Motion system with 10000$ budget

[Pablo Roldan]

I have a rig with a tactile system built which i feel pretty good but from what i have read in this forum i with all probabity have no idea what i really good tactil system feels like.

Besides improving it which i think should be the first thing before going for a motion system i am thinking and thinking (or dreaming and dreaming) about what a motion route go for.

I like actuators because of the heave, and pitch to surf the road, but i see people with actuators and still using a seat mover to kind of feel de G-forces (even not sustained).So i am wandering which combination would work best for me:

1-Actuators+Seat mover (No traction loss, i am not building a >4 actuators setup in my room)
2-Actuators with G-seat (Simulated traction loss, and i wander if a g-seat fully replace seat mover)
3-Next limit Traction loss + Seat mover/Gseat (Missing the heave and pitch, but really would like to know how that nexlimit traction loss platform feels,if someone have it and can tell)

Or any other combination you find the best for you,i am just pointing these 3 out.

A G-Belt could fit on any i guess.

If you had around 10000$ what motion system would you build?(Not including pedals/wheel,shifter).

 

[metalnwood]

I live in New Zealand, most people dont get shafted as hard as us

 

[Pablo Roldan]

I see both P1-X and TR169 have an inner width of 500mm.

Do you think this accesorie from the TR160 could be mounted on the P1-X?:

320mm Raised Pedal Brackets for Formula Position on TR160 MK1 and MK2 – Trak Racer

www.trakracer.eu

I really like P1-X, but i am not convinced about its pedal platform

 

[OlaGB]

Not sure what you are worried about, as the P1x pedal platform can be moved however you want it, and is extremly rigid.
It also has T-slots both on top and under to fix pedals/transducers.

 

[Pablo Roldan]

Not sure what you are worried about, as the P1x pedal platform can be moved however you want it, and is extremly rigid.
It also has T-slots both on top and under to fix pedals/transducers.

Im not sure it can rise and tilt as much i need.

I am attaching a picture of how tilted my pedals are.And in the new cockpit i want them higher

 

[metalnwood]

Im not sure it can rise and tilt as much i need.

I am attaching a picture of how tilted my pedals are.And in the new cockpit i want them higher

Looking at the height, the height is not a problem, looks like your feet are only approaching where your bum will be, many p1 rigs are at least having the bottom of feet at same height you your 'bum'

That angle will be a problem with default, you would have to make up some stand to deal with the angle

 

[Pablo Roldan]

Looking at the height, the height is not a problem, looks like your feet are only approaching where your bum will be, many p1 rigs are at least having the bottom of feet at same height you your 'bum'

That angle will be a problem with default, you would have to make up some stand to deal with the angle

Thats why since i am new to aluminium profiles cockpits was asking if this would fit:

320mm Raised Pedal Brackets for Formula Position on TR160 MK1 and MK2 – Trak Racer

www.trakracer.eu

Woudnt know how to make up a stand to deal with the angle.

 

[metalnwood]

You could do that with the P1. Just get them to send you four extra brackets, and 2 lengths of 8040 200mm long.

You would mount each length on top of the side rail standing up, like the side uprights. That would give you an extra 200mm height of slot to lift the rear of the pedal tray to get the anlge you need.

 

[metalnwood]

 

[Pablo Roldan]

You could do that with the P1. Just get them to send you four extra brackets, and 2 lengths of 8040 200mm long.

You would mount each length on top of the side rail standing up, like the side uprights. That would give you an extra 200mm height of slot to lift the rear of the pedal tray to get the anlge you need.

Milos Milojvic from sim-lab told me this as a repply to my worries about the pedal tray:

"We don't have any update or upgrade kit for it but you can order:
4 profiles 40x80 400-500mm https://sim-lab.eu/shop/product/aluminium-extrusion-profile-40-series-1437#attr=1891,1905
8 corner brackets and 4 cover cap 40x80.
That should do the job"

But your solution sounds simpler.

 

[metalnwood]

Ah, I see, their solution is the same as mine but they have four in case you need to raise the lower part substantially higher than the bottom side rails.

 

[Pablo Roldan]

Those with P1-X where are you attaching the bodyshkers to the pedal plate,? .Look like in the TR160 bodyshakers would be closer to the pedals.

This is not my rig, i am still trying to decide between p1-x and tr160.

But in the p1-x looks like bodyshakers would have to be at the bottom and far away from pedals loosing a lot of vibration...

 

[metalnwood]

I have the p1 tray, on top of that I have the rubber bobbin type isolators, on top of that I have another tray I made from 4040. It has the shakers and the pedals mounted to that.

 

[Pablo Roldan]

I like the p1-x also because you can add:

Sim Floor

An aluminium diamond 4 mm thick plate to use as a footrest to be mounted in between the P1-X base profiles or the new GT1-EVO 2020 model.

sim-lab.eu

(I wonder if it would fit on the TR160)

But the pedal tray is goint to put me away from theP1-x i think ill go for the TR160 where they have this addon to raise the pedals and bodyshakers looks much easier to attach underneath it.

