rF2 | November Development Roadmap - Formula E 2019/20!

How you were able to play & test it for 3 hours straight since Steam's refund policy is less than 2 hours as stated below:

"The Steam refund offer, within two weeks of purchase and with less than two hours of playtime!!
It's not hard and fast with the 2 hours, but if you go too far over it they won't do it.
You need to give good reasoning and evidence, and I think it also depends on your Steam account and play activity. It said 3 hours by the time I refunded, so I took a shot.
 

Enoneado

100RPM
What's that got to do with it?

I don't use a wheel because I don't have the space to have one set up on my workstation.
Using a controller it's easy pick up and play instantly whether in flatscreen or VR.

I'd love a wheel, but in my current situation having to spend 10 minutes each time at the start to set it up (clearing things away on desk, getting the contoller out, plugging it all in blah blah blah) and doing the same at the end would just kill any urge to play or practice. Even setting it up would be cramped in my current workstation setup. A controller is my best play option at the moment, out of necessity.

Other people don't have wheels because of cost or disability (which should not preclude them from playing and enjoying a game/simulator) or other reasons. And having a wheel is no guarantee you'll be a good racer anyway, there's a lot more to racing than that.
you can put it on the table and quit in one minute, you only have to tight the grabs to the table and the pedals at the floor, nothing more, i ask you about the price of your controller only and you didn't say nothing about it, i'm not a superfan of rf2, the UI is **** and they are very slow developing the game, but is not a sim for beginners, this is a hardcore simracing in development, you can't try to play with a simple controller, is like if you want to play "DCS world" with a simple gamepad or if you want to watch an VR video porn in a normal PC screen and you moan because you only see two simetric circular images of a naked girl...
 
It’s not elitism ( I hate that word) most of us around here are chasing immersion.
Personally I find no satisfaction and felt extremely disconnected from the sim when I tried a controller.
 
you can put it on the table and quit in one minute, you only have to tight the grabs to the table and the pedals at the floor, nothing more, i ask you about the price of your controller only and you didn't say nothing about it, i'm not a superfan of rf2, the UI is **** and they are very slow developing the game, but is not a sim for beginners, this is a hardcore simracing in development, you can't try to play with a simple controller, is like if you want to play "DCS world" with a simple gamepad or if you want to watch an VR video porn in a normal PC screen and you moan because you only see two simetric circular images of a naked girl...
That's a bit of a stretch. RF2 is no more "hardcore simracing" than AC or ACC is (despite whatever you may think about fizziks). A controller works just fine with AC, ACC and others. People also crap on about Elite Dangerous and how you "must use a joystick to play it properly" and it's totally playable with a controller. I have ~800hrs in ED to vouch for that. It's the same bogus argument wheelies make with racing games. And yes, you can also play DCS with a controller if you want.

No one disputes if you have the right level of wheel/pedals/cockpit setup (or joystick/throttle for flight sims) it's another level of immersion, but if you can't do that it shouldn't stop you from playing or even being competitive.

I use a Razer Wolverine and it's 1/2 the price of a decent wheel. Your assumption about setting a wheel up is also totally off base. How can you presume to even know what my physical situation looks like? You can't, yet you assume I have the same setup as you which is a totally wrong assumption.

Sure, one day I'd love to have a proper wheel/pedal/cockpit setup but it's not happening right now so I make do with a controller, as do a lot of people - whether you like it or not.
 
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Enoneado

100RPM
That's a bit of a stretch. RF2 is no more "hardcore simracing" than AC or ACC is (despite whatever you may think about fizziks). A controller works just fine with AC, ACC and others. People also crap on about Elite Dangerous and how you "must use a joystick to play it properly" and it's totally playable with a controller. I have ~800hrs in ED to vouch for that. It's the same bogus argument wheelies make with racing games. And yes, you can also play DCS with a controller if you want.

No one disputes if you have the right level of wheel/pedals/cockpit setup (or joystick/throttle for flight sims) it's another level of immersion, but if you can't do that it shouldn't stop you from playing or even being competitive.

I use a Razer Wolverine and it's 1/2 the price of a decent wheel. Your assumption about setting a wheel up is also totally off base. How can you presume to even know what my physical situation looks like? You can't, yet you assume I have the same setup as you which is a totally wrong assumption.

