Misc PopsRacer FFB - w full SOP Chassis, full tire patch, and full carcass PopsRacer v2021.10.31 - Full SOP w two versions

[Kuku Maddog]

Yes. It's like you hit the end of the steering wheel range on a real car except if you really force it through (depends on how strong your wheel base is), you can still turn more since that "stop" feeling is provided by the FFB not a physical stop.

I dont think that’s an issue at all, I haven’t noticed any lack of feeling that you are at the end of steering lock.
What you describe is very artificial and not like a real car at all , and doesn’t sound very useful.

 

[goonchy]

goonchy updated PopsRacer FFB with a new update entry:

PopsRacer FFB v11.13.2020.C - full SETA tire model

This update fixes the steering lock. Thanks to Mach999 for pointing this out!

I'd also like to point out that if you are experiencing "too much" detail in the FFB through the FX or normal FFB you may want to change the frequency at which PC2 outputs to your wheelbase. Some of the lower end wheels with gears, etc may get rattly or noisy. You can do this by adding the LAUNCH OPTIONS in the PC2's Steam Property. The maximum is 600Hz. I've set mine to:

-ffb 600

Which seems to give even more...

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[goonchy]

I'm on a TS-PC wheel base and regarding the soft lock issue, it has been working in PCARS2 with the default SMS FFBs and Christian's pure FFB. For the soft lock to work, you just have to calibrate the wheel in the controller settings. So it's not a TM control panel thing. I just set it to 1080 DOR in the device driver control panel and let the game decide how much rotation each car should have.

The update has been posted to fix the steering lock.... Thanks for pointing this out!
Pops

 

[mach999]

Can confirm, the soft lock is fixed! and I'm successfully converted from Christian's pure FFB to Pops! Can't be happier. Always felt Christian's while very smooth and natural, a bit "flat" to my taste. Yours just hit the spot! I tried both the Mid to DD and T300 versions and did not notice much difference,. So I just stick with the Mid to DD one. I compared the feel to R3E's FFB and found them very close now, which is a good thing. My go to test car and track is the BMW 320 TC and Knockhill, a good combo to test various parts of FFB as the 320 TC is a quite playful car, just the right amount of power, dynamic chassis, no electronic nanny BS; and Knockhill has slow corners, fast transition sweeps, uphill and downhill, and a somewhat bumpy surface. I also tested Cayman GT4 on Catalunya. I love how the curbs feel now. Great job Pops! Thanks!
Forgot to mention the settings for my TS-PC are all default in the control panel, in the game it's gain 100, volume 54 to begin with (I adjust it accordingly to different cars, usually within 40 to 60), tone 14 and fx 54.
A small request to Pops, is it possible to add a bit of understeer effect when the front tires are loosing grip? Like in R3E you feel the wheel gets lighter when that happens.

 

[goonchy]

Can confirm, the soft lock is fixed! and I'm successfully converted from Christian's pure FFB to Pops! Can't be happier. Always felt Christian's while very smooth and natural, a bit "flat" to my taste. Yours just hit the spot! I tried both the Mid to DD and T300 versions and did not notice much difference,. So I just stick with the Mid to DD one. I compared the feel to R3E's FFB and found them very close now, which is a good thing. My go to test car and track is the BMW 320 TC and Knockhill, a good combo to test various parts of FFB as the 320 TC is a quite playful car, just the right amount of power, dynamic chassis, no electronic nanny BS; and Knockhill has slow corners, fast transition sweeps, uphill and downhill, and a somewhat bumpy surface. I also tested Cayman GT4 on Catalunya. I love how the curbs feel now. Great job Pops! Thanks!
Forgot to mention the settings for my TS-PC are all default in the control panel, in the game it's gain 100, volume 54 to begin with (I adjust it accordingly to different cars, usually within 40 to 60), tone 14 and fx 54.
A small request to Pops, is it possible to add a bit of understeer effect when the front tires are loosing grip? Like in R3E you feel the wheel gets lighter when that happens.

Mach999,
I'm really glad it's working on your wheelbase. Thank you for posting your settings as well. That helps others with a great starting point.

As far as your request to increase the feel of the tires losing grip in understeer, the current file does have that as a scrubbing FX. The stronger you set the FX slider the stronger the scrubbing will increase, but that also increases the other FX (kerbs and road details). In order to increase the scrubbing separately you need to change the ZEN variables in the PopsRacer text file (shown in bold below):

################### ROAD/SCRUBBING #######################
# [8] ####################################################
(Scrub_Frequency_Zen 2) ### <---CHANGE THIS HERE
### 1= Strong, 2= Medium [Pops DEFAULT], 3= Light
### Description: Frequency you are feeling the tires scrub.
# [9] ####################################################
(Scrub_Scale_Zen 3) ### <---CHANGE THIS HERE
### 1= Strong, 2= Medium, 3= Light [Pops Default]
### Description: Strength you are feeling the tires scrub.

