PC2 Project CARS 2 announced with crowdfunding options

[Alex Franchini]

Slightly Mad Studios has officially announced a sequel to Project Cars today as Project Cars 2 is now official, and the WMD crowdfunding campaign has gone live.

Apparently the first big difference with the first title is that PCars 2 will feature off-road racing, along with Touge and Hillclimb events.

The crowdfunding tool-packs, which you can see on the WMD page, start from 50 British pounds and go all the way to 10,000 pounds.

Here's the shortlist of the PCars 2 features:

• THE LARGEST TRACK ROSTER EVER – 50 unique locations and 200+ courses including ‘loose surface racing’ on dirt, gravel, mud, and snow. All will have dynamic time of day and weather allowing you to play anytime, anywhere

• THE WIDEST VARIETY OF MOTORSPORTS with 8 different disciplines now including Rallycross, Hillclimbs, and Touge. 200+ cars from over 40 different vehicle classes including never-before-seen Concepts and Banned Race Cars

• CO-OP CAREER – Play as the Teammate Driver, Spotter, Driver Swap, or Co-Pilot. More choices, more opportunities, more strategy, greater risks and greater rewards

• SEAMLESSLY CONNECTED – Socialize and compete via Online Track Days, have players from around the world take the place of AI-controlled drivers in your solo play, and get news updates on the Driver Network around you

• PRO ESPORTS RACING – Skill & Behavioural-based matchmaking, create your own Online Racing Leagues, and Live Broadcast and Spectator functionality

• YOUR HOME FOR RACING – Your own personal, customisable Test Track to tune and test your cars. Invite others to showcase your passion for racing and learn race craft and engineering with the Project CARS Academy

Update: First videos already out on YouTube
Update 2: Videos have been removed from YouTube

 

[Torcano]

Ehh, I did buy into the whole crowd funding thing way back when SMS started it because of the way they marketed it... I paid the junior tier amount for monthly builds. Only did that back then because I saw them harping on and on about their pedigree with GTR2 in every single sodding interview and how they wanted to make a pure sim. And that is what I expected from them, maybe I expected too much... and no, this is not even nostalgia speaking right here, I fire up GTR2 more than PCars to this day simply because it is better. Right now the game on the surface has a few features present in GTR2 but could not hold a candle to that title. Better yet, a bunch of people who rightfully pointed of the flaws, even minor things like texture bugs during the "Guys, it's pre-alpha, don't judge the game too hard" phase got swept under the rug and even banned for pointing out issues.

Just the fact that it contains the same menu music as GTR2 annoys me for some reason, it's like going around to my house and punching my old cuddly dog in the face. Feels like a bunch of idiots patting themselves on the backs and pointing and laughing at everyone else who is perplexed by their way of doing things.

Maybe others enjoy that game, more power to them, but for me personally it's goodbye PCars. Got no time for a title whose main goal is to milk consumers rather than provide quality. What a load of steamy .

 

[Richard Eriksson]

I will reiterate this... The hostility WITHIN WMD and the way some key investors treat others WILL bring the model down.

They tell you you will have a say, but you dont. Apart from that they will ban you from expressing criticism and the seniors will bully you like mean kids all over the net.

This WILL get even uglier. But Mr Bell has always been a guy with a grand ego and will blame the community. For reference, see his falling out with SB staff over GTR and who did what on that title. Or the hostile attitude to some of his earlier coworkers...

 

[LTC_Mike]

Wow, awaiting a lot of "thumbs down" ... but I am a little impressed that so many people hating pCARS and SMS invest so much time in expressing how bad these two are

Never mind ... some mentioned that a simulator is always the base for more development on this ... well I have a lot more personal experience in the flight simulation stuff - maybe the mother of the simulation genre at all - and take a look at the "bases" out there ... X-Plane: had several instances and none compatible to the former ... MS Flight Simulator franchise: well, there is still a base and lots of DLCs, but ... the rest is history ... others: some took a long time to grow up to just get abandoned when they were nearly there...

