So What / How Do You Practice?

[Bonehead]

I am not a musician, however I have hundreds of real life track days in my Corvette Z06 and Miata here in Florida at Sebring, Daytona, Homestead, and Palm Beach International Raceway. Even as an instructor with 600+ days in the right seat, I always turn to racing sims to keep me fresh. I am not super fast in real life nor on any sim, however I always strive to be better and safe.

I would guess I spend 10 hours minimum a week driving a sim, and have so for over ten years. For example tomorrow I be at the real Sebring in my Miata, and tonight I will do at least twenty laps to warm my brain up. I'll also have a beer or two and watch in car videos for a half hour just because. I'll pick rFactor2 as they have the most accurate rendition in my opinion.

To be good at anything in life I have always felt that constant practice keeps one sharp, and everyone can learn more no matter how good they believe they are.

EDIT: Just for grins and chuckles, here is my Miata at a night Daytona event with 48 Porsche cars, a Daytona Prototype, Trans Am, Ferrari 458 along with a Ligier with five minutes to go. I also included a lap at Sebring in my Miata as reference if anyone would like to look at it.

I hope I don't wreck tomorrow.
Jack

 

[Amanda]

Interesting, I'm a guitar player and a sim racer as well

Here is a snip of one of the solos I had to create for my cousin's musics (still very raw, basic distortion which will be edited later, and it's not mastered or mixed yet as well).

ESPECIALLY the best musicians practice

Reminded me of the movie Whiplash and how much I appreciate Jazz.

I used to practice guitar for 8 hours a day for one year after getting my first guitar, but after that I just dropped it. Never had a teacher too.

Here is me doing one lap of the glorious 911 GTE on rFactor 2.

I'm also an amateur 3D artist, but I'll start my career soon. Here is my latest project, I just started a luxury bedroom.

 

[randMracer]

Matt Malone, Jimmy Broadbent, Empty Box...all of them manage to do exactly that for me. YMMV. Nicki Thiim might be that for some, as well as Gamer Muscle...

Nicki Thiim is the best. The rest you mentioned are just YouTubers and not professional drivers. The others are entertaining, but I like Nicki's insight when it comes to comparing sims vs. real driving. He's also a nut and makes me laugh.

 

[Case_]

@FlyGasm Well, like I said, your mileage may vary. Personally, I don't have any issues with the others being "just YouTubers" (there's nothing wrong with that IMO) and Nicki is a bit too crazy for my tastes a lot of the time. But I'm certainly not his target audience, so it makes sense I guess.

 

[Tbear]

Interesting, I'm a guitar player and a sim racer as well

Here is a snip of one of the solos I had to create for my cousin's musics (still very raw, basic distortion which will be edited later, and it's not mastered or mixed yet as well).

Here is me doing one lap of the glorious 911 GTE on rFactor 2.

This is WAY off topic and WAY out of my mind ... but I'm the OP so who cares.

Have you ever considered the soundtrack from your driving vid as musical notes? The down shifts, drawn out exhaust tones and tire screeches sound a LOT like overdriven guitar tones ... especially the down shifts.

Listen to you guitar composition and then listen to your drive at Spa going into Les Combs and through Malmedy. I think there is a lot of music there and could serve as inspiration for more.

Something to think about I never noticed before.

 

[Durge Driven]

Golf has things in common with sims

In both you drive something p
In sims lots of rookies "flog" cars, that's golf spelled backwards p

Both you block out all the noise till you can feel your heart beating
Both need lots of patience and consistency, just ask Tiger

 

[Benutzername]

I didnt do simracing for a while but started playing guitar.

This made me realise that i should do more focused guitar practice.

Simracing was just something i did. I wpuld be lost for hours trying to find a better laptime.
I want to be better at guitar more than i desire o be abetter simracer, but i feel the journey is more exhausting.

 

[Boby Kim]

I like the paralel of simracing with playing an instrument. The question would be: is a music playing person a better sim racer?

