Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

anton_Chez · May 4, 2022

I also would add that if you can find the TST's in stock and for a good price, to not mess around with those. If you find good deals with this hardware, better to jump on it as it can be very hard to find again when you think you're ready in 6-12 months time. Prices have been going up for the past few years as well. Just think about where you want to head for tactile and perhaps maybe find a way to pull the trigger all in one go.

blekenbleu · May 4, 2022

MADasFUDGE said:
what kind of signal/feeling can be reproduced with tactile that is actually realistic and will help my feeling while driving

Just to be clear:
SimHub updates telemetry @ 60Hz, which means that signals above 20Hz are inaccurate,
where 20Hz is also about the useful lower limit for the best installed shakers.
Consequently, most tactile may seem credible but is not.
Once again, tactile to help drive need not be realistic, simply proportional and relatable.

RCHeliguy · May 4, 2022

blekenbleu said:
Just to be clear:
SimHub updates telemetry @ 60Hz, which means that signals above 20Hz are inaccurate,
where 20Hz is also about the useful lower limit for the best installed shakers.
Consequently, most tactile may seem credible but is not.
Once again, tactile to help drive need not be realistic, simply proportional and relatable.

I think telemetry frequency only impacts latency and not the actually frequency of the signal being generated based on that telemetry.

So SimHub can generate a real 300Hz signal, but it could have a 1/60sec delay because the telemetry that triggers that signal is 60Hz.

Does that makes sense or am I missing the point you were making.

blekenbleu · May 4, 2022

RCHeliguy said:
SimHub can generate a real 300Hz signal

Tactile signals can certainly be 300Hz, but that (or my tire squeal) is an "artistic creation"
or synthesis, rather than reconstructed telemetry samples of Sim physics, e.g. yaw or surge..
This goes back to a point (made elsewhere) that
some (relatively slow) motion effects can have fidelity to the game,
while most tactile effects are substantially artificial,
even if (arguably and occasionally) seemingly more credible.

RCHeliguy · May 4, 2022

My system doesn't do much above 120Hz at least with my current DSP profiles.

anton_Chez · May 5, 2022

You could probably get the TST's up to around 180hz for things like wheel slip and feel pretty effective. Personal preference I guess.

No Depth · May 5, 2022

Just took delivery of a set of racebass isolation kits. Probably will start a new thread as I will be attempting a DIY solution to fixating them to my p1-X pedal deck to finally isolate my BK. Just waiting for 80/20 to first ship a replacement profile cut to fit to the pedal deck for this to work.

I imagine many will be interested in this project, so I’ll do my best to document once I have all the bits. But also I need help assembling the RB because it has no instructions included nor on the website.

RCHeliguy · May 5, 2022

No Depth said:
Just took delivery of a set of racebass isolation kits. Probably will start a new thread as I will be attempting a DIY solution to fixating them to my p1-X pedal deck to finally isolate my BK. Just waiting for 80/20 to first ship a replacement profile cut to fit to the pedal deck for this to work.

I imagine many will be interested in this project, so I’ll do my best to document once I have all the bits. But also I need help assembling the RB because it has no instructions included nor on the website.

I assume you got the discord invite?

No Depth · May 5, 2022

RCHeliguy said:
I assume you got the discord invite?

Oh? I don’t think I did. I have my simtag receipt and DHL tracking. Was it supposed to be emailed?

fjskmdl · May 5, 2022

I would be interested in the discord to since i just received the plate and isolators but have no invite?

MADasFUDGE · May 7, 2022

cnhoff said:
Without TSTs you will lose some quality on mid freq. stuff like kerbs, without the pedals you will miss out on any pedals effects. Although i of course agree the seat is the more important area, i personally would not want to miss out anymore on the pedals. That changed for me though only after a better choice of effects and improving isolation. The LFE/CT is also not exactly bad on kerbs...personal preference i guess.

Do you have any opinion on which should I get: LFE or CT?
I will be using the NX3000D so the input impedance is a non issue as far as I understand. But they are optimized for different frequencies. How does that affect the effects in game? Is one maybe better for curb effect and the other for engine effect?!?

And which one would be better for the case I don't go for the BK/TST combo?

