when the motion would be active.

So far I have stood on this to test for load depression and it seems to be giving pretty good support while compressing and giving a small amount of rebound. I need to work on the bolt attachment and will improve some things with a further revision. This was merely a first attempt at having all the holes drilled in the plates.



Part of the revisions will be to apply Stp professional car antivibration and sound-deadening materials to the 8mm aluminum plates which were cut to size to visually fit in with the width of the tubing. The specialist materials are quite heavy but should further help reduce any vibrations that will come from the tactile into the floor and rooms below. One concern I have had with this idea is how it will work with the motion. I think it might help with adding some dampening but I do not expect much sway or roll to be present, while I want some movement in this to benefit the tactile when all sets are connected together I don't expect it to move that much nor do I want it to move that much but I suspect it may feel a bit like a VR3 seat would when coupled to a motion rig.


It has taken quite a while to get all the materials needed to build 6 sets of these as I had to import the isolation pads. Each one of these supports when taking into account the isolators used, the clamps and additional materials are costing over £200. So if as a solution these do not work well then I'm going to look pretty stupid.


At least it's going to be different....

 

[boern69]

looks good
allow the rig to swing roll and move horizontal
sounds good for me

can u show some pics of the seat -> mounting of the shakers / placement etc.?

here is a quick video of 1 of 6 shakers doing the work on 20hz +-
those are the effects I showed already last posts simhub

the volume of the amp is about 5 -6 of 10 (fame quad)

https://www.mediafire.com/file/r935h6kydgfmc7j/VID-20190907-WA0002.mp4/file


tactile can be motion as well
----------------------------------------------------------------
this could be intresting as well -> some theory about shakers

https://www.openadaptronik.de/aktoren-geht-es-auch-guenstig-post_11/
https://www.openadaptronik.de/aktoren-geht-es-auch-guenstig-post_10/
its about spring movement and resonance
very intresting imo

+ here I found some more infos about tuning and noticed this was already done in
2002

https://www.beisammen.de/index.php?thread/18783-bass-pump-ii-bis-10-hz/&pageNo=2

 

[Mr Latte]

Will have to get a look over the links when more time, need to translate. I look forward to feeling the seat section I am working on and the tactile it will use. Yes I expect the decoupling to offer some movement and help to improve the felt tactile but it mainly from the rebound.

I am not wanting to fake lateral or longitudinal movement, we differ in what we seek perhaps. I see no way of how bass energy can be used to offer an accurate variation of motion in a rig to represent suspension travel and this distinguishes small, medium and large suspension travel.

To rely solely on just bass bandwidth in its energy to cause some degree of movement. What happens when I have other types of effects not related to motion at all but these effects still produce strong bass? How then are the vibrations from these effects not going to interfere with others or them not also cause motion fakery?

My focus is on using tactile for delivering the best tactile immersion determined by testing different concepts and models of units. The "exciter concept" is part of that and with Simhub features, it brings things we could not do before. So I like to look at new approaches and methods in overcoming issues many rigs have. One is the common issue of only a few effects working well at any time and increasing the quality and detailing of the most popular effects people enjoy. This is achieved in what the "exciter concept" brings with further expansion possible from units adding deeper bass and utilising the base of the seat to enable further effects.

As an example, 8 channel engines are a big step up in detail and enjoyment as well as much more immersive by applying different effects layers combining to work together. I started developing these in curiosity and as a self-challenge but based on SFX owners that had engine RPM effects as a primary interest. So some people are not looking for a quantity of effects but still seeking high quality and improved immersion.

I will start a thread for my own build in time and it will give an honest insight and step by step progress. I have no problems admitting to things I make mistakes over, get wrong or may not work out as well as expected. What I am not doing, is building a rig based on a few ideas and hoping for the best, many of the ideas for the build have been done in some form of pre-tests or mini-builds. Some things over the last @18 months, I went through 3 or more potential ideas/solutions before finding from testing the one I preferred and will use for the rig.

Look forward to you sharing more of your own build and the motion/concept you find interesting and want to pursue.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I see pictures of aluminum structure and it just makes me want that Mill even more and maybe a metal lathe

 

[boern69]

free setup seat position f1/GT
free setup wheel position in height + distance
free setup pedal position upside down +distance
complete made of 80% wood frame ->leightweight

mid/low rockwood shakers 20hz (+25hz -5hz bandwith)
https://www.mediafire.com/file/r935h6kydgfmc7j/VID-20190907-WA0002.mp4/file
2 rear horizontal (behind the seat) 3kg weight between the shakers ->motor /shifter
4 wheel (chassis mod) mainframe (less stiff ) but not decoupled L/R <- no need imo

damper rear -> 2help dampers at the front of the seat (have to be moved more to the middle pos.)
2 full dampers at the pedal posotion
->triangle allows roll and light horizontal movement
O -frame can be replaced by TT frame (look at my first test rig) to allow more(less) torsion
and decouple back from front <- not needed atm because material absorbs good

pics of absorber section made of 3 parts
the absorber form makes a difference
sorry for all the cables but its wip

6 more shakers coming
4 pucks at the seat
and 1+2 BK mini LTE /or LTE for ultra low

sorry for the short text but there are pics - so not too many words

 

[Mr Latte]

Thanks for showing more images, it certainly is a different installation approach, but interesting in how you can adapt the different car styles/positions. The tactile installation, mmmmmm, it does have me querying how well it controls the path the tactile can take.

