Tactile Immersion - General Discussion - Hardware & Software

Okay i think i get it now. I dont really know what effects can i get from simhub, im just guessing. One exciter can only used for 1 effect otherwise they will overlap each other or something? In that case i might need to go with 4 but then im missing out on the pedal.
I assume for 5 exciter i need a different amp? Possibly more expensive?

Lets try this....Here's a simplified block diagram of the Simhub system, interface to game level telemetry, and mixer/sound-card/audio-amp/exciter outputs. I listed most of the "standard" effects that Simhub comes with by default.

Note this is not a tutorial on Simhub....just a general overview of the concepts. I don't know if this helps or not...but, its an attempt.

Each game generates some amount of telemetry data based on events within-Sim. Simhub pulls in all this data and makes it available in an abstracted type of format. Each standard effect has a standard set of telemetry that it pulls from and then generates an audio stream as an output.

1593030117522.png


Every effect has various controls to manipulate the output: amplitude, frequency, etc. Both amplitude and frequency can be changed based on the incoming telemetry. Effects can be configured as mono, divided front-rear, left-right, or 4-corners.

Custom effects can also be created. The custom effect editor allows you to write functions of any available telemetry data, and then assign effect audio stream outputs to that custom function.

Each Effect has a named separate output for each as defined by the configuration (Front, Rear, Left, Right, FrontLeft, FrontRight, RearLeft, and/or RearRight). This allows you to map each separate sub-effect output to any soundcard channel (or more than one channel). Further, each sub-effect output level can be adjusted specifically for a particular channel assignment.

See the output controls dialog below. The column along the top is the Soundcard channels. The rows down the left are the effects, and sub-effects. Each affect that is assigned to a particular channel, gets mixed with all other effects assigned to that same channel. If "per-effect gain" is enabled, then each affect amplitude is adjusted during mixing prior to putting the final audio stream out onto the channel.


1593032317669.png
 
Lets try this....Here's a simplified block diagram of the Simhub system, interface to game level telemetry, and mixer/sound-card/audio-amp/exciter outputs. I listed most of the "standard" effects that Simhub comes with by default.

Note this is not a tutorial on Simhub....just a general overview of the concepts. I don't know if this helps or not...but, its an attempt.

Each game generates some amount of telemetry data based on events within-Sim. Simhub pulls in all this data and makes it available in an abstracted type of format. Each standard effect has a standard set of telemetry that it pulls from and then generates an audio stream as an output.

View attachment 383988

Every effect has various controls to manipulate the output: amplitude, frequency, etc. Both amplitude and frequency can be changed based on the incoming telemetry. Effects can be configured as mono, divided front-rear, left-right, or 4-corners.

Custom effects can also be created. The custom effect editor allows you to write functions of any available telemetry data, and then assign effect audio stream outputs to that custom function.

Each Effect has a named separate output for each as defined by the configuration (Front, Rear, Left, Right, FrontLeft, FrontRight, RearLeft, and/or RearRight). This allows you to map each separate sub-effect output to any soundcard channel (or more than one channel). Further, each sub-effect output level can be adjusted specifically for a particular channel assignment.

See the output controls dialog below. The column along the top is the Soundcard channels. The rows down the left are the effects, and sub-effects. Each affect that is assigned to a particular channel, gets mixed with all other effects assigned to that same channel. If "per-effect gain" is enabled, then each affect amplitude is adjusted during mixing prior to putting the final audio stream out onto the channel.


View attachment 383997

Okay, it helps a lot, i think i got the basics now. I dont want to go only seat or only pedals so here is my setup idea:

2 NS01G
4 Dayton exciter

1st ns01g with 2 exciter connected to the bottom of my seat, these would be the road effects only, 2 sides separetly set up in simhub.

2nd ns01g with
1 connected to the back of the seat, that would be the engine effect and gear shift
1 connected to the brake pedal for wheel lock only.

How can i tell if i overwork the exciter?
 
Looking at the pics below of the inside of my GS-105 does anyone think I could mount my BK4-4 “any better” for tactile feedback? I have the BK4-4 mounted under the seat and I think I have it installed the only possible way but I would like hear your opinion(s). One thought I had was to mount the BK on different material then attach that to the seat bottom but I think I would get the same result(?)