 

[metalnwood]

Yes, I guess with that raised pedal part you could insert the bobbins between the top of the adaptor and whatevr plate you put on top.

For the floor, I just cut up some plywood and put it on the inside mounted on 4 4040 brackets that support it from underneath. We dont want to look at plywood so I cut up a nice foam fatigue mat and placed that on top. I race in socks so it's nice to have a warm soft surface to rest on that aluminium.

 

[Cote Dazur]

If you had around 10000$ what motion system would you build

I would use the 10K to get a used track car and do track days, that is still the best tactile available.

 

[metalnwood]

I would use the 10K to get a used track car and do track days , that is still the best tactile available.

fixed it for you, thats why we race in sims
darn, you cant see, its not funny when you have to explain it.. I crossed out the S on days heh

 

[Cote Dazur]

fixed it for you, thats why we race in sims
darn, you cant see, its not funny when you have to explain it.. I crossed out the S on days heh

Still funny, and so much to the point, not every where, but here in Canada, track day(s) are very expensive. Did a little, but now, as I am almost retired, I cannot afford it anymore.
On my rig almost daily, with tactile, VR, DD, etc..., but 10K, seems, to me, like an extravagant amount of money and not at all necessary to reach a reasonable level of immersion.
I feel, sometime, reading post here, and in other thread, that the pursuit of better tactile or motion, is becoming for some more important than the driving itself, getting in the way of the immersion, by loosing them self in minute details.
This hobby does not need to be expensive to be fully experienced.

 

[Pablo Roldan]

Back to the P1-X haha.Have seen some TR160 buiding videos and there are some complains with little details and missing parts.

Also i might decide to go for SFX100/150 insteal of PT-Actuators, cheaper and the e-labs MEGA does not look bad at all.

 

[anton_Chez]

Yes sfx100 is completely discarded.

I am going to start with a G-belt and wait for the SimExperience G-Seat or the PT G-Seat wadji just posted.

If I may chime in here with some feedback. I've had basically everything you're looking at getting in some form, minus the G-Seat. I own/have owned NLR V3 seat mover, various forms of tactile hardware, built an SFX-100 of my own and recently added the SimXperience G-Belt system, all using a SimLab GT1 pre Evo chassis, just for qualification.

I've recently sold my SFX-100 system and also not so recently sold the Next Level V3 seat mover. Your budget is quite extensive, which is great, but I do feel that you should do it in a certain order to get the most out of it and also potentially save you a lot of money as well as time and effort. Adding motion comes with a lot of caveats, depending on the solution you settle on. Where/how your monitors, if any, are mounted, sound and vibration feedback relative not only to the room you're in but also throughout your house/apartment, the time consuming effort to tune and tweak profiles to feel just right, etc. The list really does go on and I've had at least some experience in all of those things. To cut a long story short, here is my advice on how you should progress this build since you're still in the planning stages, as far as I know.

Firstly, get your P1-X. Absolutely no reason not to. Fantastic chassis and for the price they are going for and you being in EU, it's a no brainer. The seat you choose, completely up to you. I've got a fixed Sparco Rev bucket and I find it very good. No seat slider or recliner here. Next, build your tactile. Don't mess about with bullshit little units with the budget you have. Get AT LEAST one BK LFE/Concert and 1 Clarke TST variant, Silver or Gold being ideal for sim racing uses. Power them with either the NX1000 or 3000 amp, it's 2 channel and will do the job. These should be mounted under the seat in some form, you might have to get creative with it but it's not that difficult to get it all fitting nicely especially if you're doing the build from scratch.

Next, G-Belt. For the price and ease of use for this product, it makes absolutely no sense to venture into the world of motion until you have one of these if you're already considering one. Honestly, do yourself a favour and just wear the import duties and shipping and try it. Mount it directly to the rear of the seat as is recommended and couple it with a 3" harness, 4, 5 or 6 point, whichever you get should work fine. I have a 4 point, used it as a 4 point for a bit and it was fine. Then, I swapped it into a 3 point, so 2 shoulder and 1 anti submarine aka the 5th point only, no lap belts. Works great for the G-Belt as you don't really need the lap straps and it's pretty comfortable and easy to use this way, too.

Only after trying this combo, would I then consider moving onto adding motion. I've had it, I liked it for a bit but in all honesty for me it tended to get in the way far too much and I like racing on a static rig now. I find much less distraction, less things go wrong re hardware and other things like tracks not suiting your profiles and becoming annoying over a race stint, etc. If you use monitor/s you'll most likely need to compromise on where and how you mount them and now that I do have a 49" super ultrawide this would be a deal breaker for sure for me had I still been using the SFX-100.

If you do find that this build is enough for you, you could then flesh your tactile build out a bit more with the left over budget funds and add units under the pedal tray but for me having the 2 units under the seat is more than enough and I find it a good balance between feedback and investment of time/money. There's a plethora of info on delving more into that, some of which might seem like a mine field but well worth taking a look at regardless.

Hopefully this feedback hasn't confused you even more but I thought given the topic I'm more than qualified to offer some thoughts and opinions in the effort of making your sim journey as enjoyable and resource efficient as possible.