I've never seen someone represent the rear suspension with the rear channels in front of the seat @ knee position before. That seems a bit odd, rather than having them more directly connected to the sides of the seat and then the seat get the primary energy from each side and this also flow over the back of the seat.

From images, It appears much of the energy for the rear units is free to go along the full side of the cockpit and towards the front of the rig. Yet the connection point of contact you have with the seat is only via the hinge mechanism and then this is connected to a horizontal support section. It appears as this is the primary path for the tactile to reach the seat it then enables the left/right units energy to freely combine as it reaches/enters the seat.

Tip:
You can place small glasses of water on the frame to test how the energy from the unit is moving over the rigs construction. Do this with individual units powered at a time or all. It can be helpful to see how energy transfers to the opposite side or front/back.

I think we disagree on the importance of attempting to best maintain the L/R effects energy to the installation area and channel the telemetry determines it should be. Personally I don't want energy from directional effects to be corrupted/mingled prior to it being felt in the appropriate body region. We cant prevent the energy converging in a seat or the pedals but we can have its primary energy and path enter them from each side and still be pure. For me, when doing tests, this gave greater sensation in the placement of the effects, be it bumps, lateral G, wheel slip etc.

Why Output In Stereo If We Do Not Seek To Sustain It?
Consider this... If it were a motion rig people would not have 4 actuators installed to enable the telemetry meant for the L/R channels actually combine together and both actuators operate the same only in mono combining L/R activity to one motion. What then would be the point of stereo units and stereo suspension/bump activity from the effects/telemetry output when only a mono based vertical surge is needed. Why then let tactile using the same telemetry be treated any different?

I want as much feedback from the stereo effects as possible, even to the point of placing positional effects over multiple channels per side in the seat for the shoulders / sides / lower spine / buttocks / underside-knees / heels and feet. Yep, pretty much full tactile/body immersion in stereo. This is one thing my own build is designed with the intent to do. The steel tubing I am for using will act like tactile based plumbing, directing the flow of tactile as best possible.

So we certainly have different priorities and approaches for our own builds.
I would like to see your rigs pre-mentioned "mini D-Box like motion" in action. If you can set AC to operate with AI driver. Would like to see how it moves with the bumps.

Upon showing my own rig, you and others are more than welcome to challenge its build or design or how it may operate with tactile. If I am so critical on this subject and other peoples builds then I don't expect to be treated any differently. So do not see my queries or thoughts as personal, meant to offend or being over critical as something in spite to you, as I use the same strict basis on my own build. See it merely as something to consider and explain if you want why you opted for the installation you have, or just ignore if you feel I'm doing your head in.

 

[boern69]

No this is okay
the 2 rear (base frame) shakers are not in the perfect position so far .
A little more under the seat would be probably better

"I think we disagree on the importance of attempting to best maintain the L/R effects..."
mmmh
no/yes
The wheels of a racecar transfer the bumps directly/hard into the frame
-hardest where they appear L/R F/R but u can feel them in the whole car even at ur steeringwheel
or gearshifter

I know this because driving autocar/slalom cars
For this I took a material absorbing the effects more than aluminium
and found this "80%wood "as more realistic for me (beside it was lighter)

For me its a great compromise (feels real) even i am not sure if it is the best to decouple this
but cant wait to see ur attempts/results

BTW here are 2 mods I made for rfactor -remind me at slalom/mountain race

----------------------------------------------------
Do u have a pic how to mount the dayton pucks with 3m ?

I can let the ai in rfactor do the driving as well and try to film it thats a good idea


To give u more feedback of ur rig build u need to show more (proceed) ...
Only showing the absorber units - is not much to talk about?!

 

[Mr Latte]

No this is okay
the 2 rear (base frame) shakers are not in the perfect position so far .
A little more under the seat would be probably better

"I think we disagree on the importance of attempting to best maintain the L/R effects..."
mmmh
no/yes
The chassis /frame of a Racecar transfers the bumps directly into the frame
-hardest where they appear L/R F/R but u can feel them in the whole car even at ur steeringwheel
or gearshifter

I know this because driving autocar/slalom cars
For this I took a material absorbing the effects more than aluminium
and found this "80%wood "as more realistic for me (beside it was lighter)

For me its a compromise even i am not sure if it is the best to decouple this
but cant wait to see ur attempts/results

BTW here are 2 mods I made for rfactor -remind me at slalom/mountain race

----------------------------------------------------
Do u have a pic how to mount the dayton pucks with 3m ?

