Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[dwightyone]

Just want to throw this out there for anyone who’s new to this like myself.

Having a seat that reclines and attaching some MDF to it to mount like this works, but predictably the rumbles are WAY more muted than a bucket seat
View attachment 489897

I had my amp volume pretty much maxed out with the reclining chair and then when I switched to a bucket for better tactile feedback, I had to cut the volume way back to around the 12 o clock position. There is a big difference in the fidelity as well as I’m sure many people have mentioned in the hundred of pages here.

Also, if you have an 8020 and mount a shaker directly to the aluminum like this:
View attachment 489939
It’s not nearly as good as mounting the pedals to a regular pedal plate with transducer attached to it

View attachment 489940
Maybe this will help someone!

I had the same problem with my recliner using the BK Gamer 2 so out came the stanley knife and a 4cm discrete side cut into the leather at the bottom of the back of the seat - I then directly connected to the exposed 3/4 inch bar with the BK clamp and using some flat smooth small cuts of wood squeezed in to increase the contact area. It works pretty good but I would like to have more of an tactile upgrade but trying to find a place to make contact on a recliner seat is difficult without a clamp. Other than that I'd end up doing what you have done which I have done myself before but it seemed to dampen the tactile effects.

 

[Mr Latte]

An example of getting to grips with the Samsung G9 PAP mode. Having the in-game action while being able to monitor the tactile output was one of the reasons for getting the G9.

Starting to become more accustomed to the monitoring possibilities with Cubase Pro 11 and Supervision. Here we are comparing a basic effect to one of my own multilayers to see how each responds and what frequencies they generate.

Tactile monitoring possible from up to 32 effects layers/channels at one time via digital mixer & routed into DAW.

Not the best example shown here but you can see the "Blue output" has more range in width of used frequencies with more body and detail in the felt sensations.


Liking the Ergotron mount makes it very easy to position the monitor how/where you want it. The curve and width of the monitor will fit perfectly within the rollcage tubing I will be adding.

I got to say that I REALLY feel tempted in having 2xstacked G9 monitors installed within the frame/rollcage I am building for my rig. The PAP mode is still a bit cramped to add the number of visualization tools I want to use. So one 49" monitor for playing and a 2nd above for the tactile monitoring would be awesome, just not sure if it will fit.

 

[anton_Chez]

So I've FINALLY allowed myself to acquire the BK Concert LFE (is the Concert even called the LFE?) whilst already owning the NX1000D. I've had my DSP tuned to achieve a higher response from the sub 20hz range for the mini Earthquake model I am currently running. But that is going and being replaced with the Concert, soon to arrive. Is there a little "how to" on how to tune the DSP to specifically tune the Concert to achieve best results? @Mr Latte will be shaking his head at me that it took this long to get a hold of one, but I have it now, along with the profile to suit the unit. So just need some confirmation on how to set up the DSP EQ as well as perhaps what power limit to use for the unit (this one is 2ohms and apparently this amp outputs more power at 2ohms than it does at 4ohms. Bonus?).

Might be a little lazy but happy for someone to just provide a link so I can read for myself if there is anyone that has one handy.

 

[RCHeliguy]

So I've FINALLY allowed myself to acquire the BK Concert LFE (is the Concert even called the LFE?)

The Concert is 2 ohms. Because of the low impedance it is a harder load for an amplifier requiring more current.
The LFE is 4 ohms and has an additional boost to a lower frequency.

I got the Concert with the understanding which may or may not be true that it had less of an issue with pistoning since I have an NX4-6000 without the DSP features of the NX1000D. My understanding was based on another Concert owner but I have no A/B testing to confirm that.

The profiles developed in this thread are supposed to allow you to drive the LFE harder without pistoning issues.