RCHeliguy · May 7, 2022

The LFE and CT are nearly identical. The key differences are that the CT is 2 ohms which means an NX3000D can give it twice as much power. The LFE is designed to go a bit lower in frequency, but you can use a DSP curve to bring the CT into line.

Soundblaster has no specs for their sound cards below 20Hz, however it appears they do go lower.

RCHeliguy · May 8, 2022

Have I passed overkill yet?

blekenbleu · May 8, 2022

RCHeliguy said:
passed

bleeding edge

HemlockMcGee · May 9, 2022

Hi all. First off: thanks for the immensefully useful threads on tactile feedback. Great stuff.

It convinced me to invest into the technique also. For future-development I have the following setup in mind:

Seat
1 x BK LFE
4 x DAEX32EP-4

Pedals
1 x BK LFE
2 x DAEX32EP-4

I’m deliberately avoiding TST, thinking more differentiated effect can be had from the more separated Dayton pucks. And also $$$ is a factor.

Also the LFE should be more than adequate in bringing low bass road / curb effects all the way up to speed/rpm effect. The latter gradually complemented by the Dayton pucks. For the pedals these pucks will be handling slip and other related effects.

Progress/question

I have started buying the hardware needed. I will be starting with the seat setup and build from there over time. So far I have bought the DAEX and the BK LFE. I’m now in need of an amp. I think the NX1000D should be enough to power this, but see everyone buying the NX3000D instead? I’m really not looking for extra headroom, as I am really not intending to buy into a TST to complement. I want to go solely with the LFE/Exciters solution. So real question: will the NX1000D be a good buy for this?

I’m still contemplating about the RaceBass isolators. Thinking about a diy solution with spring and damper or just buying off the shelf.

Thanks in advance, keep up the good work! I hope to contribute in some way with my build.

anton_Chez · May 9, 2022

Good luck feeling those Dayton's on the pedals.

HemlockMcGee · May 9, 2022

anton_Chez said:
Good luck feeling those Dayton's on the pedals.

Thanks, I guess. Are you suggesting an alternate solution? If you are suggesting TST route; TST shakes the whole wheelplate, how will I have separate sensations in my feet that way? ABS for example shouldn’t be felt in my throttle pedal.

Any advice on my AMP question?

metalnwood · May 9, 2022

HemlockMcGee said:
Thanks, I guess. Are you suggesting an alternate solution? If you are suggesting TST route; TST shakes the whole wheelplate, how will I have separate sensations in my feet that way? ABS for example shouldn’t be felt in my throttle pedal.

Any advice on my AMP question?

The TST will give you a lot more than the pucks. I guess things will never be perfect.

The reality is I am not sure you will really notice abs on the throttle, Normally you dont want abs activating and if you do activate it you are either not on the throttle at all or if you rest on it you will be on it only lightly. Then your brain will transfer to the sensation that it associates with the brake pedal.

I would be very surprised if you were put of by abs transferring through to the throttle and in return you will get nicer effects.

HemlockMcGee · May 9, 2022

metalnwood said:
The TST will give you a lot more than the pucks. I guess things will never be perfect.

The reality is I am not sure you will really notice abs on the throttle, Normally you dont want abs activating and if you do activate it you are either not on the throttle at all or if you rest on it you will be on it only lightly. Then your brain will transfer to the sensation that it associates with the brake pedal.

I would be very surprised if you were put of by abs transferring through to the throttle and in return you will get nicer effects.

Thanks for the reply. I just feel like (apart from being robbed $$) having an LFE AND TST on the pedal deck is just.. a lot. Same for the seat. Sure, I think I’ll love it, but I think I’ll love my current idea just as much (for significantly less). Could be better off starting with just the LFE for the pedals and see what I’m missing in terms of tyre effects.

For now I’ll be focussing on the seat LFE and Exciters. So… about the amp I need for that; will a NX1000D suffice?

RCHeliguy · May 9, 2022

HemlockMcGee said:
but I think I’ll love my current idea just as much (for significantly less).

Many of us ( almost all I suspect ) have felt that way. It's a process. There are two issues here. First, you should never spend more than you are comfortable with and I don't think anyone should be twisting your arm. Second, the recommendation of the BK/TST pair is sound and based on lots and lots of testing and trial and error.

You'll get there in your own time.