Misc PopsRacer FFB - w full SOP Chassis, full tire patch, and full carcass PopsRacer v2021.10.31 - Full SOP w two versions

[mach999]

hello

I also have the TS PC racer wheel. I have this oscillation or call it vibration if Spring/Damper is set at Zero in the TM panel.
I followed this advice to test popsracer custom FFB with such setting whereas I always use 100%/100% historically with any Sims.

so if I go back to this 100%/100% the stationery wheel vibration is gone so maybe thats your issue?

Regarding in Game settings, FFB is definitively a subjective thing because testing GT3 cars with Gain&Volume below 50 like you did gives me too little sensation of wheel weight and car dynamics so its minimum 60 for me and Tone/Fx at 30/20 as well

I always leave everything at 100% in the TM control panel (except overall FFB at default 75%) and tune it in individual games instead. So yeah my spring and dampening are all 100%. My volume is always around 50 depends on the cars and before this version my gains was always at 100%. At this point I just went back to the last version of PopsRacer's FFB and I'm sorry to say I prefer that one a lot more. lol. I'm actually quite happy with the last one now with the settings at gain 100, vol 50ish, tone 24 and fx 44.

 

[goonchy]

I always leave everything at 100% in the TM control panel (except overall FFB at default 75%) and tune it in individual games instead. So yeah my spring and dampening are all 100%. My volume is always around 50 depends on the cars and before this version my gains was always at 100%. At this point I just went back to the last version of PopsRacer's FFB and I'm sorry to say I prefer that one a lot more. lol. I'm actually quite happy with the last one now with the settings at gain 100, vol 50ish, tone 24 and fx 44.

I’m really glad one of my FFBs has kept you interested in PC2!

Pops

 

[r34gtr]

I never used a custom FFB before in PC2 and decided to download a few ones and use them for a few laps...

Maybe I did not take enough time to perfectly set all of them but even if they each had something good I was not convinced
( especially too much vibration and oscillation in flat straight line )

Then as last I installed your version and used it at first with the civic type r

At standard gain setting (50) I felt way too much unwanted vibration and effects when in a straight line and not much torque steer feel on the fwd civic

I read that you were using the gain adjustment for road effect so I turned it down to 10 ( vol 90 tone 10 fx 60 ) and then went for a few laps with the mclaren 650 gt3

WOWWWW

the unwanted road effect was not there in an annoying way anymore and the steering was just really good and the best of all the others used

Same on the F355 challenge

So thanks for your FFB file and work and I can say it makes PC2 a lot better

I did not drive the civic again but maybe the only thing your file didn t improve much is the feeling of the fwd tyres loosing grip in a curve

as I was not feeling any torque steer etc...

Wheel used Fanatec CSW v2

 

[goonchy]

I never used a custom FFB before in PC2 and decided to download a few ones and use them for a few laps...

Maybe I did not take enough time to perfectly set all of them but even if they each had something good I was not convinced
( especially too much vibration and oscillation in flat straight line )

Then as last I installed your version and used it at first with the civic type r

At standard gain setting (50) I felt way too much unwanted vibration and effects when in a straight line and not much torque steer feel on the fwd civic

I read that you were using the gain adjustment for road effect so I turned it down to 10 ( vol 90 tone 10 fx 60 ) and then went for a few laps with the mclaren 650 gt3

WOWWWW

the unwanted road effect was not there in an annoying way anymore and the steering was just really good and the best of all the others used

Same on the F355 challenge

So thanks for your FFB file and work and I can say it makes PC2 a lot better

I did not drive the civic again but maybe the only thing your file didn t improve much is the feeling of the fwd tyres loosing grip in a curve

as I was not feeling any torque steer etc...

Wheel used Fanatec CSW v2

Thanks for testing and comparing other FFB's and the compliment! The Civic R doesn't have much torque steer because of the way the LSD is set up in that car. If I remember correctly reading reviews of the Civic R, that is the way it is in real life. Honda minimizes the torque steer by having the Geared LSD setup. Try driving and comparing the Renault Megan RS 275 Trophy R and you'll definitely feel the difference in its torque steer. PC2 does a fantastic job replicating the feel of FWD cars as well as RWD and AWD. Renault Clio Cup totally feels different again, but from my research of real-life racers of the Clio Cup, it is the way it really does feel. The differential settings seem to be one of the greatest neglected features that PC2 does better than any other sim I've come across. It is advanced, but worth diving into for a complete simulation.

