SEASON 10 Race 4 MELBOURNE INCIDENT REPORT

[David Turnbull]

in regards the valter incident, how can that be predictable? predictable is you driving the corner like youd normally do then ill overtake after the chicane, being predictable isnt brakin very early at the fastest part of the track on the racing line, what was i supposed to do? you dont take that corner like that on any other laps.

in regards the marko incident, i did say sorry, i did say id left very little room, i also said it wouldnt happen again, but thats lame eh? awe well accept the apology or dont.

edit: i was a bit angry last night when i posted, i tried not to be but it annoyed me how marko made jokes about the incident and spoke like there was only a tiny incident on the server, then to come on the forum and to see a video and report that sort of makes out that i ment to run him off the track it annoyed me no end, i admitted on the server that id purposly left little room, i didnt know of the contact, i wanted to give marko minimum of room so that he would struggle to pull a pass, we made contact and i take responsibility for the touch hence the apology 3 times now?

coming to the braking zone, i noticed marko might try and dive down the outside so i went deep in the braking zone, i lost control for a split second and the nose turned towards marko, he moves wider at this point, we get side by side i drop to 1st gear to give me enough traction to get to the next corner first, at the time from my cockpit view i thought id left marko minimum room to take the outside, he wouldve had 2 wheels on track and 2 on kerb, but during that id made contact with him forcing him wider over the kerb, the slide and the contact was the accidental part, but i did purposely leave little to room to work with but not purposly to force marko off the track.

all i can say AGAIN is sorry and that ive admitted my full role in this from the start, i david turnbull left far too little room for marko and in the future will not attempt to put up a fight defending my lead on the last lap of a race.

 

[Valter Ostman]

in regards the valter incident, how can that be predictable? predictable is you driving the corner like youd normally do then ill overtake after the chicane, being predictable isnt brakin very early at the fastest part of the track on the racing line, what was i supposed to do? you dont take that corner like that on any other laps.

in regards the marko incident, i did say sorry, i did say id left very little room, i also said it wouldnt happen again, but thats lame eh? awe well accept the apology or dont.

I'm sorry that I braked too early for your liking and made you lose time. I just thought I'd better let you two leaders go passed at once with no delay. Unfortunately you thought that I should go on like no blue flag existed through the high speed chicane. My intention was to slow down and let you by in the first part of the chicane.

 

[David Turnbull]

yes you shouldve went on like no blue flag exsisted until the next straight then either pulled over or let me try the pass, you did neither, you braked well before your normal marker on the racing line, you didnt move over, you couldve slowed half way along the straight, the best thing for you was just take your normal line, i was behind you not pulling out being impatient to get past, from the gap i thought youd take normal line then let by on next straight, it wouldve been the most obvious choice hence predictable, its nothing about my liking anyway valter but seems your being a bit defensive about this too?

apology is accepted by the way

 

[Valter Ostman]

yes you shouldve went on like no blue flag exsisted until the next straight then either pulled over or let me try the pass, you did neither, you braked well before your normal marker on the racing line, you didnt move over, you couldve slowed half way along the straight, the best thing for you was just take your normal line, i was behind you not pulling out being impatient to get past, from the gap i thought youd take normal line then let by on next straight, it wouldve been the most obvious choice hence predictable, its nothing about my liking anyway valter but seems your being a bit defensive about this too?

apology is accepted by the way

Thx, and I learned from you in this incident, and I will go on as usual on blue flag until a long straight makes it possible to go off line and slow down on the other side.

 

[David Turnbull]

i learned something too valter, that i shouldnt take for granted that what is in my mind is whats in others, im sorry for my part in it too i couldve backed off and waited

 

[Marko Vuori]

...

in regards the marko incident, i did say sorry, i did say id left very little room, i also said it wouldnt happen again, but thats lame eh? awe well accept the apology or dont.

Apology accepted. No problem with that.

edit: i was a bit angry last night when i posted, i tried not to be but it annoyed me how marko made jokes about the incident and spoke like there was only a tiny incident on the server, then to come on the forum and to see a video and report that sort of makes out that i ment to run him off the track it annoyed me no end, i admitted on the server that id purposly left little room, i didnt know of the contact, i wanted to give marko minimum of room so that he would struggle to pull a pass, we made contact and i take responsibility for the touch hence the apology 3 times now?