 

[Mr Latte]

So I've FINALLY allowed myself to acquire the BK Concert LFE (is the Concert even called the LFE?) whilst already owning the NX1000D. I've had my DSP tuned to achieve a higher response from the sub 20hz range for the mini Earthquake model I am currently running. But that is going and being replaced with the Concert, soon to arrive. Is there a little "how to" on how to tune the DSP to specifically tune the Concert to achieve best results? @Mr Latte will be shaking his head at me that it took this long to get a hold of one, but I have it now, along with the profile to suit the unit. So just need some confirmation on how to set up the DSP EQ as well as perhaps what power limit to use for the unit (this one is 2ohms and apparently this amp outputs more power at 2ohms than it does at 4ohms. Bonus?).

Might be a little lazy but happy for someone to just provide a link so I can read for myself if there is anyone that has one handy.

Congratulations, this is a special moment, I assumed was never going to happen...

Yes I can make some fun of this but I can only hope when you experience it properly, you then will want to have another for pedals. I am sure we can see about forwarding you a DSP profile or screenshots of settings to use on the amp.

The NX1000D amplifier offers listed power ratings of
1000 Watts (2 x 500 Watts @ 2 Ohms; 2 x 300 Watts @ 4 Ohms)

It should be enough to power dual BK Concert, if you have decent isolation.
The 3000D just gives more headroom in its additional wattage.

I'm not fully convinced on Buttkickers claims on how each unit is tuned for Cinema/Music applications. With the DSP functions, we can create an operating curve to suit how you want to use the unit and then also PEQ to fine-tune specific frequencies if needed.

Set the Amp to 2ohms, with no wattage limiter for the channel powering the BK CT
Here are some other options.

These are old but general guidelines.....

The two colours represent two different curves based on the settings used.
You can try one then the other.

Try the gain to 10dB first / 12 dB may have the fans coming on more or be too excessive

If using as a standalone unit then you will want a much wider crossover curve, rather than a smaller curve more focus on low bass operational role. If you compared these two options you will feel a difference as one will produce better low end but the other not so much but it will cover more frequency range.


Here we see a change to try with the blue option offering 0dB at 60Hz -5dB @80Hz and upto 100Hz at -10dB. You could also try the High Pass 1 set to OFF but just keep an eye on how the chart alters with any changes.


Small trim to reduce pang and an attempt to add a little more boost. For LFE/BK Concert you may need to move the trim closer to 25Hz. You can play about with settings but if using a good Crossover Curve then we use the PEQ more for specific tweaking or control of individual frequencies.



As advised, partnering these with TST and then multi-exciters is a package that brings a level of tactile immersion potential that no other solutions offer.

 

[dwightyone]

Taking of 2 ohms which also the buttkicker gamer 2 is, is it possible to swap it out and run 2 buttkicker mini lfe from the buttkicker amp or even better if i connect a mini lfe 4ohms will that make the gamer no more a 2 ohms but a 4 ohms and i wire those 2 together instead. Sorry for jumping in the current talks just had a brainwave when reading the latest posts about buttkicker concert ohms in this thread.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Taking of 2 ohms which also the buttkicker gamer 2 is, is it possible to swap it out and run 2 buttkicker mini lfe from the buttkicker amp or even better if i connect a mini lfe 4ohms will that make the gamer no more a 2 ohms but a 4 ohms and i run those 2 together instead. Sorry for jumping in the current talks just had a brainwave when reading the latest posts about buttkicker concert ohms in the latest posts of this thread.

Important! Running those two together is not specific enough. For the 2 ohm example, you need to run them in series and NOT parallel. Very few amplifiers can handle a 1 ohm impedance.

Example below is for 2 ohm transducers
Series = 2 + 2 = 4 ohms. ( Safe for "most" amplifiers )
Parallel = 1/2ohms + 1/2ohms = 1 ohm. ( VERY BAD for most amplifiers )

There are lots of things that you can do without harming your amplifier, just understand that they are going to share the energy however you do this.

The following DEPENDS on the amplifier. You can get more power out of some amplifiers with a lower impedance, but there are limitations. For example my NX4-6000 can put out 1500W into 2 ohms for each of it's 4 channels or 750W into 4ohms for each of it's 4 channels. However it is important to realize that the single plug can only deliver 1800W of AC power and it is sharing it with my computer among other things. So that rating is purely based on a transient response powered by the capacitors. I've looked and the capacitors in this Class D amplifier are not large. So realistically I can't expect that kind of power for very long.