My Fanatec CSW v2.5 settings:
Sen Auto
FF 100
Sho Off
Abs 000
DRI OFF
For 120
Spr OFF
DPR 70
FEI 020

In Game:
Gain 35
Volume - Civic R (60), Megan RS (45), McLaren GT3 (47), 355 Challenge (37)
Tone 40
FX 40

Hopefully, my reference settings help your setup and feel even more on your similar wheelbase.

PopsRacer

 

[r34gtr]

I had another look at the settings ( on the CSW v2 there is no FEI adjustment and there might be a different rendering compared to the csw v2.5 )

The too pronounced wheel vibration and oscillation is mostly because of the tone setting ( idle engine vibration too pronounced ) but also I feel that the

Gain effect that makes some wheel opposing left to right force repeated movement for example during a long curve is too prounounced and not too realistic as in a real car on track you could have some similar effect if the tyre is gaining and loosing grip or if there are some specific tarmac irregularities but not just repeated all the time during all the curve at the same rate ( but of course it s a personal preference and might weel be something specific to my wheel for example if after some use there would be some additional "play" or other ).

On my setup it s really much better if I keep gain value off or as low as 2 or 5

Same for the engine vibrations etc related to the tone setting I feel it s much better at low value around 10
I would like ( if possible ) more eventual steering effect created for example by the gear change or clutch engagement and less fake engine vibration

On other hand I prefer slightly higher than suggested values but depending on cars... around 70 is good for the f355 but that felt too much in other cars

FX for kurbs around 60 or 70 as I think the effect is not saturated and well done...

Back to the FWD cars...

Even with the suggested renault rs 275 or clio cup I basically do not feel any difference at all if during a turn I release or apply throttle...

In a FWD car you should feel at least some more self centering force when on throttle and less self centering throttle if you completely release throttle...

That effect is just not there or so low that you can t really feel it and it doesn t change even with different settings of the FFB or traction control off

But in any case is not because of your file as even if I go back to the standard game FFB it s still the same.

I just wanted to let you know in case you have some suggestion as I noticed that

Thanks

 

[goonchy]

...That effect is just not there or so low that you can t really feel it and it doesn t change even with different settings of the FFB or traction control off

But in any case is not because of your file as even if I go back to the standard game FFB it s still the same.

I just wanted to let you know in case you have some suggestion as I noticed that

Thanks

Thanks for the feedback. I hadn’t realized v2.0 vs v2.5 is that different in rendering FFB. I’ll do some more FWD testing, which I normally don’t drive. I could swear I feel the self centering torque etc. on my wheel. Can anyone else confirm this on any v2.5 or DD wheelbases?

Per your mentioned car test drive I’ve been racing the F355 Challenge for at least one or two hours. What a lovely balanced car! And since I was lucky enough to get a Fanatec shifter from Mrs. Racer this Christmas it was a perfect match for racing AI with me. The car is perfectly balanced and a joy to manually shift around Imola or Donington Park.

PopsRacer

 

[r34gtr]

I used the CSW v1 and the v2 but I did not use the v2.5 so I can t comment on the real actual differences but I know that some of the driver settings are
different as the FEI etc...

About the Gain effect I can feel a very slight " play " in the wheel balance when going left to right but my CSW v2 do not have much use at all and I could feel the
same thing in the v1 with some slightly saturated effects so I don t think it s an hardware thing and also when those kind of overdone effects are not there it feels perfect without any kind of strange play...

I am more used to play AC than PC2 and I feel the standard FFB is more balanced and refined in AC than PC2 and also in PC2 it s more good or not so good depending on the car... It s not easy to describe but in AC the average ffb feels more resistant but damped around the center of the wheel but goes progressively more light ( at least compared to PC2 ) when you add turning angle... and I feel it a bit more realistic...

PC2 seem to miss some refinement and to just be too loose and less connected or too strong in a constant curve...