(I will be using buttkicker rubber isolators between the chair and the MDF board it sits on)

0623200929c.jpg


0623200929d.jpg



Thanks
 
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does anyone think I could mount my BK4-4 “any better” for tactile feedback?

I just installed a Sound Blaster RX 7.1 as my secondary sound card and it made a huge improvement (I was using onboard sound). After many SimHub adjustments the BK feels much better but I'm still up for suggestions on optimal mounting.
 
I used rubber bobbin mounts between the seat subframes and main rig frame. A ButtKicker is attached to the seat subframe.

Thanks. I think putting my seat on rubber bobbins/isolators is about the only thing I can do that will make an improvement although the new sound card sure did help.
 
Its definitely a pain. His post was on 2 Jan 2020. If the link below doesn't work search for " Clutch bite point".

I think this is the link:


For @KnIgHtCoM :

Trying to follow those links directly won't work, but this will.
- Copy the URL @vanka472 provided above to your clipboard
- Log onto your account on Discord
- In the left hand column, you should see a "+" icon that will say "Add a Server" if you hover over it
- Click on this icon
- A window will pop up with options to create or join a server
- Choose "Join a server"
- A window will appear with an option to "Enter an invite"
- Paste the URL from your clipboard
- Press "Join"
 
What are you guys think about this as my amplifier for the 2 Dayton exciter?
H25e1296788524d5ab21f1a78c193002bR.jpg
Link
Claims to put out enough power. Would annoy me that there's no on/off switch... you'd have to try and set the volume to the correct position every time you turned it on. It's certainly cheap, but I'd still prefer a tried and tested Nobsound, Fosi or similar amp for the additional spend. If you do get it, I'd recommend sourcing a 19v (or preferably 24v) power supply.
 
I’m guessing I’m in the minority of having a seat that I cannot properly install exciters/transducers on or at least install them easily. So for people in the same boat can someone give an opinion if installing exciters in a cushion to sit on and/or to lean on (for the back) will give the same feedback as if they were installed in the seat? I’m not sure how vibrations travel through material or objects or if sitting directly on exciters/transducers give too much of a direct feeling (do the vibrations need to be dampened or spread out before reaching the body?)

I did post that I bought a kit from Sim Racing Studios that included a ShakeSeat with 4 25w-16 Dayton pucks inside but I returned it as it was uncomfortable because of the hardness of my G-Seats seat. But I did like the feedback it provided whether it was realistic or not (Note: The kit also had a ShakeBack that touched the lower back and that was comfortable). My hope is to find small but powerful exciters that will be more comfortable to sit on (that does not sound right) than the Dayton pucks that are 25.4mm thick.
 
@McClusky : I'm really not sure if this helps in any way but I've done a description on how I "solved" that exact problem (not being able to attach the shaker directly to the seat):
https://www.racedepartment.com/thre...rade-for-tactile-feedback.185182/post-3199145

I never thought of an option like installing them into a cushion. I understand that you are looking for very small shakers for this type of application. I went for the "exoskeleton"-approach but maybe I was not inventive enough:)
In any way, please post about any update regardless of the "final" solution. Knowing that mine probably won't be "final":)
 
I’m guessing I’m in the minority of having a seat that I cannot properly install exciters/transducers on or at least install them easily. So for people in the same boat can someone give an opinion if installing exciters in a cushion to sit on and/or to lean on (for the back) will give the same feedback as if they were installed in the seat? I’m not sure how vibrations travel through material or objects or if sitting directly on exciters/transducers give too much of a direct feeling (do the vibrations need to be dampened or spread out before reaching the body?)

I did post that I bought a kit from Sim Racing Studios that included a ShakeSeat with 4 25w-16 Dayton pucks inside but I returned it as it was uncomfortable because of the hardness of my G-Seats seat. But I did like the feedback it provided whether it was realistic or not (Note: The kit also had a ShakeBack that touched the lower back and that was comfortable). My hope is to find small but powerful exciters that will be more comfortable to sit on (that does not sound right) than the Dayton pucks that are 25.4mm thick.

I have a Playseat Challenge (I know, I know...but I don't have a dedicated sim room, so it's my only option), and just today I took delivery of a pair of Dayton Audio TT25-8s and one of the Nobsound (snigger) USB amps. I just put the two pucks in a foam lumbar cushion and I can tell you, it definitely works very well indeed! I was surprised at just how strong the vibration is. You definitely feel it coming from one place, rather than an all over sensation as I suspect you'd get from more powerful shakers mounted to a sturdier rig, but it works very well and I can't feel them under the foam at all. The cushion was about £8 off eBay if I remember correctly.
 