So if you put two 4 ohm transducers in parallel you would get a 2 ohm total impedance and would maximize the current available from a single channel of my amplifier.

If you take two 2 ohm transducers and put them in parallel you get a 4 ohm total impedance. If you run your mini-LFE's in series as long as you have more volume in your dial left to give and

Your amplifier only cares that the total impedance is higher than the lowest value it can handle. Whether you have enough power or not depends on the amplifier.

 

[dwightyone]

@

Important! Running those two together is not specific enough. For the 2 ohm example, you need to run them in series and NOT parallel. Very few amplifiers can handle a 1 ohm impedance.

Series = 2 + 2 = 4 ohms. ( Safe for "most" amplifiers )
Parallel = 1/2ohms + 1/2ohms = 1 ohm. ( VERY BAD for most amplifiers )

There are lots of things that you can do without harming your amplifier, just understand that they are going to share the energy however you do this.

The following DEPENDS on the amplifier. You can get more power out of some amplifiers with a lower impedance, but there are limitations. For example my NX4-6000 can put out 1500W into 2 ohms for each of it's 4 channels or 750W into 4ohms for each of it's 4 channels. However it is important to realize that the single plug can only deliver 1800W of AC power and it is sharing it with my computer among other things. So that rating is purely based on a transient response powered by the capacitors. I've looked and the capacitors in this Class D amplifier are not large. So realistically I can't expect that kind of power for very long.

So if you put two 4 ohm transducers in parallel you would get a 2 ohm total impedance and would maximize the current available from a single channel of my amplifier.

If you take two 2 ohm transducers and put them in parallel you get a 4 ohm total impedance. If you run your mini-LFE's in series as long as you have more volume in your dial left to give and

Your amplifier only cares that the total impedance is higher than the lowest value it can handle. Whether you have enough power or not depends on the amplifier.

Thanks for such an informative reply, I think I get it - I basically would need the overall speaker ohms to be higher than the ohm of the amp. But I wouldn't want to connect 2 mini lfe 4 ohms and wire them in a way to make them two 2ohms running of the amp - even if that is possible... I would want both to be seen as 4ohms by the buttkicker 2ohm rated amp and wire them together in series and both 4ohms speakers get half power each. I think thats right but probably not. Gawd, I don't think people realize how stresssful tactile can get and my current setup of one is dead simple. And I better to do it right otherwise i will be dead via electrocution.

Thanks RC

 

[RCHeliguy]

Series is on the right.
If you take the transducers and run the amplifier to one lead of one transducer and one lead of the 2nd transducer and then connect the unused leads of both transducers together they will be in series. This adds the impedance together.

Parallel on the left.
If you run wires from the amplifier to one transducer and then run wires from the first transducer to the second transducer, they will be in parallel. This drops the impedance.


Think of VB as being your amplifier.

Red = +
Black = -

 

[dwightyone]

So if I run the two 4ohm mini lfe together in series I still get 4ohms and not 2 x 4 ohms speakers joined together = 8ohms. And doing that way is okay with a 2ohm rated buttkicker amp. I understand how to wire both in series now as exampled by you - thanks. If I come across as a bit clueless its because I am.

 

[RCHeliguy]

See the equations under the drawings

With series 4ohm + 4 ohms = 8 ohms
in parallel 4/2 = 2 ohms. ( easier to look at than solve for R equivalent )

 

[dwightyone]

Mm... so if I run two 4ohms speakers in parallel they will become 2ohm which is what the 2ohm buttkicker is rated for - but I would have to run lower volumes I guess so I dont fry the amp. So my only other option is to run the two 4 ohm mini lfe in series and that would give me 8 ohms but would feel significantly weaker in a tactile sense. So two 4ohm mini lfe buttkickers wired in any configuration together will not be seen as 4 ohm by the 2ohm buttkicker amp - only as 2ohm or 8ohm.

