Race #11, Japan: Post-Race Checks

[Norbert Leitner]

That I dont understand Norbert. If you use LC without any LC override tricks, the rpm will never go below 3000rpm

You tried it without clutch help?

 

[Georg Winter]

You tried it without clutch help?

Ya. I started at Indy in WC and crashed into an FTS car, which was standing on his Grid spot
PS: And I even only had a button assigned at clutch and no pedal

 

[Norbert Leitner]

Ya. I started at Indy in WC and crashed into an FTS car, which was standing on his Grid spot
PS: And I even only had a button assigned at clutch and no pedal

Than FTS car is different to other teams car

 

[Georg Winter]

Just to clearify it how we use LC ^^
Neutral-->press and hold LC button(car switch automatically to 1st gear)--> full throttle --> release LC Button ---> keep full throttle

 

[Dmitry Zaharov]

I generally agree with using LC, it's too easy to spin off the line on cold tyres. In real F1 they use special engine maps for start procedure with less torque to help drivers to get off the line safely. We don't have such luxury obviously so it's fair enough to use LC. I don't want to be taken out by someone else just on the grid after weeks of testing and I bet everyone else too.

 

[Carlos Martín]

Then has nothing to do with Saturday launch I believe since in Ace the Auto-Clutch is allowed.

 

[Morgan Morand]

We override The launch control procedure because the RPM of LC is really too low. We need a very very short 1st gear to have a fast launch. The major problem is we cannot change that RPM to be optimized with the torque or gear ratio.
We override the LC too because if you stay with LC after your start, the car doesn't accelerate as fast as when you override it. ( TC handicap )

i always said in WC we need to ban that LC. We have enough skill to use the clutch without difficulties. Of course, it can cause drama if we stall... Like i did in Long Beach 3.5 Winter series.

 

[Carlos Martín]

Like i did in Long Beach 3.5 Winter series.

I was behind Patrick and after 2 seconds I saw the sky

 

[Georg Winter]

We override The launch control procedure because the RPM of LC is really too low. We need a very very short 1st gear to have a fast launch. The major problem is we cannot change that RPM to be optimized with the torque or gear ratio.
We override the LC too because if you stay with LC after your start, the car doesn't accelerate as fast as when you override it. ( TC handicap )

i always said in WC we need to ban that LC. We have enough skill to use the clutch without difficulties. Of course, it can cause drama if we stall... Like i did in Long Beach 3.5 Winter series.

Or the other possibility would be, that EVERYBODY have to use the LC without TC Override. Than its for everybody the same and you have no disadvantage

 

[Carlos Martín]

Or the other possibility would be, that EVERYBODY have to use the LC without TC Override. Than its for everybody the same and you have no disadvantage

I always used the Override and I had 0 incidents in the first meters. The problem in this race was the antistall. If Norbi would have used the TC he wouldn't have stalled.

I would like to see next year in WC everybody forced to use the TC Override.

 

[Paul Brennan]

Any driving mistake that costs others their race should be penalised imo...an following the season upto now i think the directors been rather lenient and when hes tried to assert the standard of racing he wants... the pens are overturned...anyways like most neutrals, really looking forward to COTA..gl both

 

[Adrian Rodriguez]

that can actually happen even with no LC-trick or wtv. For example we had at Twister once too long first gear, and it did that, antistall all the time.. we had to change gears.

Y, anyway as u said u know about that, and you correct. If FTS or Leitner not correct it would again be his responsibility.

 

[John-Eric Saxén]

I didn't manage to re-produce anti-stall during launch control, even with mega long first gear and clutch assist off. Maybe Marcel could explain what is going on since it happened to him so many times in WC starts. To me it still seems like something out of normal procedure happened.

 

[Carlos Martín]

Change the final ratio, maybe it's the reason.

 

[Jernej Simončič]

He had LC and 30% of throttle I think.

Anyway, I don't know how there could have been that many incidents when there was no LC... I did two GPVWC races some months ago, there is no LC, and noone crashes. And it wasn't even the top division.

I think there's more fun in holding clutch and half of throttle and releasing clutch and controlling the wheelspin with the throttle pedal, even if we don't have special torque maps and double clutch. More fun than holding two buttons and controlling wheelspin by... tapping a button.

Also John why do you say "more realistic", is FSR trying to be as close to F1 as possible or what? This might be really offtopic, but we (or at least I) don't have any fun copying F1 tracks, DRS, dirty air and stuff. I think there's muuuch more fun when having 10% of dirty air than we have now. Why do we simulate something that kills racing? More real wins over more fun for you?

I have the nostalgy: 4 years ago in a race with friends: a car in front of me, can't wait to close in and have a great battle. Nowadays: a car in front of me, oh no I'm screwed up, I gotta change strategy, maybe let's try to pass noooo tire just went 2% in one single corner...

Maybe worth of another topic: noone ever talks about using some non F1 tracks. We keep using some of the modern f1 track which are basically 2 weeks of frustration. But there are some amazing track which are pure joy just to drive, and we still rather copy F1. At some of our tracks I just wanna quit because it's no joy at all. You know what would be joy? To use F1 tracks that were too dangerous in reality. They aren't too dangerous for us. Forget Bahrain, new Hocke, Melbourne, think about Old Spa and Nordschleife. USA also has some fantastic tracks like Road America that noone ever thinks about. I wouldn't be able to sleep for two weeks as I'd be so excited. Then here comes Bahrain, meh, I rather go for a walk than race there.

