Mobile Driving/Flying Cockpit with Motion and Tactile ( Build )

[blekenbleu]

how that impacts the frequencies.

In theory, not at all, so long as preloaded springs remain in their linear range.
Frequency is proportional to the square root of (spring rate / mass).
FWIW, this theory is widely accepted and general engineering practice...
Be aware that, depending on how preload is applied,
spring travel may be constrained, provoking non-linearity.

 

[metalnwood]

I have not noticed much of anything, once you tighten the isolator enough so that it is not 'sloppy', Sloppy being done up just enough to hold everything together, giving maximum flex under braking etc.

It is noticable transitioning from sloppy to having the springs loaded.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I believe this is pretty well sorted.

This design makes heavy use of 1/4" (6.35mm) thick angle aluminum.

Having the angle cross members through bolted to the seat brackets creates a rigid frame to support the seat and transducers.

The TST-429 will be mounted very close to the vertical section of angle to transmit more vibration and less flex to the seat brackets.

The rear section has two pieces of angle through bolted. I believe this will also be very solid and not require additional bracing.

The tricky part was figuring out how to mount the bottom supports to the NLRv3 pedestal is a solid way without interfering with either the P1 frame or the NLRv3 base.

Below shows overlapping Angle aluminum.
The green angle is through bolted to the NLRv3.
The lower red angle will be bolted to the green angle.

The front support has good clearance with the NLRv3 body, spring, and arm and has room between it and the profile around it.

In back there will be a compression fit.

The lower red angle will through bolt the NLRv3 and a block of 1"x1.5" solid aluminum from the top and side.

The bottom isolator support has about 1/4" clearance when the NLRv3 is tilted all the way back and a bit more when it is tilted all the way left.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I'm currently 3D printing the mounts for my foot plate and hope to test the Race Base isolation system on the front of my rig soon. Once have them mounted and assuming it they work as well as many have said, I will replace my swiss cheese foot plate. I will be adding two additional holes to it to fit these mounts properly and make two rear tabs.

I have the aluminum I need to do an initial build of my NLRv3 mount, but I will need some additional angle to finish it. I expect some of the dimensions to change. Before I cut metal, I plan to 3D print a number of parts to make sure that the alignment is good, the holes match up and the motion clearance looks good. So my rig will be out of commission for a while as I make any final adjustments to this.

I'm considering sharing the drawings for the NLR mounts on Thingaverse if they work well.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Wasn't expecting everything to arrive today.
3D printing my mounts as fast as I can!!!!

 

[Mr Latte]

Nice to see things coming together....

Considerations:
Possibly for the rear, instead of the L shaped plate to mount the BK
Have a bit of profile attached to a flat rear baseplate, it may need to be slightly longer to give clearance for the spring bolt/cap but this way an L bracket (green) for the BK or (dual BK) could be easily mounted and slid into place if it was a bit of profile.

Something very few people do but, it is possible would be to have a connection from these tactile-based plates that lets you connect with the underside of the seat. A front - back contact in the base of the seat. We can dampen this a little but it would then increase the spread of the tactile into the seat.

Currently, like most bucket seats, this design you have would transfer all the bass energy into the seat via the 4x mounting bolts. So a contact point underneath the seat can be a benefit *(based on past tests I did on seats)

 

[RCHeliguy]

Nice to see things coming together....

Considerations:
Possibly for the rear, instead of the L shaped plate to mount the BK
Have a bit of profile attached to a flat rear baseplate, it may need to be slightly longer to give clearance for the spring bolt/cap but this way an L bracket (green) for the BK or (dual BK) could be easily mounted and slid into place if it was a bit of profile.

Something very few people do but, it is possible would be to have a connection from these tactile-based plates that lets you connect with the underside of the seat. A front - back contact in the base of the seat. We can dampen this a little but it would then increase the spread of the tactile into the seat.

Currently, like most bucket seats, this design you have would transfer all the bass energy into the seat via the 4x mounting bolts. So a contact point underneath the seat can be a benefit *(based on past tests I did on seats)

I could use a 6" wide x 1/4" flat plate in back and bolt up to a piece of profile. The profile would help provide the rigidity of the angle. That might move the BK backwards about 15-20mm so I still had clearance for the isolation bolts.

I'll have to think about adding a contact patch to the seat. It's possible. I just need to think it through before I start drilling my seat.

 

[blekenbleu]

drilling my seat

Alternatively:

 

[RCHeliguy]

This will become my new rear tabs for my foot plate.

 

[RCHeliguy]

This is one of the two rear mounts that bolt into the side and under a 40x40 piece of profile.

I think the red works

Left is a Front mount. Right is a Rear mount.
A front is printing now and in the morning I'll kick off the remaining rear and they will be done.

Point of no return.

After all 4 mounts are printed, I'll take measurements to drill the new foot plate holes and for the new rear tabs.

 

[blekenbleu]

If "preload" nuts and bolts are untensioned while driver is seated,
then nyloc nuts, jam nuts or loctite is wanted.