Save the file and restart the game...

As far as future FFB. The scrubbing and road details from these variables will go away as I am adding more SETA physics directly from the game into the FFB. My goal is to bring whatever has been hiding underneath the hood of PC2 all these years out for everyone to enjoy. The FX I have been using and tweaking does feel good and are believable, but the natural physics feel even better IMHO..... The trick is to balance the physics on all the tracks (laser scanned and standard). If they were all laser scanned we'd be in sim racing heaven (RF2 and R3E... should take notice!), especially on the mid to DD wheels... I have been more and more impressed with the SETA tire model and have been stumped as to why this was never developed from SMS.... Anyway, stay tuned, I think you will be even more impressed with my future FFB for the loss of grip and road details -- and thanks for the help!

BTW - great car and track choices! <thumbs up>

PopsRacer

 

[nolive721]

I'm on a TS-PC wheel base and regarding the soft lock issue, it has been working in PCARS2 with the default SMS FFBs and Christian's pure FFB. For the soft lock to work, you just have to calibrate the wheel in the controller settings. So it's not a TM control panel thing. I just set it to 1080 DOR in the device driver control panel and let the game decide how much rotation each car should have.

thanks for this

I posted on Project car forum Popsracer thread that it has helped me on my TS PC wheel reaching the Jack Spade Custom level that I had for a couple of years on my mainly daily driver cars, with the addition of more universality across the board of other cars in the Game that I was not touching much

thanks again

 

[mach999]

Mach999,
I'm really glad it's working on your wheelbase. Thank you for posting your settings as well. That helps others with a great starting point.

As far as your request to increase the feel of the tires losing grip in understeer, the current file does have that as a scrubbing FX. The stronger you set the FX slider the stronger the scrubbing will increase, but that also increases the other FX (kerbs and road details). In order to increase the scrubbing separately you need to change the ZEN variables in the PopsRacer text file (shown in bold below):

################### ROAD/SCRUBBING #######################
# [8] ####################################################
(Scrub_Frequency_Zen 2) ### <---CHANGE THIS HERE
### 1= Strong, 2= Medium [Pops DEFAULT], 3= Light
### Description: Frequency you are feeling the tires scrub.
# [9] ####################################################
(Scrub_Scale_Zen 3) ### <---CHANGE THIS HERE
### 1= Strong, 2= Medium, 3= Light [Pops Default]
### Description: Strength you are feeling the tires scrub.

Save the file and restart the game...

As far as future FFB. The scrubbing and road details from these variables will go away as I am adding more SETA physics directly from the game into the FFB. My goal is to bring whatever has been hiding underneath the hood of PC2 all these years out for everyone to enjoy. The FX I have been using and tweaking does feel good and are believable, but the natural physics feel even better IMHO..... The trick is to balance the physics on all the tracks (laser scanned and standard). If they were all laser scanned we'd be in sim racing heaven (RF2 and R3E... should take notice!), especially on the mid to DD wheels... I have been more and more impressed with the SETA tire model and have been stumped as to why this was never developed from SMS.... Anyway, stay tuned, I think you will be even more impressed with my future FFB for the loss of grip and road details -- and thanks for the help!

BTW - great car and track choices! <thumbs up>

PopsRacer

Thx Pops! The pure physics driven effect sounds very promising. Looking forward to trying that.

 

[goonchy]

goonchy updated PopsRacer FFB - now with SETA real tire physics with a new update entry:

PopsRacer FFB v12.21.2020 - SETA real tire physics

PopsRacer FFB v12.21.2020 - SETA real tire physics (all wheelbase) - Logitech G, Thrustmaster T300RS, Midrange to DD wheelbases

***Read the instruction below on the new in-game slider
Gain now sets the amount of road detail coming through your wheel.

https://dl.orangedox.com/1Gl9MB3W7RMC4PMVeg

Version v12.21.2020 please read the instruction for the NEW usage of the in-game FFB slider settings!

This custom FFB is my love letter to Project Cars 2...

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[Arrowheadrock]

Thanks Goonchy, i like the V12 version! First impression but have to drive a bit more to adjust it to my liking.