Now driving simulators: rF1: yes, a long time supported by a large community ... and just brought to steam by its developer with minor improvements, but is it really up to date so a lot of people will invest there any further?... the successor rF2: still in Beta ... R3E: still Beta with lots of DLCs as a business model ... AC: released as final product about half a year ago, still lots of issues and bugs and incomplete functions and now the devs are talking about porting it to consoles as well ... iRacing: seems to me the only true base a dev has built upon its business model?!

They are moving over 70% of the team away from pCars 1, a game that have many bugs, missing features, and generally feels unfinished. That means the way forward will be slower.

The crowdfunding they don't need. As Mr.Bell stated himself "We have enough money for making pCars 2".

Well, SMS/Ian Bell stated that about 40 people (developers etc.) from the core unit will keep pCARS1 supported over the time (2 years after release are still commited) ... that's a lot more only for product support than KUNOS seems to have for the whole development process including the shift over to produce a console version, too (with which we will see AC 2.x for PC as well more sooner than later, I assume)

The realities are SMS need to release another game in 2-3 years time or they will go bankrupt. In order to release a game in 2-3 years time they need to start work now. The only difference with SMS and other developers is because of the open development you get to see this. With most other developers you do not know when they start work on their next game.

I worked for Blimey during development of GTR2. Blimey started work on their next game at least 9 months BEFORE GTR2 was released. But this wasn't public so no one outside Blimey knew this.

I'm far more concerned about developers who are not working on their next title.

Yes, that's it ... and I think the new "crowdfunding" is not so much for financing the development of pCARS2 but to have only people involved in this that are really interested in the develompment process and further improvements.

As someone over at the pCARS1 public forum stated they will have to improve the current engine a lot, just to get the current tire model work with off track racing - so it will need some time and money to get this right alone.

And last: no one is forced to get involved and those who have bought pCARS1 already and have issues can either throw away what they have bought or hope that most of the issues get sorted and fixed ... that's game business since many years and if I think back how much money I have wasted in games that were lightyears worth than pCARS1 and never get any bug fix at all ... well, then I don't worry that pCARS1 gets a lot better in the near future (look at AC or rF2 or R3E ... how long are the bugs lists there and how much is demanded to get fixed? Just remember the open letter from RD recently: KUNOS never stated any answer, or am I wrong, or even solved any issue brought up?)

 

[Mark Shaw]

<Mod Edit: No need to swear like that.>
I have completely lost faith in this company and WILL NOT be giving another dime for anything else they release.

 

[Mark Shaw]

Don't know why so many people are annoyed. They aren't abandoning the bug fixes for project CARS (1) or the DLC plans.

The games sounds amazing and the only reason this has been announced early is so they can get the crowdfunding up and running

Who releases another game when the first one is not even complete ? This makes not sense and your logic is flawed because there is none. This is obviously a money making scheme and more hype in the making. All they are doing is spreading themselves thin by having no focus; it's like a fair grounds of racing; rally, f1, road cars, up hill, come on. How about getting officially licensed F1 cars or some Ferrari's or Lambos ? The reason they don't is because it would cost money that they would rather take than give. They are certainly living up to their names "slightly mad"; if they keep it up they're gonna tank the whole thing and just piss a lot more people off. If you wanna give them another 50 bucks be my guest.

 

[Msportdan]

to be fair its not so much the announcement of pcars 2 (tbh i couldnt give a crap about pcars2) but ian bell-ends unprofessional, ignorant and obnoxious behaviour towards his customers....

If i went into a bmw garage and said well i want it in blue, but i definitly need heated seats. and he came back with this blinder.

"Probably not sorry.

Also again guys with the 'need' word. A custom championship does not 'NEED' to be added by any means. You might 'like' it to be added, but that's an entirely different thing."

I would be complaining to bmw head office!!!

