Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

[EsxPaul]

@vanka472 @ScreaminBejesus @DM77

Thanks so much for taking the time to write such detailed explanations for me. That is exactly the type of help and guidance I was hoping for and being able to refer to it as I work my way through learning this is going to save me wasting hours of time and frustration. Fantastic stuff and very much appreciated

 

[EsxPaul]

I don't suppose there are many people that have had the chance to compare but if anyone has, would you think there is much difference in performance between the Douk M4 and the Behringer EPQ304?

This is going to sound crazy but I'm considering selling the Douk and buying a Behringer, mainly for aesthestic reasons (lines up nicely with the NXD) and the added bonus of not needing a power brick. I'm guessing I wouldn't notice anything in performance terms though?

 

[DM77]

I don't suppose there are many people that have had the chance to compare but if anyone has, would you think there is much difference in performance between the Douk M4 and the Behringer EPQ304?

This is going to sound crazy but I'm considering selling the Douk and buying a Behringer, mainly for aesthestic reasons (lines up nicely with the NXD) and the added bonus of not needing a power brick. I'm guessing I wouldn't notice anything in performance terms though?

I dont think there would be a massive difference. I'm quite tempted by the Behringer as well actually for the same reasons you are, and my existing Behringer has been fantastic for the last few years.

 

[EsxPaul]

I dont think there would be a massive difference. I'm quite tempted by the Behringer as well actually for the same reasons you are, and my existing Behringer has been fantastic for the last few years.

Thanks. The idea popped into my head after seeing manufacturer refurbished ones going for around £100 on ebay today. I'm a little sceptical after reading the seller reviews (Music Tribe) on Trustpilot so I think I'd probably cough up an extra £30 and go with someone reputable like Thomann.

 

[ScreaminBejesus]

I don't suppose there are many people that have had the chance to compare but if anyone has, would you think there is much difference in performance between the Douk M4 and the Behringer EPQ304?

I can't compare them with the Douk M4, but I have been very happy so far with my EPQ304 driving four DAEX32P-4 exciters.

 

[Brutal Deluxe]

I don't suppose there are many people that have had the chance to compare but if anyone has, would you think there is much difference in performance between the Douk M4 and the Behringer EPQ304?

This is going to sound crazy but I'm considering selling the Douk and buying a Behringer, mainly for aesthestic reasons (lines up nicely with the NXD) and the added bonus of not needing a power brick. I'm guessing I wouldn't notice anything in performance terms though?

You've got me looking at them now :/ Seem to be out of stock most places (for UK delivery)

 

[Mr Latte]

The EPQ 304 has irritating fan whine so you best mod it like I did, this adds to the cost.



Its a solid and nice built unit but care would need to be taken with its wattage more. it only needs very little volume for the exciters.

Lots of people have used Nobsound amps for budget tactile and exciters.
Ive not ran mine yet to compare to the EPQ304 (no tactile in 2 months) but I don't think it would be much different.

Get what your say with rack mounting and looking more professional though and no powerbrick.

 

[EsxPaul]

You've got me looking at them now :/ Seem to be out of stock most places (for UK delivery)

Thomann were carrying stock up until 3 or 4 days back but it's now saying a 1-2 week wait. Perhaps that's a sign that I should concentrate on getting what I have working before splurging out even more money

 

[EsxPaul]

The EPQ 304 has irritating fan whine so you best mod it like I did, this adds to the cost.

Its a solid and nice built unit but care would need to be taken with its wattage more so and it only needs very little volume gain for the exciters.

Lots of people have used Nobsound amps for budget tactile and exciters.
Ive not ran mine yet to compare to the EPQ304 but I don't think it would be much different.
Get what your say with rack mounting and looking more professional though.

That's good to know and if they are anything like as loud as the one in the NXD I've got it'll definitely be getting that mod you've shown. I've picked up a Noctua for the NXD and am just waiting on a connector from ebay that I hope might make my life easier. Fingers crossed it'll be the right fit

 

[DM77]

Thomann were carrying stock up until 3 or 4 days back but it's now saying a 1-2 week wait. Perhaps that's a sign that I should concentrate on getting what I have working before splurging out even more money

Amazon seem to have them in stock at the moment, I just ordered one.

 

[vanka472]

So I am at a crossroads with my exciters...

I have the DAEX32EP-4 and am currently running 6 until I get the rest of my amps to further progress along this journey. So far I have RMA'd 2 of them, as they started to get very noisy over time. Its a sort of rattle, that seems to be associated with the actual build of the device. I tested this by moving this in different locations on the seat and getting the same result for noise. Here are my settings

My settings:
Amps Vol: 50%
Soundcard Vol: 50%
Computer Vol: 50% (though I think this is synonymous to the soundcard vol)
Master Volue in Simhub: 50-55% per channel
Effects: These are relevant but for this example, we will use Kerb effects (45%)

Now Parts Express was kind enough to send me new ones while allowing me to keep the old ones to see if we could figure out the issue. The new ones worked great....until they didn't. In the last few days, I now am experiencing the same "rattle" effect on one of the new ones that I received. Since these replaced the old ones, the location and effects being applied are the same, but this time we are only getting a 50% failure rate.