 

[Pablo Roldan]

If I may chime in here with some feedback. I've had basically everything you're looking at getting in some form, minus the G-Seat. I own/have owned NLR V3 seat mover, various forms of tactile hardware, built an SFX-100 of my own and recently added the SimXperience G-Belt system, all using a SimLab GT1 pre Evo chassis, just for qualification.

I've recently sold my SFX-100 system and also not so recently sold the Next Level V3 seat mover. Your budget is quite extensive, which is great, but I do feel that you should do it in a certain order to get the most out of it and also potentially save you a lot of money as well as time and effort. Adding motion comes with a lot of caveats, depending on the solution you settle on. Where/how your monitors, if any, are mounted, sound and vibration feedback relative not only to the room you're in but also throughout your house/apartment, the time consuming effort to tune and tweak profiles to feel just right, etc. The list really does go on and I've had at least some experience in all of those things. To cut a long story short, here is my advice on how you should progress this build since you're still in the planning stages, as far as I know.

Firstly, get your P1-X. Absolutely no reason not to. Fantastic chassis and for the price they are going for and you being in EU, it's a no brainer. The seat you choose, completely up to you. I've got a fixed Sparco Rev bucket and I find it very good. No seat slider or recliner here. Next, build your tactile. Don't mess about with bullshit little units with the budget you have. Get AT LEAST one BK LFE/Concert and 1 Clarke TST variant, Silver or Gold being ideal for sim racing uses. Power them with either the NX1000 or 3000 amp, it's 2 channel and will do the job. These should be mounted under the seat in some form, you might have to get creative with it but it's not that difficult to get it all fitting nicely especially if you're doing the build from scratch.

Next, G-Belt. For the price and ease of use for this product, it makes absolutely no sense to venture into the world of motion until you have one of these if you're already considering one. Honestly, do yourself a favour and just wear the import duties and shipping and try it. Mount it directly to the rear of the seat as is recommended and couple it with a 3" harness, 4, 5 or 6 point, whichever you get should work fine. I have a 4 point, used it as a 4 point for a bit and it was fine. Then, I swapped it into a 3 point, so 2 shoulder and 1 anti submarine aka the 5th point only, no lap belts. Works great for the G-Belt as you don't really need the lap straps and it's pretty comfortable and easy to use this way, too.

Only after trying this combo, would I then consider moving onto adding motion. I've had it, I liked it for a bit but in all honesty for me it tended to get in the way far too much and I like racing on a static rig now. I find much less distraction, less things go wrong re hardware and other things like tracks not suiting your profiles and becoming annoying over a race stint, etc. If you use monitor/s you'll most likely need to compromise on where and how you mount them and now that I do have a 49" super ultrawide this would be a deal breaker for sure for me had I still been using the SFX-100.

If you do find that this build is enough for you, you could then flesh your tactile build out a bit more with the left over budget funds and add units under the pedal tray but for me having the 2 units under the seat is more than enough and I find it a good balance between feedback and investment of time/money. There's a plethora of info on delving more into that, some of which might seem like a mine field but well worth taking a look at regardless.

Hopefully this feedback hasn't confused you even more but I thought given the topic I'm more than qualified to offer some thoughts and opinions in the effort of making your sim journey as enjoyable and resource efficient as possible.

Thanks a lot anton_Chez for taking your time and share your knowledge.

This does not confuse me at all, this is the reason why i opened this thread to try not make the same mistakes some simracers have done because they didnt have anyone ahead of them telling them what works and what doesnt.I thank you for it.

They first step is getting the rig , bucket and a decent tactile system. The is very clear to me.

Right now i have 5 entry level bodyshakers.Which are powered by a t.Amp D4-500.

2 bodyshakers connented in parallel for the left side of the seat and another 2 also in parallel for the right side of the seat.The 5th bodyshaker is underneath the pedals. They only work in the 28-40Hz range so i must be missing a lot....(Here ignorance is blessing and i feel it works pretty good).

Ive been reading the tactile threads (which are huge) and undestood as you pointed the need to add at least a buttkicker LFE and a Clarke TST (this last one i coudnt found available yet) to the seat.

This christmas ill buy the rig,bucket,buttcker LFE and a beringer 3000dsp. And will keep pretty much the same tactile setup but adding the Butkicker LFE at the bottom of the seat for low frequencies and once i find a Clarke TST ill add it for higher frequencies.

The motion as you say is one thing that i really want but i understand it has to be very well implemented to not get in the way.So is something i am willing to give a lot more thoughts/talk over.

When driving and feeling the kerbs, engine, etc with the tactile system i try to imagine how would i feel if i had also motion.How would a motion system that just move a tiny bit to give your brain the clues it needs would work for me when i am about to go up/down a hill or take a turn.How would it be compared to a motion system as the SFX150 where you can match the road slope at any moment and if not done perfectly i think ill would feel as if someone is moving my chair instead of going inside a car.

I had the oportunity to try a G-Belt in a F1 simulator some time ago and i was impressed. Looks like a very good addon with a very low risk of not liking it.

Thanks once again