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

Well, SMS/Ian Bell stated that about 40 people (developers etc.) from the core unit will keep pCARS1 supported over the time (2 years after release are still commited) ... that's a lot more only for product support than KUNOS seems to have for the whole development process including the shift over to produce a console version, too (with which we will see AC 2.x for PC as well more sooner than later, I assume)

Yes, as I said, less than 30% of the workforce as left on pCars 1. To focus on missing features, all the bugs and monthly DLC's, that sounds to me like a task they will not manage to fulfill.
Assetto Corsa have been out for 7 months now, and is still supported, no timeframe for the "stop" for Assetto Corsa though. Unless you meant in terms of manpower, then indeed. The remaining pCars 1 workforce is more than twice as large as the whole Kunos,

And last: no one is forced to get involved and those who have bought pCARS1 already and have issues can either throw away what they have bought or hope that most of the issues get sorted and fixed ... that's game business since many years and if I think back how much money I have wasted in games that were lightyears worth than pCARS1 and never get any bug fix at all ... well, then I don't worry that pCARS1 gets a lot better in the near future (look at AC or rF2 or R3E ... how long are the bugs lists there and how much is demanded to get fixed? Just remember the open letter from RD recently: KUNOS never stated any answer, or am I wrong, or even solved any issue brought up?)

They can throw it away, or, for some, if they have played it smart, can still get a refund from Steam!
And yes, there have been tons of games that have been worse, and got a tiny amount of support, that doesn't make it any better to release a game that is bug-ridden, and moving over with the clear majority of the workforce to the next game, before the first is anything close to finished.

And regarding the open letter, Kunos and AC. I was at the press event at Vallelunga, I bought AC the day it was released on Early Access. I still haven't clocked in 10 hours in the game.That is how disappointed I am in the game, and if Steam Refund had been a chance at that point... well... that's completely Off-Topic!

 

[Micas_WMD]

I will reiterate this... The hostility WITHIN WMD and the way some key investors treat others WILL bring the model down.

This thread is terrific. Of the last couple of pages I read, this ^ comment was the best.

What we're trying to do is eliminate the hostility in WMD by only allowing people who understand how to communicate criticism to join. Everyone else will get banned. It is literally impossible to "bring the model down" because there will always be sensible people who want to join in the process. Nothing that anyone here says will change that. Nothing anyone says here will stop pCARS 2 from getting made. What everyone says here helps us immeasurably, so thank you.

The tool pack buy-ins are optional. Nobody is forced.

Apparently this will come as a shock to many, many people, but development on sequels very often begins before the previous iteration is completed. A studio needs to keep everyone productive, and so they move to the next project. Those that bug-fix, bug fix. SMS simply showed the world what nearly every other AAA dev studio does, which is be productive. Now everyone wants to be an arm-chair studio head and explain to Ian how he should run a company that grossed more than 60 million euros in one month of release. One month. On a new IP.

I think you guys should band together, pool your resources, and start your own studio. That's essentially how Ian and many of the guys at SMS got started. No doubt you'll do it so much better than Ian has because of all the great and fantastic ideas you have.. such as having render coders fix AI bugs, or vehicle artists work on physics. You'll know how to communicate to the army of anonymous web critics that want nothing more than your failure. Then you'll certainly be able to raise millions in budget money simply by asking for it. Making the game will only take 6 months, and you'll never face any unexpected events that push that schedule out. Your first game will, naturally, score so much better than the "mid 80s" (which is a really good score these days).

And finally.. you'll make millions. I have zero doubts about that. So, who's going to head the studio and get it started?

 

[LacSlyer]

This thread is terrific. Of the last couple of pages I read, this ^ comment was the best.

What we're trying to do is eliminate the hostility in WMD by only allowing people who understand how to communicate criticism to join. Everyone else will get banned. It is literally impossible to "bring the model down" because there will always be sensible people who want to join in the process. Nothing that anyone here says will change that. Nothing anyone says here will stop pCARS 2 from getting made. What everyone says here helps us immeasurably, so thank you.

