OverTake <> RaceDepartment | General Discussion

[robert1985]

always happens some faceless corporate entity ALWAYS sweeps in buys out and in the process guts the life and soul out of it and slowly turns it into something that benefits "them" and the not the actual people who use it. i guess the money was more important.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Am I allowed to say...I don't care

Of course you are allowed to say that I am convinced as long as you are sim racing you will keep finding what you need here

 

[Andy_J]

I am worried what might happen but until then I will continue to support RD. To be honest RD is a shadow of what it was anyway. Lets hope things get better.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

I am worried what might happen but until then I will continue to support RD. To be honest RD is a shadow of what it was anyway. Lets hope things get better.

Is it an overall trend. Isrtv used to be big thing, now it's ghost town, nogripracing is gone. And RD is just a handful regulars posting over and over again. Where did all simracing crowd go?

 

[jgf]

Am I allowed to say...I don't care, if at some point I can't get what I need here, i'll just find somewhere else to get it, i'm to old to give a monkeys either way tbh.

Well, a difference here, much like Nog rip years ago, is RD is something of a "one stop shop", with forums and downloads for numerous sims. Most other sites cater to one, or a few, sims.

 

[jgf]

Is it an overall trend. Isrtv used to be big thing, now it's ghost town, nogripracing is gone. And RD is just a handful regulars posting over and over again. Where did all simracing crowd go?

The computer gaming community in general has shifted focus over the years. Where people once stuck with some games/sims for years, the trend now is to master a sim, or play completely through a game, as quickly as possible and move on to the next one.

This is exemplified by an appalling (to me) blog I read a few years ago. The person was speaking of Skyrim, (paraphrasing)
"I created a character and explored a cave, fought some creatures, found some loot. Went to a town, talked to some NPCs, visited another cave. Noticed I'd been playing three hours! I don't have time to talk to every NPC to get quests. I don't have time to look in every nook and cranny for loot. I like a game I can play though in 12-15 hours and move on."

An online game I played years ago basically died from this attitude. You advanced through six worlds, each more complex than the last. Most players, as they moved from the first to second world, would create a new world one character, and continue this as they advanced through the entire game. So all worlds had decent populations and there were many experienced players on each world to act as mentors. This all changed, the devs lamented that most new players merely wanted to zip through the entire game as quickly as possible and move on.

Years ago I noticed this trend with newcomers to race sims. No one wanted to learn to drive the cars, no one wanted to learn to tweak setups. They just wanted to hop into their favorite car, win every race in the game, and move on. So many posts of "do you have some setups I can download, I don't have time to make them myself". (Yes, and here's a pair of shoes from an Olympic sprinter, wear them and you'll run as fast as he does.)

 

[Terry Rock]

the simple fact still remains. its been sold out to corporatism and that never ever benefits the people using the platform. sad day for the user's of RD. the owner had a choice and he chose to kill the platform. give it time

Come on man!
Don't do that.
The assessment is not fair.
Even if it is sold, it is nothing more than anyone else would do...given the opportunity to secure their future financially.
Every single person here would do the same...unless they were 'insanely' wealthy.
Lets see what will happen before the 'doom and gloom' hatchet comes out.

 

[Andy_J]

Is it an overall trend. Isrtv used to be big thing, now it's ghost town, nogripracing is gone. And RD is just a handful regulars posting over and over again. Where did all simracing crowd go?

Yep. Blackhole motorsports too. All gone. What we need is a community like RD used to be. But if the player base isn't there and the members don't pay for Premium, well it's all our own fault.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Yep. Blackhole motorsports too. All gone. What we need is a community like RD used to be. But if the player base isn't there and the members don't pay for Premium, well it's all our own fault.

Not sure I understand, the reason we have low activity on the "discussion" forum is because most people don't want to pay for that?
Did you mean aspect of organized online leagues racing, that does not interest good portion of sim racers at all.
So what is the value of premium for those, suppressing annoying ads (easy to disable even on the phone), and posting in Classifieds section?

 

[HorneyMINI]

Forums have seen a downward trend for years, mostly due to Facebook groups and now due to Discord servers.

Facebook groups generally are rubbish substitutes for forums as the layout and search is pretty terrible. Discord is pretty good these days and that seems to be where most of the sim racing people hang out. Forums are now the preserve of the truly dedicated and generally older user (I run an mx5 forum so have relevant experience).

In regards to people buying set ups and not creating your own, that’s probably just a time thing. As an iRacer, a full time worker and a husband I find those 3 things need a fine balance of time management. I don’t have time to practice, build a set up and do a couple of races a week. Getting a decent setup from a trusted source is no different from having a trusted IRL race mechanic set your car up for you.

 

[Durge Driven]

Que sera sera

Years ago I noticed this trend with newcomers to race sims.

Because there are simply too many titles these days and all profess to do the same thing when in fact they are all different in all most all facets to drive.