Btw I'd like to say a big thank you to all the admins that keep FSR running I hope the future gets sorted out and the league lives further. I could go to other league but you guys make FSR so nice that I rather complain about tracks here

 

[Georg Winter]

You should take this post into the FSR situation thread jernej
I think this is something what is worth to discuss

 

[Morgan Morand]

He had LC and 30% of throttle I think.

Anyway, I don't know how there could have been that many incidents when there was no LC... I did two GPVWC races some months ago, there is no LC, and noone crashes. And it wasn't even the top division.

I think there's more fun in holding clutch and half of throttle and releasing clutch and controlling the wheelspin with the throttle pedal, even if we don't have special torque maps and double clutch. More fun than holding two buttons and controlling wheelspin by... tapping a button.

Also John why do you say "more realistic", is FSR trying to be as close to F1 as possible or what? This might be really offtopic, but we (or at least I) don't have any fun copying F1 tracks, DRS, dirty air and stuff. I think there's muuuch more fun when having 10% of dirty air than we have now. Why do we simulate something that kills racing? More real wins over more fun for you?

I have the nostalgy: 4 years ago in a race with friends: a car in front of me, can't wait to close in and have a great battle. Nowadays: a car in front of me, oh no I'm screwed up, I gotta change strategy, maybe let's try to pass noooo tire just went 2% in one single corner...

Maybe worth of another topic: noone ever talks about using some non F1 tracks. We keep using some of the modern f1 track which are basically 2 weeks of frustration. But there are some amazing track which are pure joy just to drive, and we still rather copy F1. At some of our tracks I just wanna quit because it's no joy at all. You know what would be joy? To use F1 tracks that were too dangerous in reality. They aren't too dangerous for us. Forget Bahrain, new Hocke, Melbourne, think about Old Spa and Nordschleife. USA also has some fantastic tracks like Road America that noone ever thinks about. I wouldn't be able to sleep for two weeks as I'd be so excited. Then here comes Bahrain, meh, I rather go for a walk than race there.

Btw I'd like to say a big thank you to all the admins that keep FSR running I hope the future gets sorted out and the league lives further. I could go to other league but you guys make FSR so nice that I rather complain about tracks here

I'm agree with you mate.
I'm using LC only in FSR. Of course, it avoids some crashes during the start but we'll never see a guy starting 5th being 1st after turn 1.
For no-F1 tracks, sure there are some great places to race. You talked about Road America but we can talk about Bathurst, Laguna Seca, Golden Coast, Sears Point which are F1-like. or even Algarve track which are FIA rules built.
After i think FSR has the philosophy to use only real F1 tracks : of course the question can be asked about using non-F1 tracks but i doubt everybody will be fine with it. It will be a major change.

 

[Martin Hodás]

Anyway, I don't know how there could have been that many incidents when there was no LC... I did two GPVWC races some months ago, there is no LC, and noone crashes. And it wasn't even the top division.

I was driving for years in leagues, where was LC disabled almost every year. There were also drivers at the end of the pack, who struggled with pace, but still were really clean and were able to start without LC and without any problems related to it.

And its very easy even without brake maps and two clutches. FSR shoudl be pinnacle of league F1 simracing, and its weird, that on this level we arent able to block LC. Tbh, I saw more start crashes right on the grid this year, than in my whole carreer - and we have LC.

But Ive to admit, that this decision was primarily related to smoke produced by wheelspin during winter series. But it this problem will be or is gone, we should ban LC immediately.

 

[David Dominguez]

It's funny how everybody says that you have never seen problems at starts with manual start in your home leagues, in my case it's totally the opposite, I remember problems almost in every race with people losing the control easily. It turns out that it also happened in FSR in the past, so I don't know what to think, either I had really bad luck or you guys come from really special leagues.

Speaking of tracks, how is old Spa any challenging and/or interesting? It's the most boring track possible for a modern F1 car, 95% of the lap full throttle on neverending straights. Bahrain's T10 alone is more interesting than a full lap at old Spa. Nordschleife is simply not suitable for that kind of cars.

Edit: I was actually interested to see how far I was from my estimated throttle usage at old Spa, so I went to track in AI mode, then checked telemetry and ... 95,55% average throttle per lap with default setup

 

[Jernej Simončič]

Yeah it's very subjective indeed. If we had old Spa, indy 500 and Reims it would get boring. But just one race at average speed over 300kph with a lot of slisptreaming and those long almost flatout corners... I miss high speed in F1 tracks, and when there's high speed it ends in a bloody hairpin There needs to be more diversity, if we get all the spectrum between Monaco and old Spa every race is it's own challenge.

FSR philosophy, it has ground in the decision to follow F1? We can stay with the philosophy and stay on the great F1 tracks like Spa, Monza, Suzuka and at least change the less interesting tilkedromes for some non f1 tracks, it's not big deal at all. FSR will most probably never race on old spa and nords, but I write this here because I see no well grounded reason why it wouldn't and I see good reasons why it should.

How is Nordschleife not suitable? F1 cars can drive there no problem at all. We even had bumpier tracks this season xD

Sorry for the offtopic again..