After the race I checked the replay of the incident, which changed my view of what had happened. Hence the tone right after the race might have been different from what I had in the original incident report. Your intentional move on the left towards me in the corner was something I first saw when watching the replay. I now understand your purpose was not to push me out of the track.

all i can say AGAIN is sorry and that ive admitted my full role in this from the start, i david turnbull left far too little room for marko and in the future will not attempt to put up a fight defending my lead on the last lap of a race.

Apology accepted. There is nothing wrong to defend position (be it 1st or 21st) on the last lap of a race, but you have to leave enough room for fellow drivers in side-by-side situations at all times. I think we got this incident sorted out now? I hope this helps to produce as exciting races as yesterday, but with less incidents

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

No incident to report.

Can we consider change the rules so that a drivers duty is to post a video of the incident and tell what they were thinking, then I will be in charge of solving it? I think it would work much better, not because I think I am so much smarter than everyone else, but because it is easier for me to be objective, without emotions and to the point.

My aim is that the incident thread will be much more to the point, so that new drivers easily can use them to learn/understand how we race at Presto GP.

 

[David Turnbull]

definatly marko, im glad you understand my intention wasnt to force you off, ive never done that and never will to another presto member, the intentional move to the left was to try and make it awkward for you, but it certainly wasnt ment to be contact throwing you over the kerb, i can only try learn from this incident and leave a bigger margin for error in future, maybe the situation, last lap, race defining move, added to the situation, we'll move on and i'll learn from it.

 

[David Turnbull]

No incident to report.

Can we consider change the rules so that a drivers duty is to post a video of the incident and tell what they were thinking, then I will be in charge of solving it? I think it would work much better, not because I think I am so much smarter than everyone else, but because it is easier for me to be objective, without emotions and to the point.

probably for the best nico, im absolutly and utterly crap at incident reports, i find it so hard to be objective that id rather i wasnt placed in charge of my own if this doesnt cause you undue stress then im all for your idea.

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

I made the thread to better illustrate my idea. In many ways our racing guidelines is the presedence created from all previous incidents. Therefore it makes sense to make it easy to look up previous incidents for future reference and general learning.

Obviously one can discuss and challenge me (in a different thread), and I will edit my posts accordingly to the majorities understanding.

 

[Steeve Fournier]

No incident to report! Solo/boring race from 1st to last lap!! haha!! Better that than an incident hehe!!

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

There's always a possibility to use Racejury, a group of drivers that are not racing in PrestoGP (3 or 5 to avoid deadlocks, that can include a representative from the League, ie The President ).. We had in SRS and it worked really really well, there were no quarrels as all incidents were reported to them directly and members that were involved in the incidents couldn't make decisions etc.. But that was completely closed process and here we have open discussion. But it could still work, then it would be a recommendation rather than a sentence (we had a penalty system in place thus it was impossible to keep the discussion public)
Upside: it's semi-anonymous (the members are known but their individual opinion/vote is not)
Downside: It's slow and complicated.

EDIT: Note, i have nothing against what ever Nico decides, there's 100% trust on sportsmanship.

 

[Peter Marshall]

Can we consider change the rules so that a drivers duty is to post a video of the incident and tell what they were thinking, then I will be in charge of solving it? I think it would work much better, not because I think I am so much smarter than everyone else, but because it is easier for me to be objective, without emotions and to the point.

My aim is that the incident thread will be much more to the point, so that new drivers easily can use them to learn/understand how we race at Presto GP.

Here is a video report of my incident with Anthony.

What Was I thinking?
I was thinking that I needed to pass Anthony to get on with my race; in my mind Anthony was "holding me up" [relative lap times] and I was at "risk" of being passed by Nico, and others, behind me.

I had made several attempts during previous laps without success, lost a place to Nico and then regained it. Closed in again....

What Happened.
I made the decision to apply pressure at every corner to force some sort of error out of him and thus create an opportunity for myself. The result is this video report.

I can not adequately describe the amount of frustration I felt at the time after this incident; perhaps best compared to a Green Ant bite or a Bee Sting.