I can let the ai in rfactor do the driving as well and try to film it thats a good idea


To give u more feedback of ur rig build u need to show more (proceed) ...
Only showing the absorber units - is not much to talk about?!

Your tactile installation does not seem the most ideal, I say that based on a simple principle. We should seek to obtain the best energy and detail it generates, direct to the body locations it should be placed or we want it felt.

Why?
This achieves greater bone conduction and should be your goals, for improved tactile immersion. Not some tactile-motion/hybrid concept that tries to do what a real car does. Not taking ideals of what a real car does in displacing energy as physics/telemetry data are not factoring these and its also a bit farcical to try to copy what a real car does on home made cockpits that are typically 1-2ft wide.

I would advise anyone to seek to find what works best on the cockpit, with the software effects and options you have or enjoy. Spend time towards studying or building more engrossing effects. Increasing channel output. Not chase after idealisims of what happens in a real car and try to emulate that in a cockpit build.

Creativity in effects is now more possible than it ever has been thanks to Simhub and this is key how good we can improve tactile immersion over what has been possible before. I say that having spent quite a bit of time with effects exploration using Simvibe and SSW. Each had thier own benfits but own flaws or drawbacks limitations.


Backing Up Your Claims?
Speaking of which I am waiting to see your rig do as you say it does, in producing motion from tactile. This is something you state is possible and is part of the design/concept of your build. I have claimed, it is not worth pursuing or taking serious as it's not going to be accurate or properly controlled. You ignore questions asked challenging this in how you use/configure the tactile for variations in suspension to determine their travel or motion.

How Low Can You Go?
You also have not come back to say how well your modded £15 tactile which you claim produces strong low bass. So again, I challenge you to test how it operates when you set a crossover limit to 20Hz to then fully determine what energy they output with only infrasound frequencies.

This to remove the additional frequencies in harmonics that are generated which you are feeling and then referring to as improved "low bass". I highlighted how an increase in amplitude over the dynamic range being used altered the output. I presume it is this that is related to the "leverage factor" that people have experienced with BK Gamers and other tactile for increased output.

What will likely happen with your units, is they will not generate much output and with higher gain they will bottom out and likely make more noise than actual vibrational energy with these lowest bass frequencies.

Good energy with these lowest frequencies is important for enhancing some effects and one element is giving a deep floaty sensation but again I challenge your perception on what it is these modded units you have are actually offering in real terms "low bass" to dedicated and more professional tactile hardware. BK Mini will not come close to the large units abilities, so to get a high quality of low bass you will need to buy full-size BK Concert, BK LFE or Earthquake Q10B.

Anyone here is more than welcome to test their own tactile in this way as well.
Speaking of tests, one of these below was a clear overall performance winner when testing my own effects.

Spoiler: Hint

It was not the Dayton Puc

Comparisons, testing & research give the full picture, usage cases and installation methods may vary but specs and advertising claims can be misleading too. Most popular bought options do not mean they are the best or have been properly compared to others. Comparing to others is highly recommended and understanding that sim (telemetry based) tactile immersion can be very demanding on units, more so than typical (audio based) sources.


Vibrational Sensory Feedback - Bodyzones & Bone Conduction
Yes talking a lot on this topic. Yet it is something I think very few owners of tactile/cockpits have sought testing or have experience of.

Positional tactile effects can be very useful in feeling what the car is doing, and even if this is causing rebound on a decoupled/isolated platform like in my case it is not motion, it is multichannel immersion. One thing I do (as a hobbyist) and highlighted before is to monitor all the effects so I see in detail how they output over the different channels via the settings used. This is useful for testing and learning towards configuring effects. Again my own methods or research is not the norm of sim racers.

There is still much to do in testing to determine how we combine body zones or displace specific effects over the seat or body. The truth is having an installation that allows multiple options brings more variation or to find personal preferences to what body zones we use for specific effects. This is why 8 exciter units on the back of the seat is a gamechanger in immersion as we can also compare multiple options. It impressed me so much, it is why I have invited others to follow with the concept.

Further immersion will be achieved when we then combine the exciters with accomplished models below the seat for additional effects roles and much deeper bass enhancements.

My Build Queries
I will demonstrate this in a detailed report of my own build. Although to be fair at the moment, the focus here is not on my own build, it has been on yours and challenges made to some factors you claim your own build achieves. As I said a thread on my build is coming and I highlighted people are welcome to challenge my own build ideas or methods as well. I have to wait to needed components are available/delivered to proceed with the build. It's coming close to a point I can get the seat section built to continue testing and effects creation I want to do.

Building the specialised design I want to do, for my own build and mounting the tactile is only part of the work. It also requires 18 channels of amplification to be ready and configured for the seat and all the interconnects and cabling that goes with it. So it's quite an undertaking for just a seat on a platform.

It's ready when it's ready but each month progress is being made, to have everything in place and thats needed.