I'm not sure what you're missing, but there's clearly a lack of sympathy for the hostility the official site members, mods, and developers show for good reason. And it's not because people get banned.

Nothing will stop pCARS2 from getting made, I agree. However, its success will definitely be effected by their unwillingness to accept criticism regardless of how logical it may be. The bigger problem is, it's only going to get worse because of exactly the way you responded here. The pCARS community will simply shut out anyone who doesn't agree with them.

To label anyone who criticizes the game as someone who simply wants to bring the game down is the exact problem with that community.

 

[Richard Eriksson]

@Micas_WMD, so you are saying that by forcing you to pay to comment you will get the "right" criticism? And IF you dont like it anyway you ban them?

To me it sounds like you want people to invest to be personally biased and keep the hype going... And then use the banhammer to weed out those pesky guys not delivering criticism in the way YOU want...

And then in your post you follow this up by using bragging about your sales as a point to say we have no right to call out SMS or Bell on stuff we dislike. You make cash so we get to shut up?

I know you need to defend your ground, and yes i still love some of the tech invented by SMS like the new tire models. But this is a VERY slippery slope of elitism you balamce on now...

 

[jimortality]

Ehh, I did buy into the whole crowd funding thing way back when SMS started it because of the way they marketed it... I paid the junior tier amount for monthly builds. Only did that back then because I saw them harping on and on about their pedigree with GTR2 in every single sodding interview and how they wanted to make a pure sim. And that is what I expected from them, maybe I expected too much... and no, this is not even nostalgia speaking right here, I fire up GTR2 more than PCars to this day simply because it is better. Right now the game on the surface has a few features present in GTR2 but could not hold a candle to that title. Better yet, a bunch of people who rightfully pointed of the flaws, even minor things like texture bugs during the "Guys, it's pre-alpha, don't judge the game too hard" phase got swept under the rug and even banned for pointing out issues.

Just the fact that it contains the same menu music as GTR2 annoys me for some reason, it's like going around to my house and punching my old cuddly dog in the face. Feels like a bunch of idiots patting themselves on the backs and pointing and laughing at everyone else who is perplexed by their way of doing things.

Maybe others enjoy that game, more power to them, but for me personally it's goodbye PCars. Got no time for a title whose main goal is to milk consumers rather than provide quality. What a load of steamy .

Working windscreen wipers? On the cars I've driven they don't work in GTR2 and that is a deal breaker for me

 

[Ho3n3r]

Some little voice in the back of my head kept telling me not to buy v1. Now I'm pretty glad I listened.

I have more than enough sims to satisfy my needs anyway. My condolences to the folks who subsidised FlopCars 1 though.

 

[alexam31]

This thread is terrific. Of the last couple of pages I read, this ^ comment was the best.
...
And finally.. you'll make millions. I have zero doubts about that. So, who's going to head the studio and get it started?

Well said and I'm glad I joined WMD for pCARS2 despite all the rambling going on on every major simracing news site.

 

[Rob Miliczky]

Well, SMS/Ian Bell stated that about 40 people (developers etc.) from the core unit will keep pCARS1 supported over the time (2 years after release are still commited) ... that's a lot more only for product support than KUNOS seems to have for the whole development process including the shift over to produce a console version, too (with which we will see AC 2.x for PC as well more sooner than later, I assume)

He also stated last autumn, when they announced the last delay, that the game was 99.9% done and they're delaying it because they want to nail that last 0.1%. We all know how that turned out. Believing Ian Bell... bit naive.

 

[Torcano]

Working windscreen wipers? On the cars I've driven they don't work in GTR2 and that is a deal breaker for me

Damn it Jim, now you have convinced me that PCars is indeed superior and I was blind all along.