 

[dwightyone]

Thanks RCHeliguy - helped me more than you realize!

 

[RCHeliguy]

I can't speak to the amps longevity. If you run them in parallel given your amp is rated for a 2ohm load, you would likely get more power out of it. In series it may just not push them hard enough.

 

[dwightyone]

I can't speak to the amps longevity. If you run them in parallel given your amp is rated for a 2ohm load, you would likely get more power out of it. In series it may just not push them hard enough.

I think to get around that I'll get the 2ohm mini concert and run it in series with the 2ohm buttkicker gamer transducer and that will give me 4ohm and then I'm bang in the middle - not as strong but not as weak as the other previous options and then that means I can run two tranducers from one buttkicker amp at 4 ohm. You've taught me well!

 

[Deleted member 1449502]

Hi guys, long time lurker of the thread first time poster. Can't tell you how much the information here has transformed my sim racing experience! I have read it through multiple times and tried to apply and test as much as I could, now arriving at a setup that gives me chills every time I fire it up. I'd like to thank everyone that has contributed and made this thread such an amazing resource, but I'd particularly like to thank Mr. Latte the pioneer we would have never got this far without you mate.

Just a quick overview of my setup for those curious.
Tactile setup:
-3 x NX3000D
-Earthquake Q10B
-Earthquake MQB-1
-Clark Synthesis TST209
-Buttkicker Gamer 2
Hardware:
DD2
Heusinkveld Sprints

I just wanted to contribute something small and see what people think. I had a play with Mr Latte's various Aston Martin Engine RPM effects and added a couple of layers then modified the response curves to suite the Porsche 911 II GT3 R in ACC.
Now I have in the description which shaker and location the effect was assigned to, I understand we all have different setups but hopefully this can help set it up as close to my setup before hopefuly improving upon it and sharing it to continually improve upon

 

[No Depth]

Hnmm...finally got my Concert Mini bolted under my pedal deck with isolation installed.

But now you are all convincing me to trade it up for the 4ohm Mini LFE instead! I have an amp that supports 2-8ohm(Concert running fine so far), but if there is a noticeable difference in low-end or other effects I am unaware of on the 4 ohm Mini LFE, I mean I still have a few days left to make the exchange.

Should I do it?

 

[anton_Chez]

There really is no difference going from Mini Concert to Mini LFE. That's not an upgrade. The upgrade is if you were to get an Advance or the large Concert or LFE unit. You'd bascially be sidestepping into almost the same device with a different colour sticker on. Unless your amp is better suited to 4ohm loads, that's the only difference the Mini LFE has vs the Mini Concert which I am assuming is the same 2ohm load as its bigger brother.

 

[anton_Chez]

Small dilemma. I have my BK Concert in hand. It's going on my seat, but I am going to have trouble fixing it to the bottom. There is no clearance. I'd need to raise the seat, or raise the entire chassis around 20-30mm to allow it to fit underneath.

I already have a BK Mini there, which fits fine obviously as it's like a third of the size of the Concert. How bad would it be if I mounted the Concert to the rear of the seat, as opposed to completely vertically underneath? I have a unit there now, but was thinking that the larger unit would be better suited completely vertically and the Mini might work a little better than it being mostly horizontal.

Thoughts?

 

[RCHeliguy]

Small dilemma. I have my BK Concert in hand. It's going on my seat, but I am going to have trouble fixing it to the bottom. There is no clearance. I'd need to raise the seat, or raise the entire chassis around 20-30mm to allow it to fit underneath.

I already have a BK Mini there, which fits fine obviously as it's like a third of the size of the Concert. How bad would it be if I mounted the Concert to the rear of the seat, as opposed to completely vertically underneath? I have a unit there now, but was thinking that the larger unit would be better suited completely vertically and the Mini might work a little better than it being mostly horizontal.

Thoughts?

I ran profile between the seat brackets and hung my BK off the back. It transmits power well, but my seat is mounted on a pivot.