How to avoid.
As I wrote in my previous post, I did not leave enough of a "safety margin" to match my skill level. My fault and poor judgement. I should have waited until Antony pitted or pitted myself instead...

The first two scenes are from my local replay file and the second two are from the servers.

P.S. Sorry Nico, sorry Anthony, sorry PrestoGP. I wish we could have incident free racing or at least automatically learn once and for all from the incidents we do have. I try, I really do try to not repeat my errors. It will not happen again, I will be less impatient and accept my track position.

 

[Nicolai Nicholson]

No need to say sorry to me Peter, I do not think incidents like this is a big crime, it is a result of chasing close (which we like) for many laps. All inn all you and Anthony lose one place and 3-4 seconds and could continue your battle.

I am rearly angry with the incidents themselves (we all can make mistakes), it is how we deal with it afterwards that is important.

I did a mistake very similar to yours, I rear ended Anthony while chasing, luckily he didn't spin or lose much time, nor received damage, thus it was not classified as an incident

 

[Reik Major]

We have discussed how to let lapping cars overtake without fighting back, but not necessarily leaving the racing line. A normal, slowing down a bit early to let you pass easily in a blue flag situation measure, from how I understand the agreement. I may well have misinterpreted what was said about letting lapping cars overtake smoothly.

Even though that case seems to be solved already I like to add my thoughts on this.

In general you're right Valter that overtaking for the lapping car shall be supported by the lapped car by making it easier for the lapper. What I like to add was never talked about before (I guess) but from my point of view it is clear that this agreement is related to those places on the track where overtaking in general is expected to happen. Otherwise a supporting move like slowing down will always take the driver behind by surprise. (It would have been a different story if David had already shown up next to you.)

 

[Jim Hawley]

I have to admit the guys towards the back are still too keen to let the lapping cars past, Vale jumped into the wall to let me past when I wasn't all that close or in a particular hurry to go through, followed by Kurt (I think?) slowed down as we approached fast left-right, though he did move off line to the left, again I wasn't very close and we could have gone through that section easily, the next straight/RH corner would have been much safer

Relax guys

 

[David Turnbull]

a few predictable, and a few unpredictable lapping moves, it all makes sense just to let the faster guy overtake, dont compromise your race too much diving out the way unexpectedly, it only leads to you loosing time and the faster guy having a nervous breakdown

 

[Kennett Ylitalo]

Mostly really good behavior. Personally, i would've waited all the way to T13 as the passing car most likely is so close behind by then that it can pass on it's own momentum and i don't even have to leave the racing line (or just take T13 wide if the passer doesn't get the message). But i know how it feels when the lapping car gets a real good exit and you didn't and he catches you way sooner than expected. Or when he doesn't get the exit and you will making you think too much and/or change your plan on-the-fly.

Racing games should have VOIP built-in and quick buttons for all/next/previous car... Chat can't be used as it robs one of the senses that need to be on target at all times. Does the backlight work in F3000? I could (possibly) mod it so that it doesn't cause online mismatches: connect it to headlights, you flick them on and backlight lits up.. That could be used as visual communication... Virtual rewiring

 

[Bob Laube]

No incident to report.( exept my own mistake on lap19 )


Thanks again Nico, Daniel, and Racedepartment!!

 

[Anthony Ishak]

I can not adequately describe the amount of frustration I felt at the time after this incident; perhaps best compared to a Green Ant bite or a Bee Sting.

Lol you do not need to have that feeling at all Peter or we cant have fun any more . We still have lots of races to go and i am looking forwards to repeat our battle that we started at nurberg . Yes i was holding you up and i was holding Nico and i guess Valter as well at some stage, i enjoyed every single turn while fighting with both of you and i had no plan to let any of you passing me that easy even it was clear that u were faster , and i am sure u did the same to me at previous race at nurberg , that is the ultimate fun in my opinion and am so happy with these cars that we finally are able to have so close fights , the risk is higher for sure when we go wheel to wheel battle and i rather go for the fun and accept that risk combined with some safety measures than to cruise the track alone with the absence of any fun .

I am enjoying my races this year especially that i have more drivers to challenge than before..