 

[Micas_WMD]

@Micas_WMD, so you are saying that by forcing you to pay to comment you will get the "right" criticism? And IF you dont like it anyway you ban them?

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I'll try and clarify;

The right criticism is "the snap oversteer on the Forumla A in X conditions seems to be excessive in Y conditions". Not - "SIMCADE!!!" Not "You should fix Z first". Not "fix the physics and stop working on the graphics".

Surely you can see the difference in content and tone? Also, nobody is being forced to do anything. There's a bunch of people who know the right way to offer feedback and enjoy doing it. They like the perks they get. Heck, some people got hired by SMS because they were doing really awesome things on WMD for pCARS 1. Some people got tool pack upgrades (money thrown at them). It wasn't because they were "yes men". It was because they had a passion to make the game better and knew how to go about doing it.

We had an argument for a few years on WMD about whether or not you could teach someone how to frame their criticism in a way that is not offensive and is actionable by the dev team to be productive. I argued that it was not possible. Others disagreed. This time around, the rules have changed. I understand that some people think that any input, regardless of how it's stated, is useful, but that's not actually true. The devs are human beings and they won't allow themselves to be abused that way, so the way something is said is as important as what is said. WMD is not a standard forum discussion site.

 

[Dinca Andrei]

I think from a business perspective the dinner should be with Bell. I´m sure there are plenty of people that would pay to be able to punch him in the face, the pack would be a sales success, no doubt.

If i had the money i would of donate just to do this...

 

[Rob Every]

Micas my dear friend, are you sure you are not really called Ian?

Because in nearly every post you place you are tellng us how many tens of millions of Euros this "project" (read patch) has made?

And the amount seems to go up by tens of millions daily!

Have you ANY idea how patronising that is to a group of people who might have just paid a reasonable amount for a game, and are then asked if they would like to contribute 50 quid or so to the next one mainly for the privilege of making only good omments on a website forum and to bankroll their devs still further? Especially when the current game is far from finished.

 

[Bookoi]

Apparently this will come as a shock to many, many people, but development on sequels very often begins before the previous iteration is completed. A studio needs to keep everyone productive, and so they move to the next project. Those that bug-fix, bug fix. SMS simply showed the world what nearly every other AAA dev studio does, which is be productive. Now everyone wants to be an arm-chair studio head and explain to Ian how he should run a company that grossed more than 60 million euros in one month of release. One month. On a new IP.

I think you guys should band together, pool your resources, and start your own studio. That's essentially how Ian and many of the guys at SMS got started. No doubt you'll do it so much better than Ian has because of all the great and fantastic ideas you have.. such as having render coders fix AI bugs, or vehicle artists work on physics. You'll know how to communicate to the army of anonymous web critics that want nothing more than your failure. Then you'll certainly be able to raise millions in budget money simply by asking for it. Making the game will only take 6 months, and you'll never face any unexpected events that push that schedule out. Your first game will, naturally, score so much better than the "mid 80s" (which is a really good score these days).

And finally.. you'll make millions. I have zero doubts about that. So, who's going to head the studio and get it started?

I'm really not sure if this is genuine or trolling, but if this is a typical example of the responses over at WMD, no wonder people are upset.

If you have genuine gripe with a product or service you've paid for, you don't speak to the complaints department expecting a sarcastic 'stop whinging'/'you do better' attitude. Of course we're aware that development of sequels starts immediately - the sim racing community is not the bunch of idiots you seem to think we are - but even somebody with the most basic grasp of marketing can see how such an early announcement and new set of promises (along with another crowdfund request), whilst the current game needs fixes, is going to go down badly.

The sad thing is that there's no acknowledgement that people are understandably upset. No reassurance that they're still committed to the first title. Just pithy responses and a ban hammer. A little bit of candor goes a long way, but from the sound of it that's not going to happen.

On the bright side, this thread has made a quiet day at work fly by.

 

[beezley]

I have him on my ignore list why doesn't everyone else? lol