At first, I thought maybe it was frequency related, so I tried the tone generator, and while one side had no issues peaking and stayed well within its shaking ability, the other one even with the slightest volume started to rattle.

So the question is, am I getting lemons, or is this truly user error? Is there a possibility that the adhesion could be causing this issue? The reason I bring this up is that once I barely touch the exciter while it is being activated, the rattle does go away. I would like to figure this out so that I can either continue to go down this path or find new exciters or transducers as replacements for long term use. I should also mention that this entire project and all 3 exciters I have had issues with has spanned only over about 3-4 weeks.

 

[ScreaminBejesus]

That's good to know and if they are anything like as loud as the one in the NXD I've got it'll definitely be getting that mod you've shown. I've picked up a Noctua for the NXD and am just waiting on a connector from ebay that I hope might make my life easier. Fingers crossed it'll be the right fit

My EXP304 fan is not nearly as loud as my NX3000D, but it has a higher pitch, which I'm sure would easily annoy most people. I may get around to following @Mr Latte's guidance on replacing the fan, but I find I don't notice it much when racing and not at all with headphones.

 

[EsxPaul]

The reason I bring this up is that once I barely touch the exciter while it is being activated, the rattle does go away.

Are you powering them hard when they rattle? Mine were doing that and I noticed that the outermost front edge of the exiter was bumping up against the edge of a raised ridge on my seat when it was only halfway through its travel. I had to move them over just a few mm so they could extend fairly far without contacting anything. They do still hit the seat if I press them in with a lot of pressure but when they do, the full circumference of the exiter hits the seat evenly all around that outside edge. You can observe this by manually pressing them in towards the seat back, bottom or sides to see how any contact is made.

 

[Mr Latte]

So I am at a crossroads with my exciters...

I have the DAEX32EP-4 and am currently running 6 until I get the rest of my amps to further progress along this journey. So far I have RMA'd 2 of them, as they started to get very noisy over time. Its a sort of rattle, that seems to be associated with the actual build of the device. I tested this by moving this in different locations on the seat and getting the same result for noise. Here are my settings

My settings:
Amps Vol: 50%
Soundcard Vol: 50%
Computer Vol: 50% (though I think this is synonymous to the soundcard vol)
Master Volue in Simhub: 50-55% per channel
Effects: These are relevant but for this example, we will use Kerb effects (45%)

Now Parts Express was kind enough to send me new ones while allowing me to keep the old ones to see if we could figure out the issue. The new ones worked great....until they didn't. In the last few days, I now am experiencing the same "rattle" effect on one of the new ones that I received. Since these replaced the old ones, the location and effects being applied are the same, but this time we are only getting a 50% failure rate.

At first, I thought maybe it was frequency related, so I tried the tone generator, and while one side had no issues peaking and stayed well within its shaking ability, the other one even with the slightest volume started to rattle.

So the question is, am I getting lemons, or is this truly user error? Is there a possibility that the adhesion could be causing this issue? The reason I bring this up is that once I barely touch the exciter while it is being activated, the rattle does go away. I would like to figure this out so that I can either continue to go down this path or find new exciters or transducers as replacements for long term use. I should also mention that this entire project and all 3 exciters I have had issues with has spanned only over about 3-4 weeks.

Simhubs "primary/main/master volume" whatever people want to call it (top right) IS the soundcard(s) being used volume.

Simhub can generate much more low Hz than typical audio sources, did you apply the recommended crossover settings to help protect these exciter units under 25-30Hz? This also might help with your issue or try a stronger bond solution to the seat.

Not all this below may be related to your issue but can be issues...
Rattle could occur if the unit does not have a solid bond/connection with the source object.

Reverb issues with different frequency tests is possible, like for instance does the seat hum badly like a speaker? If a user discovers, let's say @60Hz (only an example) was causing a problem, you can reduce the amplitude of this problematic frequency band via DSP/PEQ control without affecting other frequencies output. You cant apply pinpoint accuracy like that with volume or only basic EQ controls. As PEQ equalizing also lets you adjust the "Q factor" in how wide the adjustment affects other neighboring frequencies.

Resonatoooooor
Different materials will have different resonant frequencies. This is generally the peak resonant frequency of an object. Using a good crossover filter (DSP) will let you limit the output for what is the max frequency we allow the unit to generate. 200Hz at 0dB is a good start but will not necessarily be ideal or to every user's taste.

TST can peak with resonance issues in some seats @60-80Hz

People that are testing DSP settings for the exciters be it via PC-Soundcard software or additional hardware could share the settings they find work well. Would then be simple for others to apply these settings. My advice is for people to try to tune them and then compare the units with and without the DSP which will clearly determine if indeed for most users it is worth considering for these units or not. Users that like more control of the audio will want it.

Keep in mind exciters are half of a speaker/ the voice coil and their primary usage is to turn objects into speakers, in that the object becomes like the speaker cone. We do not want to use them for this purpose but only the bass frequencies with @150-200Hz being a good limit to consider.

