Mobile Driving/Flying Cockpit with Motion and Tactile ( Build )

RCHeliguy · Aug 30, 2021

HoiHman said:
Looking forward to the result Can"t wait to see your solution.
I'm still wondering though if a BK-CT isn't overkill for a single isolated heel plate

I get most of my project stuff done to in the early AM hours.

I think this represents a basic mock up of the solution I'm going for.

I bumped up to 50 Durometer Sorbothane under all 4 corners to support the weight better.
I'm going to add a very slight tilt towards me while driving.
The rectangular tubes will be through bolted with beveled bolts and lock nuts to the foot plate. The CT support plate and 1/4" aluminum tabs will be bolted to the top and bottom of the tubing in back for the rear isolator mounts.

This puts the CT in a rear tandem arrangement, back and submerged a bit so as not to interfere with the brake pedal and keeps it high enough not to interfere with the flight pedals underneath. The TST keeps its direct path under my heals and the CT should still have an abundance of power.

I've debated angling the rectangular tubing towards the center in the back.

The tubing will be angle cut at the front and back and have holes cut for nut drivers and I'm thinking the front of the tubes will start about 1" back from the edge of the foot plate.
The tabs at the back will be about 2" wide at the isolators and taper to the tubes.

I'm letting the aesthetics percolate for the moment. Then I'll start cutting and drilling.
As I mentioned earlier, I do have another fresh piece of plate to remake the foot plate once I'm done drilling this one which will have 11 extra holes in it.

HoiHman · Aug 30, 2021

That's looking really good and should work fine @RCHeliguy .

Another option for the heel plate can be adding a thin decorative aluminum plate on top of the current heel plate covering all the holes for a nice finish.

Like i did with mine :

RCHeliguy · Aug 30, 2021

Looks nice! I'm not worrying about finishing my foot plate until I've shaken this concept down. I'm focusing on making sure that it all feels right, that the isolator supports are adequate, ie. do I need to try 70 Durometer instead of 50 to support the BK-CT and extra framing. 30 Durometer was too soft for support and basically squished on me. The 50 feels substantially better, but time will tell.

Last weekend wiped me out! Still dragging but had a lot of fun. It will definitely impact when I get into my shop.

What's funny is that if I say that I played too hard last weekend, people always assume I mean that I have a hang over and I didn't even drink last weekend, but I had a lot of fun.

RCHeliguy · Aug 30, 2021

Something like this might even work to functionally finish the surface. I should actually have some non-abrasive 6" grip tape somewhere. Not sure where I put it.

https://www.amazon.com/CatTongue-Grips-Abrasive-Grip-Tape/dp/B08CS3Q3Y4

I look at this and keep thinking that something aluminum cast that is more organic looking would be very cool. I could use the Fusion 360 feature to help optimize the support structure and then 3D print the template to sand cast it. I just don't have all the tools I need to properly machine something like that, but it sounds good.

RCHeliguy · Aug 31, 2021

The basic cuts are done.
Will cut 45 degree angles at the bottom of the tubes.
I believe I can just put a wrench in for the M6 lock nuts and just install them deepest first.
For the M5 bolts on the foot plate, I'll need at least one through hole for a socket.

I'll use double sided carpet tape to help drill and shape the rear tabs together.

Edit: 9/1 a bit further.

RCHeliguy · Aug 31, 2021

Just designed a dual 8 pole connector mount to 3D print in anticipation for the next stage to support 4 x exciters, even though I haven't got my rig back together yet.

Edit: 9/1 Added an additional slot stabilizer and extended it back another 20mm to cover the sheathing better. Print started.

RCHeliguy · Sep 1, 2021

I redesigned my 4 Pole connector mount to fix a few issues with the first version.

I couldn't move it or detach it with the receiver in place.
If the fastening bolt wasn't tight enough it could spin.
Since this receiver requires soldering when dealing with a prewired transducers like a TST I would have to solder the receiver with wire through the mount which is also inconvenient.

RCHeliguy · Sep 2, 2021

This Neutrik mount will work well on my new footplate with 2 transducers and allow me to easily solder the connector to my transducer wiring before I bolt it up to my rig.

The Dual 8 Pole Neutrik mount is functional, but I made a few additional modifications to make it work better on my rig. I also found some better looking chrome screws for them.

A bit more to drill and cut today. I should have this finished tomorrow. Once I have everything fitting together properly I'll make all the aluminum flush, put a nice finish on it and then put my rig back together for the long weekend

I look forward to trying all of this out.

About time to put more holes in my swiss cheese foot plate.

Here it is with all cuts and holes complete.
Now I wish I had a glass beading station, but I'll pretty it up a bit more before installing it.
I might want to drill a hole for a cable support, but I'm not sure yet.
Still a bit of sanding/grinding to get it finished.

I've got it impact wrench tight! Started the polishing process. The foot plate will stay satin. Everything else will be a mirror finish

RCHeliguy · Sep 3, 2021

Trying to be patient. I'm polishing with BLITZ and a drill and the results are good, but it's not quite a mirror finish yet and I'm going to try to keep at it until it's where I want it. My 70 durometer donuts arrive Saturday, but I'll likely have it together in the morning just because I can.

Edit: 9/3
I got it finished to this point and installed the transducers. I swapped the TST329 to the front, put the TST429 on the back.
I need to solder to the 4 pole plug and then I can install on my rig.

RCHeliguy · Sep 3, 2021

The new footplate is installed. I think it looks pretty good!

And the TST429 is now mounted on my seat.

This shows how clearance is maintained above my flight pedals.