How does anyone expect the average joe to adjust to this without making driving sims a major priority.

Another reason is the majority of sims were either papyrus or gmotor
so going from sim to sim was much the same.

P.S. Imagine if reality was like that, you would have people driving the same car model going to service settings and having it setup different.
In reality the same car feels almost the same to everyone gets behind the wheel .
That is how all sims should be which is furthest from the truth.

 

[jgf]

Because there are simply too many titles these days and all profess to do the same thing when in fact they are all different in all most all facets to drive.

How does anyone expect the average joe to adjust to this without making driving sims a major priority.

Another reason is the majority of sims were either papyrus or gmotor
so going from sim to sim was much the same.

But setup physics are the same across the board (unless individual physics are truly wonky). Doesn't matter if it's GPL, N2k3, GTL, GTR2, rfactor, AC, or whatever; increase the rear bar = increase oversteer, soften springs = better grip at expense of responsiveness, etc. My point being years ago we all learned this, it was part of sims, and we have used it through the years as we went to different sims; but newcomers aren't interested, they expect to download setups that will instantly have them driving like Senna at his prime. And when told this is something they need to learn, they lose interest; "that's too much trouble".

But no one wants to learn anymore. The entire world is being "dumbed down" and idiot proofed. Cyril Kornbluth was quite prescient when he wrote "The Marching Morons" nearly seventy years ago.

 

[Metla]

Forums have seen a downward trend for years, mostly due to Facebook groups and now due to Discord servers.

100 percent.

Facebook killed forums within a short period, and the next generation use discord.

I've got two teenage sons, both are gamers, doubt either of them have ever visited a forum, nor do they use facebook.

And, as much as I enjoy the forum format for discussions, This one is the only one that I know of that has any activity at all. At one point I was a member of a good dozen or so active forums.

Of course, there is the steam community.....

 

[Durge Driven]

Same old excuse do the same lap time in the same Porsche in 6 sims they must be good enough.

If you could mask the sim I was driving I could tell you in a heartbeat which is AC, AMS2 and rFactor2, that is how alike they are to me.

 

[tilbakestaend]

But setup physics are the same across the board (unless individual physics are truly wonky). Doesn't matter if it's GPL, N2k3, GTL, GTR2, rfactor, AC, or whatever; increase the rear bar = increase oversteer, soften springs = better grip at expense of responsiveness, etc. My point being years ago we all learned this, it was part of sims, and we have used it through the years as we went to different sims; but newcomers aren't interested, they expect to download setups that will instantly have them driving like Senna at his prime. And when told this is something they need to learn, they lose interest; "that's too much trouble".

But no one wants to learn anymore. The entire world is being "dumbed down" and idiot proofed. Cyril Kornbluth was quite prescient when he wrote "The Marching Morons" nearly seventy years ago.

dont really wanna derail the thread but i unfortunately share this cynicism

with ac (my beloved) i see it mostly as a result of Why so many of that demographic are joining the playerbase. Look at the explosion of groups like no hesi / pushin p, the profits they're able to turn, and the relatively consistent growth of their playerbases (and discord servers, patreon subs). mostly fueled by a very...specific style of content creator. look at what pushin p for example sells as '1:1 realistic physics'. outside of installing the game and drag-and-dropping someone elses visual settings, the player doesnt have to learn or do anything for things to 'just work'. i wont even start talking about the drift community lol.

with ac, have to recognize that theres a precedent thats been set for (tens of) thousands of people's first introduction to 'racing simulation', its not some insignificant part of the playerbase. when these people branch out, those expectations follow them, as does the lack of knowledge that comes from only ever experiencing low-effort simcade physics (in a simulation engine). they've never had any reason to build an understanding of those setup fundamentals and likely never will - youtube/twitch is their guide and discord is their free troubleshooter.

 

[tilbakestaend]

but relevant to the actual thread, this isn't RD 'selling out' - we have yet to see Any proof whatsoever that that's the outcome we'll get. I'd argue consolidating the existing communities is a valuable thing and it's awesome to see that RD is taking steps to build into something even bigger.

the whole thing can go a number of ways. claiming we already know the outcome is irrational. there's huge potential for growth that benefits everyone.

When we see negative impact of changes made strictly for-profit I'd happily agree that it's selling out, but there's no evidence whatsoever so far and the openness to suggestions is something everyone should be taking advantage of, especially those seeing things through a purely cynical / negative lens.

** actually though, bring up a single thing Bram has said in response to any question so far or...any statements whatsoever from anyone actually involved in what's happening that show we'll see negative changes for the sake of profit. there are none. it's one thing to be skeptical, it's another to make wild assumptions. in a similar vein to what jgf brought up about how people in general act right now, it sure does seem like many are eager to hop on board with unfounded theorization, somehow managing to confuse it with valid skepticism.