 

[Amanda]

Something to think about I never noticed before.

Well, I do think that 911 exhaust sound is music for my years Though I've never thought of it as being "music" per say.

 

[randMracer]

I started playing guitar in the 70's, still have my first guitar, a 75 Gibson SG. I come from the days of analog, where the only way to learn was pretty much by ear. Listening to LP's, reel to reel, 8-tracks and cassettes is how I learned. You could buy chord books of your favorite artist at the music store, but they never had detailed tabs like today.

Once you master the chord basics and dexterity, it's sooo easy to learn these days. Backing tracks, millions of YouTube vids, tons of websites with tabs freely available. Everything is laid out, you just have to make an effort. But in the long run, you're just copying the copier and learning technique.

I'm old school and prefer players that can express more with one note than a thousand notes. Playing with heart and soul is something you can't learn from YouTube videos. It just comes from living.

I listen to it all, but never really impressed with a lot of guitar players these days. Not saying there's not some great players out there, just not a lot that stand out...IMO.

Edit: In comparison, I guess you could say the same about old school drivers compared to today's drivers. Look at all the tools and technology the drivers have today compared to the drivers of the past.

 

[Mark Ratzenbacher]

Great topic !
There is a similarity, but also a big difference.

-There is only one physical fastest optimal "perfect" line on the racetrack, while in music there is no race to the finish.
-In music there is no perfect & optimal interpretation of a piece, the more ways you are able to interprete and freely improvise on the guitar, the more masterful your skill is.

Improvisation while racing is the most overlooked skill in my eyes.
These days people race against the clock and during races they are not able to improvise with other cars around.

Or everybody is playing solo instruments into turn 1, when it really is a big-band piece.

 

[bsmooth]

Not sure at what point you call yourself a guitar player or simracer, but I've hit those walls in both. When I first started trying to play guitar, it was probably 35 years ago and the guitar action was so bad, all the practice was pretty frustrating at best. I tried for about 2 years and finally quit, as I just never got anywhere. About 10 years ago I got the bug again, and picked up a used Taylor guitar. I got to a certain point and hit that wall again, but luckily I found Justin Guitar with Justin Sandercoe, and online lessons, which I didn't have 35 years ago. I'm pretty good at practicing, but its a long road to where I would call myself a guitar player, but then again I tend to be pretty hard on myself.
Sim racing was very similar, as I started with GPL, which even today is still used, but it was also one of the toughest to learn. But I had help, the memories of Clark, Fangio, Hill, Stewart, and so many others, then again there was the internet and so many friends and leagues, that I remember.
Practice is or can be boring, its up to you to make it interesting or mix it up and have some fun. Its also a matter of breaking things down, either to notes or apexes. Theres always something to learn.
Theres also a certain magic to doing either simracing or playing an instrument. It seems both have something to do with making hours disappear. Its like watching a great movie, everything else just goes away.

Just another similarity was Golf. I played for years, and finally couldn't seem to get better (the dreaded wall again). Finallly I went in and had my swing video analyzed . After an hour I went in with great expectations, for my conclusions and hopes of finally improving. I was basically told my swing had so may bad tendencies that I should just quit and start again.
So for years I was practicing bad habits, not good ones. I still played for years anyways, because I still enjoyed it

 

[BP]

I started playing guitar in the 70's, still have my first guitar, a 75 Gibson SG. I come from the days of analog, where the only way to learn was pretty much by ear. Listening to LP's, reel to reel, 8-tracks and cassettes is how I learned. You could buy chord books of your favorite artist at the music store, but they never had detailed tabs like today.

Once you master the chord basics and dexterity, it's sooo easy to learn these days. Backing tracks, millions of YouTube vids, tons of websites with tabs freely available. Everything is laid out, you just have to make an effort. But in the long run, you're just copying the copier and learning technique.