 

[mach999]

Tried the new version briefly and it's amazing to feel the pure physics driven road details with the FX turned all the way to 0. I tried both mid to dd and T300 versions and I like the mid to dd better on my TS-PC. However I do feel some weird rumble/vibration going on when turning the wheel even when the car is stationary with the mid to dd file. I assume it's to simulate the contact patch scrubbing the road surface but the frequency of the vibration sensation may be a bit off (too high or not high enough)? I have my gain at 40, vol 50, tone 14 and fx 0. I only tried the 320 TC at Knockhill so far. I'll test it more with other cars and tracks and see, maybe lower the gain and add some fx. Great job Pops!

 

[JZStudios]

What actually is the difference between gain and volume? They seem like they do kind of the same thing. The file says gain is road detail and volume is strength, but why wouldn't you have gain at 100 and change volume per car?

Also, what exactly is "engine FX" in tone supposed to be? Just a straight rumble from engine rpm?

 

[goonchy]

What actually is the difference between gain and volume? They seem like they do kind of the same thing. The file says gain is road detail and volume is strength, but why wouldn't you have gain at 100 and change volume per car?

Also, what exactly is "engine FX" in tone supposed to be? Just a straight rumble from engine rpm?

All the default gain did was scaled everything down together. It was kind of a useless feature. I’d much rather re-appropriate the gain slider to give everyone fine adjustment to something important like road detail.

The best way to understand road detail is to try it. Turn all other sliders, besides gain, to zero and drive. Do the same and turn all other slider except volume to zero and drive.

Correct, the engine FX “rumble” takes the engine’s crankshaft speed and turns it into a rumble or oscillation to the wheel for added immersion. It also fades per a variable settings in relation to the cars speed. Some wheel bases can’t handle much more FFB so turn this low or zero if that is the case. Of course some people don’t like added detail like that so turn it to zero. I’d think most people do like added immersion and flexibility to set it to a level they are happy with.

Thanks for asking. It might help someone else with the same questions.
Pops

 

[mach999]

Hey Pops, after some test driving with various cars, from formula roockie to LMP1 and a bit of everything in between, I'd like to know if it's possible to differentiate the sensation/oscillation of the tires' contact patch from other effects (e.g. curbs) a bit more? Right now I feel it's hard to tell if my front tires are losing grip/scrubbing or I'm running over a curb. I don't know if it's doable but I'd like to have the tire scrubbing/contact patch effect be at a lower frequency, more like in R3E when the tires are scrubbing, you feel a sort of slower "wavy" gentle back n forth force on the wheel if you know what I'm talking about. lol. I said that because I really like R3E's FFB and I tried your new FFB back to back with R3E yesterday. Sorry if it's too much to ask... I'm thinking of moving to R3E as my go to but I just don't wanna give up on PCARS2 as the potential of the latter is just there, not to mention the sheer content and eye candy graphics.
End of babbling, too much wine...lol

 

[goonchy]

Hey Pops, after some test driving with various cars, from formula roockie to LMP1 and a bit of everything in between, I'd like to know if it's possible to differentiate the sensation/oscillation of the tires' contact patch from other effects (e.g. curbs) a bit more? Right now I feel it's hard to tell if my front tires are losing grip/scrubbing or I'm running over a curb. I don't know if it's doable but I'd like to have the tire scrubbing/contact patch effect be at a lower frequency, more like in R3E when the tires are scrubbing, you feel a sort of slower "wavy" gentle back n forth force on the wheel if you know what I'm talking about. lol. I said that because I really like R3E's FFB and I tried your new FFB back to back with R3E yesterday. Sorry if it's too much to ask... I'm thinking of moving to R3E as my go to but I just don't wanna give up on PCARS2 as the potential of the latter is just there, not to mention the sheer content and eye candy graphics.
End of babbling, too much wine...lol

I've just recently purchased into R3E's tracks and cars through it's confusing virtual moneys. I haven’t spent a ton of time on it, but think the FFB is really good, but the physics seems a little off to me. Similar to what Gamer Muscle had mentioned. Nothing is perfect for everyone. Even if there was a perfect sim w/ perfect physics and FFB someone wouldn’t agree. LOL, I haven’t had my supply of wine today, but I’ll have a virtual drink w you. Cheers ...I still think R3E is an awesome simulator.

I hesitate to deviate from the current “road feel”, but will put some more thought into it. Currently, the road feel is directly driven from physics peek forces w some mild tuning to make it less harsh. I’d say try to tune your wheel a bit more as I am able to distinctly feel exactly what the car is doing and driving over. Every wheel has different performance characteristics, but I know I’ve dialed down my wheel settings sharpness from previous versions of my FFB and have added dampening when I previously had none. It may never feel like R3E, but if it did then it would NOT have been driven from actual real-time FE tire data...