 

[Andy_J]

Not sure I understand, the reason we have low activity on the "discussion" forum is because most people don't want to pay for that?
Did you mean aspect of organized online leagues racing, that does not interest good portion of sim racers at all.
So what is the value of premium for those, suppressing annoying ads (easy to disable even on the phone), and posting in Classifieds section?

I see paying that small ammount for premium as supporting this whole place and helping with the cost of running it. I just like to contribute. It's hardly a bank breaking sum of cash.

 

[Steve Bird]

Mike from Simracing604 recently started a podcast (SIMply Talking), two episodes so far but it's pretty good IMHO. Check it out.

Thanks mate, will do.

 

[Kek700]

As I quiet often, when I time, have look at the content out side of just racing, especially enjoying the content of the presenters here, either for sims, equipment or racing in general. I have a trust in their comments and have a feeling it is from an enthusiastic point of view, rather than a purely money making angle.
Plus the glitzy glamour that I associate with big business PR is reasonably absent so far with the Racedepartment presenters and the organisation, who I think are very good.
When ever I enter the world of glitz’s and smart suits there is a total loss of soul and ironically it just appears flat, empty and two dimensional, Race department for me has soul.
This loss is my biggest worry.

 

[Jim Layee]

dont really wanna derail the thread but i unfortunately share this cynicism

with ac (my beloved) i see it mostly as a result of Why so many of that demographic are joining the playerbase. Look at the explosion of groups like no hesi / pushin p, the profits they're able to turn, and the relatively consistent growth of their playerbases (and discord servers, patreon subs). mostly fueled by a very...specific style of content creator. look at what pushin p for example sells as '1:1 realistic physics'. outside of installing the game and drag-and-dropping someone elses visual settings, the player doesnt have to learn or do anything for things to 'just work'. i wont even start talking about the drift community lol.

with ac, have to recognize that theres a precedent thats been set for (tens of) thousands of people's first introduction to 'racing simulation', its not some insignificant part of the playerbase. when these people branch out, those expectations follow them, as does the lack of knowledge that comes from only ever experiencing low-effort simcade physics (in a simulation engine). they've never had any reason to build an understanding of those setup fundamentals and likely never will - youtube/twitch is their guide and discord is their free troubleshooter.

im not asking this to be dismissive of RDs actual value and purpose, cant begin to say how grateful I've felt for the community and knowledge that's shared here as i've started messing with both modding and racing myself, but why would that side of the market be interested in a forum, let alone its paid features?

What they've bought is detailed marketing data on up to three million people, everything else is just window dressing.
Personal data is the new gold

 

[Pete Conway]

The computer gaming community in general has shifted focus over the years. Where people once stuck with some games/sims for years, the trend now is to master a sim, or play completely through a game, as quickly as possible and move on to the next one.

This is exemplified by an appalling (to me) blog I read a few years ago. The person was speaking of Skyrim, (paraphrasing)
"I created a character and explored a cave, fought some creatures, found some loot. Went to a town, talked to some NPCs, visited another cave. Noticed I'd been playing three hours! I don't have time to talk to every NPC to get quests. I don't have time to look in every nook and cranny for loot. I like a game I can play though in 12-15 hours and move on."

An online game I played years ago basically died from this attitude. You advanced through six worlds, each more complex than the last. Most players, as they moved from the first to second world, would create a new world one character, and continue this as they advanced through the entire game. So all worlds had decent populations and there were many experienced players on each world to act as mentors. This all changed, the devs lamented that most new players merely wanted to zip through the entire game as quickly as possible and move on.

Years ago I noticed this trend with newcomers to race sims. No one wanted to learn to drive the cars, no one wanted to learn to tweak setups. They just wanted to hop into their favorite car, win every race in the game, and move on. So many posts of "do you have some setups I can download, I don't have time to make them myself". (Yes, and here's a pair of shoes from an Olympic sprinter, wear them and you'll run as fast as he does.)

It's a sad but true mindset of much of the population today, few want to learn anything now as quick fixes (through constant respawns and easy mode) allow games to be completed and cast aside, not just gaming but in industry and life in general, everything in this day and age seems to be based around the 'fast and disposable' and learning a trade seems to have gone out of the window too, Mechanics are now 'Fitters' and they understand only the very basics of what they need for their job.
My mate saw me setting up a car for GTR2, it wasn't much, I just moved the brake bias forward a bit raised the steering rack and lowered the tyre pressures and gearing, and he said "do you have to change much, I can just drive them as they are" I tried to explain that the changes I was making was because of the 'GTL' car I was using and what I wanted it to do ands how I wanted it to behave, but it just went over his head. he understood little about the game and or even racing.
Personally, I like to drive every lap, in and out and if I crash badly then that session is over for me, I'm the same with any other game I play, 'One life' it's a restart from scratch, that way I'm more careful about what I'm doing and who I'm picking on. but that's just me.