But I have to say that with your mod and the right cars ( example the 650 gt3 or f355 challenge that I used ) It was really surprisingly good and close to be one of the best steering feel in any sim... but again it always depend on the wheel the setting the car the preference etc..

The F355 is really nicely done in PC2 the balance the handling the noise etc... a pleasure to drive with the clubsport shifter so enjoy it

 

[goonchy]

...Back to the FWD cars...

Even with the suggested renault rs 275 or clio cup I basically do not feel any difference at all if during a turn I release or apply throttle...

In a FWD car you should feel at least some more self centering force when on throttle and less self centering throttle if you completely release throttle...

That effect is just not there or so low that you can t really feel it and it doesn t change even with different settings of the FFB or traction control off

But in any case is not because of your file as even if I go back to the standard game FFB it s still the same.....

FYI- I have been working on the mostly missing torque steer in FWD cars. It is in the physics engine and it does help the on center feel of every car.... too long of a programming/coding story of why it was off... there are some things I need to get the kinks worked out, but hopefully it will be out early this next year ;-)

Wishing everyone a happy safe sim New Year!

 

[r34gtr]

On some FWD cars maybe with different adjustments I can feel a very very slight FFB reaction...
The strange thing is that it seems to be somehow inverted...

I would say that on a FWD car there should be something as a force that want to bring the wheel back to center if you accelerate and that force should be lower when releasing the throttle ( except if the wheels are spinning where it would be normal to have less centering force during the wheelspin and more force when they get grip back )

On PC2 ( even with standard FFB ) the slight force that center the wheel is increasing when releasing the throttle even if there is not at all wheelspin and you
are in a curve under torque in a taller gear...

Another difference I noted by comparing your FFB file with other modded FFB files on mugello track with the 650 gt3 and f355 is that all the others when going over kurbs are making a too high frequency vibration and rattling while yours give a more good damped and pronounced feel.

If I really want to make some constructive critic I would say that the feeling of your FFB on kurbs is the perfect feel for when you take the inner curve kurb
but when going wide on some outer kurbs ( and of course I speak for the mugello track where the outer kurbs are somewhere made of a lot of small vibrating angles next to each other at least visually ) maybe the best effect would be in between your actual effect and the more standard one used in other files but that s just a fine tune suggestion and I don t even know if it s possible to change the kurb effect from inner to outer or if it can be dependent on the visuals and mapping of the track surface etc...

 

[goonchy]

On some FWD cars maybe with different adjustments I can feel a very very slight FFB reaction...
The strange thing is that it seems to be somehow inverted...

I would say that on a FWD car there should be something as a force that want to bring the wheel back to center if you accelerate and that force should be lower when releasing the throttle ( except if the wheels are spinning where it would be normal to have less centering force during the wheelspin and more force when they get grip back )

On PC2 ( even with standard FFB ) the slight force that center the wheel is increasing when releasing the throttle even if there is not at all wheelspin and you
are in a curve under torque in a taller gear...

Another difference I noted by comparing your FFB file with other modded FFB files on mugello track with the 650 gt3 and f355 is that all the others when going over kurbs are making a too high frequency vibration and rattling while yours give a more good damped and pronounced feel.

If I really want to make some constructive critic I would say that the feeling of your FFB on kurbs is the perfect feel for when you take the inner curve kurb
but when going wide on some outer kurbs ( and of course I speak for the mugello track where the outer kurbs are somewhere made of a lot of small vibrating angles next to each other at least visually ) maybe the best effect would be in between your actual effect and the more standard one used in other files but that s just a fine tune suggestion and I don t even know if it s possible to change the kurb effect from inner to outer or if it can be dependent on the visuals and mapping of the track surface etc...

Constructive criticism is what has gotten this file to the point it is at. The community has brought up so many things that I didn’t even notice. Sometimes I am just focused on fixing one problem when another problem is noticed by the community. As far as kurbing goes, I cannot change inner vs outer. A specific file example of “other files” for me to consider would helpful. My file does have some changeable variables within the file. In the meantime, you may want to tweak those in the kurbing area of the FX section of my file. Each time you change a variable you’ll need to reboot the game...forgive me that I cannot give you more specifics for what to search in my file as I am typing this on my table.