I really do appreciate your feedback!

Cheers!
Pops

 

[goonchy]

Tried the new version briefly and it's amazing to feel the pure physics driven road details with the FX turned all the way to 0. I tried both mid to dd and T300 versions and I like the mid to dd better on my TS-PC. However I do feel some weird rumble/vibration going on when turning the wheel even when the car is stationary with the mid to dd file. I assume it's to simulate the contact patch scrubbing the road surface but the frequency of the vibration sensation may be a bit off (too high or not high enough)? I have my gain at 40, vol 50, tone 14 and fx 0. I only tried the 320 TC at Knockhill so far. I'll test it more with other cars and tracks and see, maybe lower the gain and add some fx. Great job Pops!

mach999,
Tire scrubbing when turning your wheel at a stand-still -- I had a few ideas's on how to solve this but did some testing first to confirm. I think I have narrowed it down to the cause. Please confirm my results below:

I tried this with the same BMW TC and the Chevy Corvette C7R GTE. I tested with Gain at full and all else to zero. I had no "gripping" or "scrubbing" sensation. I did the same with only the Volume and had no weird sensation. Then I turned up fx and still no sensation. Finally, I turned the engine FX up to my normal level, and what you perceive as tire scrubbing seems to be the engine oscillation mixed with the standstill forces of the tires. I do know how to turn ON the standstill tire scrubbing sensation, but it was more information than anyone would like to feel. That is why I was puzzled by your comment.

Please confirm my root cause analysis. Engine oscillation vs actual tire scrubbing at standstill.

Pops

 

[mach999]

mach999,
Tire scrubbing when turning your wheel at a stand-still -- I had a few ideas's on how to solve this but did some testing first to confirm. I think I have narrowed it down to the cause. Please confirm my results below:

I tried this with the same BMW TC and the Chevy Corvette C7R GTE. I tested with Gain at full and all else to zero. I had no "gripping" or "scrubbing" sensation. I did the same with only the Volume and had no weird sensation. Then I turned up fx and still no sensation. Finally, I turned the engine FX up to my normal level, and what you perceive as tire scrubbing seems to be the engine oscillation mixed with the standstill forces of the tires. I do know how to turn ON the standstill tire scrubbing sensation, but it was more information than anyone would like to feel. That is why I was puzzled by your comment.

Please confirm my root cause analysis. Engine oscillation vs actual tire scrubbing at standstill.

Pops

Pops,
I re-tested the 320 TC and this time I tested with tone 0 fx 0, vol 0, and with engine off. car stationary, it still has that oscillation effect. So I guess it has something to do with how the Thrustmaster driver is interpreting the data fed by the game. I hope other TS-PC user or Thrustmaster user in general could chime in.

 

[Kuku Maddog]

Pops,
I re-tested the 320 TC and this time I tested with tone 0 fx 0, vol 0, and with engine off. car stationary, it still has that oscillation effect. So I guess it has something to do with how the Thrustmaster driver is interpreting the data fed by the game. I hope other TS-PC user or Thrustmaster user in general could chime in.

These thustmasters are very sensitive eh. I probably feel what you are, but probably just used to it.
it could potentially also be some gearbox vibe ?
perhaps see if it lessens with clutch in.

 

[nolive721]

Pops,
I re-tested the 320 TC and this time I tested with tone 0 fx 0, vol 0, and with engine off. car stationary, it still has that oscillation effect. So I guess it has something to do with how the Thrustmaster driver is interpreting the data fed by the game. I hope other TS-PC user or Thrustmaster user in general could chime in.

hello

I also have the TS PC racer wheel. I have this oscillation or call it vibration if Spring/Damper is set at Zero in the TM panel.
I followed this advice to test popsracer custom FFB with such setting whereas I always use 100%/100% historically with any Sims.

so if I go back to this 100%/100% the stationery wheel vibration is gone so maybe thats your issue?

Regarding in Game settings, FFB is definitively a subjective thing because testing GT3 cars with Gain&Volume below 50 like you did gives me too little sensation of wheel weight and car dynamics so its minimum 60 for me and Tone/Fx at 30/20 as well

 

[goonchy]

....Regarding in Game settings, FFB is definitively a subjective thing because testing GT3 cars with Gain&Volume below 50 like you did gives me too little sensation of wheel weight and car dynamics so its minimum 60 for me and Tone/Fx at 30/20 as well

Nolive721,
Are you using the (Mid to DD) FFB file?

 

[nolive721]

Oh yes sorry i forgot to mention that, i am using that one indeed