 

[RCHeliguy]

If "preload" nuts and bolts are untensioned while driver is seated,
then nyloc nuts, jam nuts or loctite is wanted.

These are just test fittings. I'll be using locknuts on this when I'm actually installing the plate.

My sim rig finally gets a suspension

Waiting for the final rear mount to print.

Pretty full in there.

Measurements for the plate taken.

Needed measurements to make sure the plate was centered, then square, then after centering rubber isolators on top and getting centers, there was a 4mm offset because the springs were not tightened straight. Ready to drill.

I'm taking this slow and working with it as a prototype, which means I'll drill and fit the front plate and then take measurements in back.

 

[RCHeliguy]

There is currently room for 10mm of travel in front and 12.25 mm of travel in back. That's using low profile pan head bolts and bevel head bolts where ever possible. In the front green angle, there will actually be relief holes for the bolts directly above so I can get that 10mm of travel. Otherwise it would only be 6mm.

Reducing the overall height addition has required a lot of iteration, but the suspension currently adds 16.25mm or .64" of height over bolting my seat brackets directly to the top of the NLRv3 like it is now.

The Bolt heads and tensioning nuts for the isolators need easy access.

I'm not adding a second BK-CT at this time, but I was making sure it could work for the future.

If it turns out that I don't have enough travel, I can always add height, but I'll be starting with the minimum possible I could come up with.

 

[RCHeliguy]

All 4 mounts are printed.

The foot plate is drilled for the front isolators. This plate is seriously looking like swiss cheese. It has 13 holes no longer serving any function. I'll get to it eventually, but it will wait since I have bigger fish to fry.

Next I need to measure to fabricate the rear tabs, but that will have to wait for another day.

It's funny because the springs feel so stiff, you wonder how they could move at all, but I also realize they should work better because they can bounce where-as my previous Sorbothane only dampens vibrations out.

 

[metalnwood]

Yes, they can flex! It will be interesting to see how it goes on yours as your configuration is quite different with hanging pedals, so you have more of a lever to transfer energy on to the front springs than floor mounted pedals.

I think with the big LFE unit you can tighten the bolts up more though.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Made some additional measurements for the NLRv3 solution, verified everything a few times. Ordered aluminum plate, angle and low profile fasteners. I should have all my parts by middle of next week.

Next week I'll remove my seat bracket and 3D print parts in the shapes I'll be milling the aluminum. I'll test fit the Race Base isolators to my NLRv3 without a seat. I'll absolutely verify the motion will have no interference and finalize every measurement.

Then I'll start milling the aluminum.

I'll consider the direct coupling between the rear BK-CT and the seat after I get the rest worked out. That should be something I can easily add after the fact.

I'll be relying on the profile bolted to the aluminum plates for rigidity. It turns out I needed longer plates than I could get angle for. The BK-CT will continue to use the same mount it has to the existing 40x40 profile bolted to my seat bracket now.

I had the seat brackets off a bit so some dimensions changed for the top plates once I corrected that. I have 1" thick UHMW stock, but also ordered aluminum stock. I'm not sure if the aluminum is necessary, UHMW does not compress and it much easier to work with and less likely to make any squeaks.

 

[RCHeliguy]

If it wasn't obvious at this point, I'm setting my rig up to work with Mr. Latte as a beta tester of his tactile effects.

That is one reason for transducers I'm using and my recent purchase of the DSP boxes.
My rig will represent a "Stage 1" implementation with front/rear BK/TST pairs and 4 exciters on my seat.

I'm also helping with product development outside of what I show in this thread for my rig. Let's just say that he has ambitions that go well beyond "Stage 1".

So while I'm working on custom mounting solutions for my somewhat off the beaten path rig that I'm showing here, I'm also working with Mr. Latte on more general use solutions that people should be able to easily bolt up to a profile rig.

I'm excited to help with this and to experience what is developing. From what I'm seeing a tipping point has been reached where both momentum and interest are picking up quickly.

 

[Mr Latte]

Very much appreciated is your willingness to help and skillset, too Mark....

 

[RCHeliguy]

I feel a hug coming on

 

[RCHeliguy]

This is the most complex bit of aluminum jigsaw puzzle work I've done to date.

To get the Race-Base mounts to fit with enough clearance while keeping the overall height increase small has been "interesting". Once I had the brackets where I needed them, figuring out how to fasten them in place without having too much bolt head exposed or a locknut sticking out has been challenging.

The right green solid block of aluminum has a captive locknut in the center of it because there was no room at the bottom for a protruding nut. So it will be bolted to the top of the inside of the NLRv3 left rail channel. Then the piece of angle for the mount will fit just barely inside the channel next to it and be side bolted with a compression fit. Then the angle will be through bolted using a countersunk bolt from the bottom with a recessed area at the top of the aluminum block for the locknut.

The front is where I had the most concerns just getting a workable position, but it will be a bit easier to assemble.

I'm almost ready to 3D print these parts for a test fit, but I'm not ready to tear my rig apart yet since I don't have the front end complete. With a test fit, I'll be able to run the NLRv3t through it's full range of motion and measure my clearances at the tightest spots.