My current priority is fixing the torque feedback in my file. The problem with leaving full torque was that it gave some strange tugging feedback at given times on certain cars and certain tracks. In the last file I limited or crippled the torque forces to avoid that defect in the game engine. Since I don’t drive Fwd cars it was a decent compromise. By doing that I did limit even more feel on all cars. , but you pointing this out is worth the added work (if I can solve this). Btw- no other FFB is using any of this physics-driven feedback so this is new territory and is showing very well so far. It would have been a different game if SMS would have come out with this #%@! a few years ago.

Cheers!

 

[r34gtr]

Completely understand what you say and of course you can not work and notice everything at once...
I could imagine that it would not be possible to change the outer kerb vs outer kerb reaction but I tought to explain it like that so you could
maybe better understand the ffb reaction I meant.
I guess the ffb reacts to the way the kerbs are mapped in 3d ( but I don t know ).

I just tried a few of the latest FFB files and as each one use the adjustment sliders differently I m not sure that I found the best settings for each one
But I think that the ones I experimented most with was Christiaan Pure FFB (latest version) and then yours.

I found out that good pronounced but damped kerb reaction only on your file while on standard game or Christiaan FFB it was more of a
higher frequency sharp rattling... and by using both FFB files back to back on mugello where some of those outer straight kurbs are visually representing
those very close and repeated edges I found that on those particular kerbs the higher frequency vibration was more correct ( even if still a little too much undamped and rattling with my Fanatec wheel )...
But with those files and standard files there where certain inner kerbs that were not enough pronounced ( example that big chicane towards the latest part of the mugello track where you can cut a lot with other files you dont feel much other than a sudden small and too sharp bump while with your file you feel a more pronounced but damped bump with more details )...

Of course I know that all this is related to my particular wheel setup and I have to say that Christiaan Pure FFB is also really good compared to standard.
It s just that with your file I found some little but important changes that on other files are still very close to the original game.

Keep up the excellent work thanks

 

[goonchy]

Completely understand what you say and of course you can not work and notice everything at once...
I could imagine that it would not be possible to change the outer kerb vs outer kerb reaction but I tought to explain it like that so you could
maybe better understand the ffb reaction I meant.
I guess the ffb reacts to the way the kerbs are mapped in 3d ( but I don t know ).

I just tried a few of the latest FFB files and as each one use the adjustment sliders differently I m not sure that I found the best settings for each one
But I think that the ones I experimented most with was Christiaan Pure FFB (latest version) and then yours.

I found out that good pronounced but damped kerb reaction only on your file while on standard game or Christiaan FFB it was more of a
higher frequency sharp rattling... and by using both FFB files back to back on mugello where some of those outer straight kurbs are visually representing
those very close and repeated edges I found that on those particular kerbs the higher frequency vibration was more correct ( even if still a little too much undamped and rattling with my Fanatec wheel )...
But with those files and standard files there where certain inner kerbs that were not enough pronounced ( example that big chicane towards the latest part of the mugello track where you can cut a lot with other files you dont feel much other than a sudden small and too sharp bump while with your file you feel a more pronounced but damped bump with more details )...

Of course I know that all this is related to my particular wheel setup and I have to say that Christiaan Pure FFB is also really good compared to standard.
It s just that with your file I found some little but important changes that on other files are still very close to the original game.

Keep up the excellent work thanks

I just drove a few laps around Mugello GP with the legendary F355 Challenge and 488 GT3 because I was in Italy :0, at least in VR. Anyway, I drove slowly and swiftly touching every inside and outside kerb. That includes the chicane towards the end of the track. The kerbing felt very consistent with my typical PopsRacer settings listed earlier. The rhythm or frequency seemed to match my traveling speed. Of course, I am using a newer development PopsRacer FFB which may make all of the difference. Let's hope this is the case even with your wheelbase. The V2 should still be a very good wheelbase. I know of some of the physical and electrical differences between the V2 and V2.5.... I even tried the sliders separately turning on only the Volume, then Volume and Gain, and then finally all on - Gain, Volume, and FX. It felt consistent on inside and outside kerbs, not missing a single vibration.