Okay, it helps a lot, i think i got the basics now. I dont want to go only seat or only pedals so here is my setup idea:

2 NS01G
4 Dayton exciter

1st ns01g with 2 exciter connected to the bottom of my seat, these would be the road effects only, 2 sides separetly set up in simhub.

2nd ns01g with
1 connected to the back of the seat, that would be the engine effect and gear shift
1 connected to the brake pedal for wheel lock only.

How can i tell if i overwork the exciter?

I just bought the same exact same setup today! I was planning on having 2 under my arse, left and right, and two on the pedal base, left and right. But, I think your idea is better. I'm not sure how much left and right separation you get as I haven't hooked all of them up yet, but I can't imagine you'd get much of an idea of, e.g. left or right kerb, as on my rig at least, the whole thing vibrates.

I really like the idea of one shaker dedicated to engine and shift, and one for brake lockup, with the two arse shakers for road feel. If you get it set up before I do, please post your results!
 
I just bought the same exact same setup today! I was planning on having 2 under my arse, left and right, and two on the pedal base, left and right. But, I think your idea is better. I'm not sure how much left and right separation you get as I haven't hooked all of them up yet, but I can't imagine you'd get much of an idea of, e.g. left or right kerb, as on my rig at least, the whole thing vibrates.

I really like the idea of one shaker dedicated to engine and shift, and one for brake lockup, with the two arse shakers for road feel. If you get it set up before I do, please post your results!

Okay! I already got the exciters but the amp comes from china so it will take a little time i guess. :D
 
@ScreaminBejesus Thank you for the excellent advice you provided to help with the initial setting up and testing, using the online tone generator. I'm a dope and only just realised I'd mistakenly asked for this advice in your own personal build thread instead of here, where it should have been done. My apologies :redface:

I've quoted your advice below so that others will come across it:

"If you start with flat EQ, zero gain in the crossover filters, the sound card volume down, amp knobs at noon, and adjust in small steps, I don’t think you are at much risk of damage.

I used the test tones independent of SimHub just by directing Windows to send audio out to the appropriate sound card. As far as I could tell, this output is only “stereo aware,” so I had to make sure the exciters/transducers I wanted to test were plugged into the primary L/R output of the sound card I’d selected. Swapping around the plugs is a bit of a pain, but not a burden since you’ll be testing this equipment one channel at a time in this mode. Obviously, the in-game testing will give you much more flexibility to select and combine channels at will.

I didn’t find a way to send tone generator output through SimHub, but maybe others can chime to let us know if this can be done. I do know that some have created a kind of tone generator within SimHub by linearly assigning frequency output to RPM, but I didn’t want to be adjusting frequency with my foot, so didn’t pursue that path.

Yes, you will want to take notes. I started by sweeping through frequencies from 1 to 200 Hz, taking three sets of measurement for each channel. One where I looked for the lowest volume at which I could perceive any output at each frequency; a second where I found the output at each frequency clearly and distinctLy; and a third to find the limit beyond which the output became distorted, the transducer showed evidence of being overdriven, or other parts of the rig started to resonate. These peaks lead me later to my EQ adjustments."
 
The Dayton audio DAEX32EP-4 are great for the price and the direction that I would start with. First, figure out how many you want on your seat. On my bucket seat I will be running 8 exciters (still waiting on another shipment of those). Each one of those runs on 50w. Nobosound makes quite a few great amplifiers that can run those exciters. I went with the NS 01-G. They were about $25 and each amp can support 2 of those exciters.

I've just ordered a pair of those Dayton exciters and the NS 01-G and waiting for the exciters to arrive. The amp landed yesterday from Amazon. Adding them to my Inuke and Buttkicker/ADX Maximus setup.

Just gotta do some testing and work out where/how to mount them, and which effects to add once its all here.

At the moment I have all 3 units mounted in the centre of the rig, ADX under pedals, ADX on the back of the seat and the Buttkicker LFE central under the seat, so I'm hoping these will add some L/R effects, and possibly aim to get another pair so I can hook up all 4 corners of the rig, but I get the feeling these might need to go on the seat instead.
 

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