I'm old school and prefer players that can express more with one note than a thousand notes. Playing with heart and soul is something you can't learn from YouTube videos. It just comes from living.

I listen to it all, but never really impressed with a lot of guitar players these days. Not saying there's not some great players out there, just not a lot that stands out...IMO.

Edit: In comparison, I guess you could say the same about old school drivers compared to today's drivers. Look at all the tools and technology the drivers have today compared to the drivers of the past.

I learned Bass guitar in a similar way up until going to college, except it was during the late 90's/early 2000's: learned everything by ear...there's a feel/nuance to the way someone plays that is near impossible to notate, not to mention ways to achieve certain tones that you have to be creative to figure out (and much more satisfying if you do figure it out). YouTube came out shortly after I hit college...I too see it as a double-edged sword: I would have been much farther ahead technically in a shorter amount of time, but I'm not sure if I would have caught onto all those little nuances in tone and feel that clue you in on how that particular musician got that line played. I think TAB notation sucks for the same reasons: A lot of it is notated with only notes in mind and not tone or feel.

Similarly...watching someone on YouTube do a hotlap may show target speeds and the best lines, but the feel and nuances of inertia and the car's movements IRL (or in sim-racing, what the FFB is telling you), or how the driver's feet are attacking or modulating the throttle and brake may not be apparent...not to mention that it may not be obvious as to why certain choices are made.

Just thought of another music/racing analogy (maybe my string instrument brethren might relate): For most notes on stringed instruments, the exact same note can be played on at least 2 different strings. Depending on the situation, you might want to choose one string over the other(s); like being fluid with your movements vs. tone...or setting up the next notes better vs. playing in a more comfortable area of the neck. Similarly in racing, you may want to hit an apex at a certain speed, but that speed falls in a range where it's feasible to use either 2nd or 3rd gear when exiting. Second gear might get you out a little faster, but third gear might lower your chance of losing rear traction...or either gear might be the better choice for the next corner...how to know reliably which gear to choose?

I have a good handle on decisions like this with music, but this is sometimes an issue for me when trying to get better (and ultimately faster) at sim-racing. I sometimes think this issue is trivial, but then I always hear the fastest gains can be made by getting the highest corner exit speeds, especially when a long straight is next.

(As you can probably tell, I like this topic LOL)

 

[BP]

Improvisation while racing is the most overlooked skill in my eyes.
These days people race against the clock and during races they are not able to improvise with other cars around.

Or everybody is playing solo instruments into turn 1, when it really is a big-band piece.

No truer words have ever been spoken.

 

[BP]

Just another similarity was Golf. I played for years, and finally couldn't seem to get better (the dreaded wall again). Finallly I went in and had my swing video analyzed . After an hour I went in with great expectations, for my conclusions and hopes of finally improving. I was basically told my swing had so may bad tendencies that I should just quit and start again.
So for years I was practicing bad habits, not good ones. I still played for years anyways, because I still enjoyed it

Really liked your story...it's also a great example of where playing purely for fun, regardless of outcome is awesome...but also if you wanna make it to Carnegie Hall/the Masters/1st place in (insert famous race here): "perfect practice (and a really good instrument/set of golf clubs/automobile) makes perfect"

 

[Tim Meuris]

I register for a biweekly series and then start to practise the **** out of that car. Really trying to understand what the car does when changing certain setupvalues. Several evenings a week practising online with some friends and every night finetuning that setup some more, step by step. Simracing has become my nr 1 hobby and I can't get enough of it atm!