Sure, one day I'd love to have a proper wheel/pedal/cockpit setup but it's not happening right now so I make do with a controller, as do a lot of people - whether you like it or not.
i bought a DFGT wheel for 50€, guy, used, yes, but is to begin at this world of sims... and is so decent, i'm not assuming nothing about your situation, but a wheel only uses few cm2 of table, a decent controller is a ps3 gamepad that i used at the beggining, and was cheaper than that razer, can you see that i have less money than you assume, but the meaning i want to say is... without a wheel experience you can't sentence a factual opinion about RF2 like you wrote here. with a controller you only extract the 40% or 50% of the potential of the game.
 
i bought a DFGT wheel for 50€, guy, used, yes, but is to begin at this world of sims... and is so decent, i'm not assuming nothing about your situation, but a wheel only uses few cm2 of table, a decent controller is a ps3 gamepad that i used at the beggining, and was cheaper than that razer, can you see that i have less money than you assume, but the meaning i want to say is... without a wheel experience you can't sentence a factual opinion about RF2 like you wrote here. with a controller you only extract the 40% or 50% of the potential of the game.
You're assuming I haven't done my homework on RF2. I've done extensive research on it. I understand your point and know exactly what you're referring to in terms of wheel control and FFB etc, but that's only one factor that plays into a buying decision and product evaluation. I can do a relative comparison against other sims I own as well, bearing in mind I'm not getting a full wheel experience. There's also audio (not very immersive in RF2 tbh), graphics, UI, general UX, and other elements that make it a complete package.

The argument about "best fizziks" and "best ffb" is also way overrated.
For every hard core "RF2 has the best fizziks and FFB" fan I can show you someone saying the same about R3 or iRacing or [insert here]. Who's right? Well, they all are because they all offer a slightly different experience and I don't really think any of them are 100% realistic (for a number of reasons, but that's a bigger conversation)

To quote myself from before:
Where's the line drawn with wheels anyway, to distinguish one from "playing" vs "authentic"?
Does a $50 wheel with no FFB qualify someone as authentic because it's a wheel?
How about a $150 wheel tied to a rickety plastic lawn table and and using a sofa chair, with plastic pedals? Is that "authentic"?
Or is "authentic" only hifi FFB DD wheels (haha loser belties!) and a pair of sweet gloves while wearing a racing suit and helmet in your living room?
Even a full motion rig costing $20K is missing DANGER and other elements.
You are still missing many channels of real life data that are critical to accurately simulating a real life racing experience: g-forces, smell, taste, heat, cold, sweat, full body kinaesthetics, proprioception, and the big one DANGER. There are others no doubt.

A wheel experience gives you a little more, but there's still an awful lot missing from it being a "real" simulation.
 
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AyrtonForever

100RPM
Premium
You're assuming I haven't done my homework on RF2. I've done extensive research on it. I understand your point and know exactly what you're referring to in terms of wheel control and FFB etc, but that's only one factor that plays into a buying decision and product evaluation. I can do a relative comparison against other sims I own as well, bearing in mind I'm not getting a full wheel experience. There's also audio (not very immersive in RF2 tbh), graphics, UI, general UX, and other elements that make it a complete package.

The argument about "best fizziks" and "best ffb" is also way overrated.
For every hard core "RF2 has the best fizziks and FFB" fan I can show you someone saying the same about R3 or iRacing or [insert here]. Who's right? Well, they all are because they all offer a slightly different experience and I don't really think any of them are 100% realistic (for a number of reasons, but that's a bigger conversation)

To quote myself from before:
Where's the line drawn with wheels anyway, to distinguish one from "playing" vs "authentic"?
Does a $50 wheel with no FFB qualify someone as authentic because it's a wheel?
How about a $150 wheel tied to a rickety plastic lawn table and and using a sofa chair, with plastic pedals? Is that "authentic"?
Or is "authentic" only hifi FFB DD wheels (haha loser belties!) and a pair of sweet gloves while wearing a racing suit and helmet in your living room?
Even a full motion rig costing $20K is missing DANGER and other elements.
You are still missing many channels of real life data that are critical to accurately simulating a real life racing experience: g-forces, smell, taste, heat, cold, sweat, full body kinaesthetics, proprioception, and the big one DANGER. There are others no doubt.

A wheel experience gives you a little more, but there's still an awful lot missing from it being a "real" simulation.
oh my god, how many useless chatter to try to prove that you're right ... when you've tried a simulator with a steering wheel you can talk in an objective way, but as long as this doesn't happen the truth remains that you don't know what you're talking about, so what you say will remain always and only your opinion not supported by evidence. (before you ask, yes I tried simulators with both a controller and a joystick, so I rely on personal experiences, not on something I read on the net)
 

Ciccina2016

50RPM
Premium
Bringing the discussion back to the topic, do you think the new UI/Competition system is going to increase the number of players online?

I tried yesterday a couple of servers ( with no password) and there was no one connected.

I really want to try this game on multiplayer.
 

AyrtonForever

100RPM
Premium
Bringing the discussion back to the topic, do you think the new UI/Competition system is going to increase the number of players online?