RCHeliguy · Sep 5, 2021

I finally got a chance to start dialing this in. I applied the same filtering to the BK-CT in front as in back. Currently my 329 and 429 have the same curves, but in back it has become obvious the TST429 is quite a bit more powerful. Not necessarily needed, but definitely there.

I'm running nearly identical outputs to the TST329 in front as the TST429 in back and I get something that is nearly appropriate adjusting for moving just the foot plate vs. the seat. The TST329 is ideally placed right under my feet and still has plenty of power there.

The BK-CT in front isn't placed ideally so I'm giving it one more notch at the amplifier, but that got it pretty even with the seat.
BK-CT in back = 12 o'clock
BK-CT in front = 1 o'clock

This is because the CT is back far enough that more of the power is going into the rear isolators and less to the front plate, but I have plenty of power to compensate. It does dampen the impacts a bit and it is putting a lot more power into my entire chassis. I suspect that the Race-Bass mounts would work much better and I look forward to trying them out.

While the BK-CT at the front may seem like a lot, it is giving me a much more balanced feeling. The front and back can now give me a uniform feeling. I still have a bit more work to get everything dialed in, but the effects work much more similarly now and feel balanced.

RCHeliguy · Sep 5, 2021

The BK-CT was rocking and I was getting good motion, but not good impacts.

I'm moved the mount points back so the BK-CT is centered between them and now the impacts are sharp! This is shown by the red arrows in the picture below.

The TST329 doesn't appear to be affected much by this move. If anything it is a bit more efficient.

First shot showing all 4 transducers.

After I got comfortable with the effects I was getting from everything, I dialed everything back to an immersive but not overly done level. It's getting better and better, but I'm going to keep playing with it a bit.

RCHeliguy · Sep 7, 2021

Got some more gear, but the Exciters are estimated to be back in stock November 19th, and I still need the t.rack DSP's, so much of this goes into a corner to wait.

Lots of 1/4 to 1/8 stereo adapters for the t.racks.

I reprinted my Dual 8 Pole mount to fit my rig better.

Perfect

Now I can get 4 more channels of tactile to my rig.

I'll wire up the amplifier to the 8 pole connector since I can, but I'll leave the rest until the exciters get there.

RCHeliguy · Sep 8, 2021

Ordered 2x t.racks 4x4 DSP's that should be here Friday.

the t.racks DSP 4x4 Mini

Compact 4-Channel DSP Inputs: 4x 6.3 mm jack balanced, Outputs: 6.3 mm jack balanced, Programming via USB (Windows), Power supply via external 12 V DC power adapter (centre positive), Weight: 0.6 kg, Dimensions: 160 x 150 x 40 mm, Incl. power...

www.thomannmusic.com

I'll transfer my curves from Equalizer APO to the external DSP's for my two BK/TST pairs over the weekend.

While I have my thoughts on this subject, the only real con is additional cost and these are not that expensive.

Cons:

Another failure point
extra cost
extra complexity.

Pros:

No concerns about reinstallation after Windows patches
Software configuration is simpler
Set it and forget it external device.
Meets with Mr. Latte's approval since I'd like to see where tactile can go.

I try not to get religious about things, and to be fair Mr. Latte has been right about everything I've tried to date, so I'm falling in line.

At some point I could A/B Equalizer APO with the DSP's to see if given the same curves I can actually feel any difference in how the effects feel and transducers perform. Time will tell, but I can understand why he wants as much consistency as possible.

blekenbleu · Sep 8, 2021

RCHeliguy said:
not to get religious

Software DSP in PC can involve several sound card channels for a single SimHub effect to several amplifier+tactile devices,
while external hardware DSP can crossover and equalize a single sound card effect channel to several amplifier+tactile devices, perhaps avoiding multiple sound cards dedicated to SimHub.

Mr Muntarg · Sep 8, 2021

Just had a look through . Amazing rig

RCHeliguy · Sep 8, 2021

My t.rack DSP's ordered today will arrive tomorrow! Assuming they don't already have a warehouse in the US, that's pretty amazing!
Edit: It turns out that they are shipping from a warehouse in Delaware and they are still arriving on Friday.

My 70 Durometer Sorbothane arrived today and I swapped them out such that there are 70 Durometer on all 4 bottoms and 50 Durometer on all 4 tops of my foot plate supports.

The 30 Durometer Sorbothane is mushed. They looked worse under pressure.

FWIW I can't feel much difference between the 50 and 70 Durometer supporting the plate, but it looks less squished in front.

Mr Muntarg · Sep 10, 2021

Hi Heliguy , Just as a point of discussion and i hope it doesn't come across as a criticism . With the shakers being isolated to the heal plate how well does that simulate locking brakes . I feel like in a real car you get a lot of tactile feedback through the brake pedal

RCHeliguy · Sep 10, 2021

Mr Muntarg said:
Hi Heliguy , Just as a point of discussion and i hope it doesn't come across as a criticism . With the shakers being isolated to the heal plate how well does that simulate locking brakes . I feel like in a real car you get a lot of tactile feedback through the brake pedal

This is a gray area and one of personal preference. The BK-CT up front does transfer vibrations into my frame despite the isolators I'm using. At one point I tried mounting a transducer to the horizontal 40x120 profile directly above my pedals and I didn't like how it felt. It's entirely possible I applied it wrong or there were other interactions causing issues. What I have now is at least in sync and consistent feeling.

I was testing things yesterday and the level of vibration I have feels balanced and natural.

I do have 4 x Aura's sitting in my closet and a new 4 channel amplifier, so I could potentially experiment. However I'm tempted to stick with what Mr. Latte is recommending for now vs. any departures.