 

[JohnnyS96]

Well as a guy who plays guitar and does simracing aswell i can tell that they both require a lot of practice to get at a decent good level....for me my first target when i was playing guitar was to try and cover one whole song solo and everything even if it was very easy you have to start somewhere...the same applied to when i started racing online...i had a bit of experience behind the wheel but i knew i had to develop my driving skills so i started taking parts in club races and online races in general..my first target was to just finish a race without being lapped...next on the guitar part i started practicing some techniques i didnt have before..same applies to racing...for example i knew i was bad at braking..most of the time locking up when i pushed too hard so i started practicing my braking..first my movement on the pedal and then on the setup of the car like brake bias , brake pressure etc....and so i started improving my lap times and my consistency....another thing is that i started watching other guys play guitar and do song covers and i begun learning from them....now after much practice i can learn a song very quickly just from watching a cover without having the tabs..sometimes even by ear which i havent mastered yet and i think it is one of the most difficult things to learn on guitar and on music in general...same applies to racing aswell..i started watching and folloewing the lines of more experienced racers and started asking for help with my setup so i can get good at it aswell as driving....again after much practice and many races i manage to always challenge for top ten position even a top five and i have won a few races aswell...even a greek championship ..i still have things to learn for sure and i want to be a better driver myself because racing is one of the things that makes me happy and can always cheer me up......so to finish this small post i believe that practice is everything no matter how good you are or how talented you are at playing an istrument or racing or anything never give up on practicing and above all doing what you love!!

 

[Paco572]

Indica..

PACO

 

[BP]

One more and I'm done, I swear!

Music: A common technique used today to figure out really fast parts is slowing down the recording with special software (which can now be done to some extent with YouTube)...learn it perfectly at a slow speed, then gradually increase until you get there or reach your physical limit (which can also get higher with lots of practice).

Simracing: A common mistake (I'm definitely guilty of this) is trying to learn a track (or simply learning to drive fast) in too fast of a car too soon. Jump out of the GT3 or F1 car and perfect your lines in a Miata or a much slower open wheeler first, then step up to faster cars in time. It definitely works once you understand how that particular type of car grips the road best.

 

[Ghoults]

Perfect practice makes perfect. Practice in itself is just repetition. Do it enough times and you have memorized what you practiced. But if you focus on wrong things you are just learning bad habits. You may for example turn in too early into corners and the more laps you do the better you get at it. You may learn bad habits with throttle modulation if you only drive cars that don't punish you for mistakes. If you only drive gt3 cars you can smash the throttle on corner exits and jump on the brakes in braking zones. And there is no obvious penalty.

Doing more laps won't fix any of those issues. Good practice is identifying an issue and then working to fix it. Turn in too early and lose lap time? Solution is to not become better at it but to learn different way to drive the car into the corner. Identify what is wrong and fix the issue. Struggle with memorizing the track? Focus on making mental note everytime you brake. After small number of laps you should have all braking points in your brain and you can focus on making them perfect. If you just drive around and hope the track eventually just gets learned you are going to do a lot more laps and you'll crash all the time.

If you struggle with car spinning at corner exit the solution may not be to just drive slower. Solution could be how smoothly you come off the brakes, your downshifts (throttle blips and/or timing of your downshift in the corner) or just your line. If your driving style is on/off with super fast wheel movement and on/off throttle and braking practice is not doing much for you. Your inputs are too erratic to create a baseline where you could identify where doing things differently would provide a worse or better outcome. All you are doing is to learn how to spin the car in unpredictable fashion. And the more you practice the better you become at it.

Similarly you need to practice what you are going to do. If you practice for a race at 100% speed but then drive at 80% speed in the race your practice is not very useful. If you want to drive at 80% speed in the race then you should practice at 80% speed. If you slow down in the race your corner entries and exits the car will simply do different things and your practice is not helping you.

Perfect practice is when you have a plan. Driving around is just repetition. You learn by repetition but make sure you learn something that is valuable. If you take some time off from driving around and analyze your own driving you should find something you can work to improve. If you say you can't really analyze your own driving then either your inputs are too chaotic to establish any kind of baseline or you are not very good at analyzing yourself. But self analysis is just one part of practice. Not only do you want to become faster and more consistent but you also want to become better at spotting mistakes and fixing them. If you do 80% driving and 20% analysis you'll improve ten times faster than if you just drive around.