I tried yesterday a couple of servers ( with no password) and there was no one connected.

I really want to try this game on multiplayer.
is what i hope for, without league racing the rf2 online is near inexistent. a working competition system (but it will be released after december i think) would be a good step forward. how much forward is the question :) rf2 deserves it without doubt
 

Ciccina2016

50RPM
Premium
is what i hope for, without league racing the rf2 online is near inexistent. a working competition system (but it will be released after december i think) would be a good step forward. how much forward is the question :) rf2 deserves it without doubt
I see.. so what we get from the update in December..
 

Enoneado

100RPM
You're assuming I haven't done my homework on RF2. I've done extensive research on it. I understand your point and know exactly what you're referring to in terms of wheel control and FFB etc, but that's only one factor that plays into a buying decision and product evaluation. I can do a relative comparison against other sims I own as well, bearing in mind I'm not getting a full wheel experience. There's also audio (not very immersive in RF2 tbh), graphics, UI, general UX, and other elements that make it a complete package.

The argument about "best fizziks" and "best ffb" is also way overrated.
For every hard core "RF2 has the best fizziks and FFB" fan I can show you someone saying the same about R3 or iRacing or [insert here]. Who's right? Well, they all are because they all offer a slightly different experience and I don't really think any of them are 100% realistic (for a number of reasons, but that's a bigger conversation)

To quote myself from before:
Where's the line drawn with wheels anyway, to distinguish one from "playing" vs "authentic"?
Does a $50 wheel with no FFB qualify someone as authentic because it's a wheel?
How about a $150 wheel tied to a rickety plastic lawn table and and using a sofa chair, with plastic pedals? Is that "authentic"?
Or is "authentic" only hifi FFB DD wheels (haha loser belties!) and a pair of sweet gloves while wearing a racing suit and helmet in your living room?
Even a full motion rig costing $20K is missing DANGER and other elements.
You are still missing many channels of real life data that are critical to accurately simulating a real life racing experience: g-forces, smell, taste, heat, cold, sweat, full body kinaesthetics, proprioception, and the big one DANGER. There are others no doubt.

A wheel experience gives you a little more, but there's still an awful lot missing from it being a "real" simulation.
i know what do you mean, i've only said that i thought like you when i started playing with controller (ps3 connected to PC, more difficult to adjust, sincerely), but the sensations with a wheel is another world, really, and between sims, RF2 is another world into the simracing world, i play AC and ACC and the sensations that i feel with RF2 is crazy, but you must configure fine the wheel too.
 
oh my god, how many useless chatter to try to prove that you're right ... when you've tried a simulator with a steering wheel you can talk in an objective way, but as long as this doesn't happen the truth remains that you don't know what you're talking about, so what you say will remain always and only your opinion not supported by evidence. (before you ask, yes I tried simulators with both a controller and a joystick, so I rely on personal experiences, not on something I read on the net)
Do you feel better after your little uninformed rant? Good for you!
(you should take a chill pill though, you might pop a vein if you keep going off like that)
 
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Emery

2000RPM
Bringing the discussion back to the topic, do you think the new UI/Competition system is going to increase the number of players online?
The UI? No, it will not bring more players online. The UI, the beta version to be released in a couple weeks, will not even include the competition system. We have not even heard an announcement of when to expect the competition system! For now, join a league. Oh, we do know the number of AI players vs. human players will be visible in the new UI.

Heck, even the competition system details have not been announced. Everything you've heard is speculation. There's no clue if S397 will run more servers than they currently do for their competitions. No clue as to whether there will be open servers running on a schedule like iRacing, no clue whether league servers can easily be rolled into the system, no clue whether there will be any fees, etc.
 

Ciccina2016

50RPM
Premium
The UI? No, it will not bring more players online. The UI, the beta version to be released in a couple weeks, will not even include the competition system. We have not even heard an announcement of when to expect the competition system! For now, join a league. Oh, we do know the number of AI players vs. human players will be visible in the new UI.

Heck, even the competition system details have not been announced. Everything you've heard is speculation. There's no clue if S397 will run more servers than they currently do for their competitions. No clue as to whether there will be open servers running on a schedule like iRacing, no clue whether league servers can easily be rolled into the system, no clue whether there will be any fees, etc.
Ok ... indeed I could not find any exhaustive info regarding this.
 

tr1v1um

100RPM
Ok ... indeed I could not find any exhaustive info regarding this.
It isn't a necessity that the UI will bring more players online. But it should help finding proper lobbies alot more easier and thus provide a better online experience as a whole, wich as a result could indeed bring more players. One of my biggest complains right now with rF2 is setting up lobbies, checking the used content and filtering out AI from the servers, wich is one big reason that only few people play rF2 public. If they can fix those issues and provide a few nice official servers, I see no reason why people won't join online races. Right now it simply isn't possible to host a fast online race with your friends without reading through tutorials, wich is a shame. Next to the fact that there have been some nice official races with 40+ drivers in the past. If they provide those events on a regular base and make it easy to join, it's half the bill allready.
 