What are your wheelbase settings? And are you using the latest drivers and firmware? I do not use the BETA software for my PC as it doesn't factor to PC2 and it is still in BETA. Sad face for Fanatec.

btw- On my FFB file the Gain (road feel) and Volume are directly physics-driven. The FX for the kerbing is driven somewhat by the wheelbase (spring oscillation). That is why I am asking the question.

I believe Christiaan's file still multiples the load axis (Fz) to get the amount of kerb or road feel to the wheel. Not a bad system, just different.

Pops

 

[r34gtr]

The settings I used for the Fanatec CSW V2

SEN Auto ( 900 )
FF 100
DRI off
Spr off
Dpr off
Bli ( ABS ) off
Sho off ( or 100 but makes no difference )
Force 90

Latest drivers installed

in game settings

FFB Custom

Gain 2
Volume 70
Tone 5
FX 50

I set the Gain and Tone really low as on my wheel and for my taste one makes some sort of artificial road feel that is enough at really low value and the other makes engine vibration through the wheel that at higher level are too present and artificial and is not something usually felt on any real track car.
Also on my wheel above a certain level it will start to make the wheel oscillate left to right if you release it so I prefer to keep that simple and focus on the steering force and kurbs.

Yes the Kurbs feel good and consistent and better than on any other file even on your actual released file I would say...

My other comments were just about those few flatter but with closely repeaded edges that on real are made on purpous to create some sort of vibration
and just in that particular case the more usual kurb effect of standard FFB or other FFB files could be closer.

My suggestion was ( and I guess it s not as simple as one value ) to very slightly bring back your actual kerb effect reaction a really small amount towards
standard ( or maybe as you suggested is enough to change just some value on your file ? ) but don t get me wrong as it is is already the better kerb effect I tried by far

In any case I m sure that your next file will be even better if you continue working on those things you were saying

Thanks

 

[goonchy]

Just wanted to thank everyone who bought me a cup of coffee this past year. Some of you bought multiple cups and multiple times. Thank you! As promised I have donated the full amount for 2020 to Alex's Lemonade Stand to help research Childhood cancer. I wish we raised even more money, but every little bit helps. $120 has just been sent to Alex's Lemonade Stand.

Let's all keep hope for better years!

Racing for Research

Pediatric cancer is something my family has personal experience with. A little over three years ago, my son (7 at the time) started having some health issues. It's quite a long story, and I don't want to get into all of the details, but after spending months trying to diagnose the cause of his...

www.alexslemonade.org

 

[McClutch]

In game settings for Logitech G-920 that works with most cars in PC2 with v12.21.2020 so far:

Gain 50
Tone 50
Volume 30
FX 20

12.21.2020 is not really "worse" or "better" than previous versions, but it is distinctlivly different. I like it since im not a fan of strong FFB forces anyway, since you don't feel all that much through a Steering wheel RL except self centering force, a bit more with FFD cars, particularly on acceleration an high speed high torque Corners. But when you feel rumble or vibrations, something with the cars is wrong. What im missing is road wheel imbalance after impact damage or hard (emergency) braking.

 

[robnitro]

Just wanted to thank everyone who bought me a cup of coffee this past year. Some of you bought multiple cups and multiple times. Thank you! As promised I have donated the full amount for 2020 to Alex's Lemonade Stand to help research Childhood cancer. I wish we raised even more money, but every little bit helps. $120 has just been sent to Alex's Lemonade Stand.

Let's all keep hope for better years!

I'll be honest, a lot of these charities are scams. You donate 1 dollar, people see 25 cents.
Nowadays with this covid nonsense and the push for the barely tested vaccine, I pretty much gave up on modern medicine.
They haven't cured **** in decades. All they do is sell us drugs that need to be taken forever.
Also, in the USA we still don't have NATIONAL health care. Even with insurance from work I had to pay 500 dollars for a simple procedure as deductible.
FK THIS MEDICAL SYSTEM ITS FULL OF SCAMS

What Vaccine Trials?