My advice would be to use an exciter from around 35Hz to 150hz or 200Hz and similar for TST units as well. Higher end TST units will offer better mid and low range performance though.

 

[EsxPaul]

I'm just having a nose around Sim Hub to familiarise myself a little. I was using the "Test Now" function to check that things were working and noticed that in order to get output to all 4 of my exiters, I have to map them to channels 1-2-7-8. I was thinking they would normally be linked to channels 1-2-3-4.

Could I have done something wrong with my wiring here or will I be ok to proceed with things as they are?

 

[Tom_Hampton]

I'm just having a nose around Sim Hub to familiarise myself a little. I was using the "Test Now" function to check that things were working and noticed that in order to get output to all 4 of my exiters, I have to map them to channels 1-2-7-8. I was thinking they would normally be linked to channels 1-2-3-4.

Could I have done something wrong with my wiring here or will I be ok to proceed with things as they are?

View attachment 387122

I couldn't find a way in simhub to change the channel order. So, I just figured out which outputs corresponded with each channel number and connected them accordingly. The ones that seem to matter the most are the ones associated with the 4 corners, because SimHub defaults to Ch1/2 = LF/RF, Ch3/4 = LR/RR. If you don't follow that convention then you have to manually remap everything. Of course if you have a lot of transducers or a more unique configuration, then that won't matter much anyway, because it will all be manually tailored/mapped.

Also, its probably good to note that if Simhub crashes, or your PC crashes while Simhub is running, there is a good chance your Simhub config will get corrupted. Simhub will detect this, and notify you then recover....but, it then returns to a default configuration wiping out any configuration you have done. There's currently no "revert to last known good config" option. Therefore, its highly recommended that you backup your simhub config after making changes to it. ....don't ask me how I know...

 

[EsxPaul]

Thank you for explaining that @Tom_Hampton

I've exported the profiles and backed them up after reading that as there's no way I would remember my last settings. Great tip.

I assumed the channel assignments might be something to do with whichever sound card output is chosen as I have my 2 concerts plugged into the onboard audio centre/sub jack and they showed up as channels 3+4. Now I know I haven't done anything wrong I'll make a note for future reference

On a more general note, I've now had my first little attempt at testing out the various effects and it's gone good and bad for me. The Exiters that are receiving their signal from a discreet soundcard (@50% vol) seem to be pretty close to how I had imagined they would be and I'm getting some nice output and feeling from them.

However, I haven't done so well with the BK concerts. They receive their signal from the onboard soundcard (@50% vol) and I'm thinking it might have a relatively low output in comparison. I've noticed that the levels never went above - 24db with any of the effects according to the meter in NX Edit.

I know I still have lots of scope to increase gain via the soundcard volume, the individual Sim Hub effects volumes or the gain controls on the NX amp but I've chickened out from doing any of that until I get more familiar with what I should be doing and in what order.

Another embarrassing thing I couldn't work out was how to run ACC in windowed mode so I'm off to do a bit of the Googles...

 

[DM77]

Thank you for explaining that @Tom_Hampton

I've exported the profiles and backed them up after reading that as there's no way I would remember my last settings. Great tip.

I assumed the channel assignments might be something to do with whichever sound card output is chosen as I have my 2 concerts plugged into the onboard audio centre/sub jack and they showed up as channels 3+4. Now I know I haven't done anything wrong I'll make a note for future reference

On a more general note, I've now had my first little attempt at testing out the various effects and it's gone good and bad for me. The Exiters that are receiving their signal from a discreet soundcard (@50% vol) seem to be pretty close to how I had imagined they would be and I'm getting some nice output and feeling from them.

However, I haven't done so well with the BK concerts. They receive their signal from the onboard soundcard (@50% vol) and I'm thinking it might have a relatively low output in comparison. I've noticed that the levels never went above - 24db with any of the effects according to the meter in NX Edit.

I know I still have lots of scope to increase gain via the soundcard volume, the individual Sim Hub effects volumes or the gain controls on the NX amp but I've chickened out from doing any of that until I get more familiar with what I should be doing and in what order.

Another embarrassing thing I couldn't work out was how to run ACC in windowed mode so I'm off to do a bit of the Googles...

BK units require a lot of power to drive to the fullest safe capacity. You might either need more gain, or more power, or a combination of the two.

 

[Mr Latte]

So if you have issues with channel activity not on the channel you'd like in Simhubs menus.
Then you can physically swap the cable for the installed unit for the channel output that will correspond with the channel you want Simhub to use.

Different cards seem to cause an issue or sometimes Simhub gets muddled with this.

 

[Tom_Hampton]

So if you have issues with channel activity not on the channel you'd like in Simhubs menus.
Then you can physically swap the cable to the channel output that will correspond with the channel you want Simhub to use.

That's exactly what I did....through experimentation. I recall it being a bit strange, but I didn't write it down.

Do you know, is there a standard mapping from 5.1 and 7.1 channels to Simhub channel numbers?