dajdosta

100RPM
oh my god, how many useless chatter to try to prove that you're right ... when you've tried a simulator with a steering wheel you can talk in an objective way, but as long as this doesn't happen the truth remains that you don't know what you're talking about, so what you say will remain always and only your opinion not supported by evidence. (before you ask, yes I tried simulators with both a controller and a joystick, so I rely on personal experiences, not on something I read on the net)
But do you play with VR and motion rig?
 

Nevini

100RPM
Premium
That's simply a childish response calling one group elitist................

This is the reality, Rf2 was designed primarily with a wheel in mind..
You can use a gamepad however you are missing out what makes this game great.

Forza was designed primarily with a gamepad.

I use the correct tool for the job.
Rf2, wheel
Forza, gamepad
GT Sport wheel sometimes gamepad (That's an odd one)
DCS, Hotas
Doom, mouse and keyboard
Mario Kart 8 gamepad.

Back in the day GP2, Joystick ;-)

As a rule I use a gamepad with Arcade racers and a wheel with Sims.
 
That's simply a childish response calling one group elitist................
...

As a rule I use a gamepad with Arcade racers and a wheel with Sims.
That's a little ignorant about why people use gamepads vs wheels.
Most of the conversation here has been about trying to educate RF2 fanatics about why people use gamepads, not to dispute that a wheel can offer you another level of immersive experience (bearing in mind my previous points about wheel quality which varies a lot)

I based my initial refund on issues getting it working with the controller (as it states on the store "partial controller support").

So in the interests of fairness I decided to give RF2 another go while it was still on sale and re-bought it and gave it another shot. Just because I don't have a wheel doesn't mean that I can't evaluate a sim, and it's silly to state otherwise. A sim is supposed to be a complete experience, and while the control aspect is a major part it's not the only part.

RF2 has an annoying first time UX in that it won't recognize the controller I have, but that's solvable by loading XBox preset and saving it as a new one. This time I solved the missing gamepad FFB/Rumble with https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/how-to-enable-the-controller-vibration-in-rfactor-2.22341/ as it has a solution for XBox one type controllers.

The gamepad feedback is markedly different from other sims. It's very strong in comparison. After a bit of use I really like it, I can see why people do as it must carry through to wheel FFB. It's obviously a big factor why people get hooked on it. Driving the Lotus 49/Britus49 was a blast, compared to AC and PC2 versions. There's also another level of subtle visual feedback at speed driven by vibrations which is nice, different from the AC/PC2 versions. RF2 grip is different as well. I can see why people like it, but is it "better"? That seems to be personal preference, so lets not go there.

Graphics seem a little cartoonish to me sometimes, what I'd call a "light anime" style. Sometimes it seems "realistic", other times it's a mix of stylistic and non-realistic. Mainly it's just with some car cockpits, but sometimes I see other stuff that seems a little stylistic. It's not bad and I don't really mind it, but it's not as "realistic" as AC+CM/CSP or ACC. Some texturing is also really low quality. Weather FX are a little naff as well. I guess they are limited in what they can do with the graphics now though, it's a big job to redo that.

Audio is good, but again it's not as immersive as ACC. It seems quite a narrow spread in my headphones, but the mix and detail of sounds is good.

UI/UX is mixed. I like some aspects, but others like the clickthroughs to get color variations is a pita. The car list is really limited in terms of searching by tags or categories etc. They really need a UX person to go over it and redesign it, it's clunky.

I downloaded a few missing tracks like Brands Hatch, Spa etc but content wise it's not up to the same level of available mods etc as a sim like AC or OOTB PC2. That said, the Reiza pack tracks are really great and easily stand up to the best of other sims.

VR setup is a little clunky, another UX issue. Tested on a Rift V2 and it seems pretty smooth. Quality seems ok, though getting a bit of glitching on some road textures at times. The menu positioning is a bit close.
Tracks seem visually pretty basic compared to other sims.

Car behavior off-road on grass or sand is a bit weird. The textures are completely flat but the behaviour even at very low speed is like you're driving on a heavily corrugated dirt track. Kind of immersion breaking.
I also saw some strange physics behavior with a car getting flung about 20m into the air on a low speed collision into a wall. A bit unrealistic.

Overall I think it's a great sim and I'll keep it this time now I have the controller working properly.

Like all of them it has pros/cons, and I think they're all great to play to appreciate different dev team approaches - even with a controller.;)
 
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