Iain Davis COVID 19 vaccine trials appear to have caused some confusion. Hopefully, this article might help clear things up a bit. People genuinely appear to believe that the COVID 19 vaccines have…

off-guardian.org

 

[goonchy]

I'll be honest, a lot of these charities are scams. You donate 1 dollar, people see 25 cents.
Nowadays with this covid nonsense and the push for the barely tested vaccine, I pretty much gave up on modern medicine.
They haven't cured **** in decades. All they do is sell us drugs that need to be taken forever.
Also, in the USA we still don't have NATIONAL health care. Even with insurance from work I had to pay 500 dollars for a simple procedure as deductible.
FK THIS MEDICAL SYSTEM ITS FULL OF SCAMS

What Vaccine Trials?

Iain Davis COVID 19 vaccine trials appear to have caused some confusion. Hopefully, this article might help clear things up a bit. People genuinely appear to believe that the COVID 19 vaccines have…

off-guardian.org

Listen, I made a promise and kept to my promise. No money came out of your pocket. If this Lemonade thing is a scam it is on their conscience. I worked on this FFB for hundred of hours. People donated to me and I felt compelled to give and I gave additionally out of my pocket. You have taken this off topic.

Back onto your off topic. If you don’t believe in science (the vaccine) then you should not have any medical insurance and should not have had a medical procedure done and then complain about it on a video gaming forum.

Science has save me and my families lives several times. Please check your facts.

 

[robnitro]

Listen, I made a promise and kept to my promise. No money came out of your pocket. If this Lemonade thing is a scam it is on their conscience. I worked on this FFB for hundred of hours. People donated to me and I felt compelled to give and I gave additionally out of my pocket. You have taken this off topic.

Back onto your off topic. If you don’t believe in science (the vaccine) then you should not have any medical insurance and should not have had a medical procedure done and then complain about it on a video gaming forum.

Science has save me and my families lives several times. Please check your facts.

I commend your promise. I just find it upsetting that we aren't addressing the reason why people need this, because we don't have a national medical system in the USA. These charities and the gofundme events help cases, but don't fix the ISSUE.

Denying care because of a personal choice??? No, thats fascism. I have medical insurance because of cases where I break a bone. I'm AGAINST BEING FORCED TO TAKE A MEDICINE OR VACCINE that has barely been tested... You're ignorant that these vaccines are immune from lawsuits and meanwhile the pharmas haven't cured **** in the last 30 years.

Should insurance pay for the care of those people who get injured by the vaccine? If we went by your logic, NO.

I am for medicare for all, because I knew quite a few people that went broke even when they had insurance. I'm tired of people like you making the case to deny care.

 

[goonchy]

I commend your promise. I just find it upsetting that we aren't addressing the reason why people need this, because we don't have a national medical system in the USA. These charities and the gofundme events help cases, but don't fix the ISSUE.

Denying care because of a personal choice??? No, thats fascism. I have medical insurance because of cases where I break a bone. I'm AGAINST BEING FORCED TO TAKE A MEDICINE OR VACCINE that has barely been tested... You're ignorant that these vaccines are immune from lawsuits and meanwhile the pharmas haven't cured **** in the last 30 years.

Should insurance pay for the care of those people who get injured by the vaccine? If we went by your logic, NO.

I am for medicare for all, because I knew quite a few people that went broke even when they had insurance. I'm tired of people like you making the case to deny care.

I did not mention anything of national heath care or any of your new topics. Please do not put words into my mouth of what I want for you or anyone. I do not wish you any bad. I actually wish you the best. From people that know me they would actually find that to be the truth.

Bottom line, I donated money that was donated to me. I can do with it what I’d like and did fulfill my promise. You did no research of the charity I gave to and proceeded to badmouth them. Then proceeded to bring up the current pandemic vaccine. Please keep comments to the hobby.

PopsRacer

 

[robnitro]

Please keep comments to the hobby.

PopsRacer

Agreed. It's been tough for me and my family who are facing huge debts and I find a lot of this donation business a scam to make people forget how horrible the medical system is.

I feel in my heart that we got into this mess because we feel like we are doing good by smoothing over issues.
Thanks for understanding and I wish you and your family well.