Little dilema, what would you do...

[racinjoe013]

When I got back into sim racing awhile back, I blew my budget on the computer so I have been using my old T150 with t3pa pedals while I save for a Fanatec. As luck would have it, the T150 is going south in a hurry and I don't have the funds for the Fanatec yet. I can afford a T300RS now to go with my upgraded pedals, but that probably means the Fanatect is out the window for the forseeable future. Or I could find a used T150 or bargain on another T150 to tide me over and just delay the Fanatec purchase since I will eat a little into the Fanatec savings.

What would you do? For someone who loves sim racing and wastes most of my free time on it but doesn't take it ridiculously serious that i'm in online leagues or competitions, is the Fanatec light years better than a T300RS to make it worth going the used T150 route for the time being. Or would I be perfectly happy with the difference in ffb from upgrading to a T300RS over the T150 i've been using and just forget about the Fanatec until the T300 breaks?

Thanks for any opinions...

 

[RasmusP]

Wanted to pop in and say thanks for all the input.

I ended up ordering a T300. While a Fanatec was what I wanted, the fact that my T150 broke before I could afford one meant I needed something now. Couldn't justify taking $200 from my Fanatec budget to get another T150 to tide me over when based on what was said here, the T300 would suit my needs well enough. Like I said in my original post, while I love racing sims I don't take it seriously or compete in competitions and I don't think any wheel was going to make me a better driver. All I really wanted was an upgrade from my T150 and I think the T300 will serve that well enough.

Thanks again or all the help and feedback...

Report back when you've set everything up

The t300 really is a great wheel. When looking for a wheel there are 3 most important things:

1. Quick enough turning on it's own!
When the rear starts to slide, the front tyres stay straight and still have grip. So the chassis is rotating around the grippy front tyres, which results in the steering wheel turning on its own.
When you have a t150 or a Logitech driving force gt like one of my best friends, the wheel won't turn quick enough.
You then either need to throw the wheel to accelerate the movement or you simply will start to slide with the front tyres too.
With a direct drive wheel for example, you just open your hands when a slide comes and grab it again in the right moment.
Catching slides became a lot easier on the ts-pc and csw 2.5 compares to my g27!

The t300 is definitely fast enough! The g25/7/9 are borderline fast enough.

2. Enough ffb dynamic so you can feel things like increased grip at higher speeds due to working aero.
G27 to csw 2.5: same average strength dialed it but when I go into a corner at 200 km/h with a gt3, I now feel the increased grip. With the g27 I couldn't.
T300 is strong enough for this. Not awesome, but enough.

3. Precision!
The Logitech G-series wheels all have a big dead zone in the center. With assetto corsa (and acc since a few updates ago), you can use my LUT to have a smooth and tight center but in all other games you have a dead center or a too tight, shaking center.
But it's never smooth...

So doing very little corrections when almost driving straight becomes quite difficult.
The t300 is as tight as it goes, like the higher end wheels too.
I would even go so far that I likes the ts-pc better in this regard compared to my csw 2.5!
The csw is so smooth, that you sometimes turn without noticing. The ts-pc had this nice, tight basic resistance to be more precise.


Just to give you a good foundation to be happy with your purchase

 

[racinjoe013]

Will do. I will use your settings in the link provided above as a base to start with and see where that takes me. Unfortunately I am going to have to wait until Monday. Not sure why Amazon Prime isn't getting this to me in two days like usual. Thought I would have it by Friday and would have the weekend to set it up.

 

[vegaguy5555]

Last I checked the Accuforce v2 Pro was the same price, $1000 US, as the Fanatec v2.5/rim?
And Sim commander software is insane in itself let alone a DD wheel.
Although I think it is the weakest DD on the market, at 13 Nm?

 

[racinjoe013]

Wheel came early. In quick testing it does everything I hoped it would do. I feel more effects, but they are all more subtle in their presentation. No more of that harsh rattling going over kerbs or road bumps that shook the table I had the T150 mounted to. Did noticed the wheel is harder to turn to the point that i'm going to have to get over the feeling that i'm going to break it when steering because of the resistance. Now I just need to adjust my ffb strengths for the various effects. I had been using what I had the T150 set at for my quick tests. Still worked well, but probably could be better. Tried to read through the thread posted above with some recommended settings but had trouble following it. Probably because I was skimming over it instead of reading the whole thing.

Couple of real quick question though. Do most T300 owners just keep the default settings in the Thrustmaster Control Panel? Also, I saw mention when reading some reviews of keeping the fan on all the time. Where do you do that at exactly? Lastly, I typically don't use ffb post processing so does it matter what I have the center boost gain and center boost range set at in CM? And if so, what is recommended? Right now I have 0% for gain and 10% for range.

 

[RasmusP]

Do most T300 owners just keep the default settings in the Thrustmaster Control Panel?

I don't have a t300 but the ts-pc I had has the same settings. Yes, defaults are fine!
Just make sure you're using 900° (or 1080 but most games are optimized to 900 so I used this).
Damper and spring are either not used or have a setting for it inside the games (wheel weight in dirt rally for example).
The two different main ffb channels (periodic and constant?) should be at default. You can change the mix of the ffb but... I wouldn't recommend this since all other wheel only have one main channel...

Also, I saw mention when reading some reviews of keeping the fan on all the time. Where do you do that at exactly?

You have to Google for it. There's a button combination that you need to press afaik.

Lastly, I typically don't use ffb post processing so does it matter what I have the center boost gain and center boost range set at in CM? And if so, what is recommended? Right now I have 0% for gain and 10% for range.

No, no ffb post processing needed with the t300.
Also, when the center boost gain is at 0%, the range value doesn't matter at all, since the whole thing is disabled then.
And don't use it!

Wish you good fun with the wheel!

Also: if you keep the default gain in the thrustmaster control panel, which is 70% iirc? Then you don't need to force the fans to be always full on, since you're not using the full force of the wheel

 

[boomRoasted]

@racinjoe013

Glad you're enjoying the new wheel! I did the googling for you for the fan control.

Full Document

As far as the FFB thread is concerned, you can try Tassos' setup but you may find it a bit too "heavy" given your description of the T150 FFB. The cfg file and gyro setting changes can be a bit frustrating to find but I don't think, given Rasmus' reasoning, you need to make any changes to get the desired effects from the T300.

 

[racinjoe013]

Thanks for the info guys. Having quite a bit of fun with this thing. I've been intentionally trying to drive bad just to see how the wheel reacts in different situations. So far it's been interesting to feel the difference between the old and new wheel. Catching a loose car seems easier now that I can feel it breaking loose a lot better. Much more realistic feeling overall that's for sure. I also noticed with Sidekick that I never redline the ffb clip indicator anymore when using the same force settings as before, which is nice. Guess I can bump them up a bit if I wanted to.

 

[racinjoe013]

Probably a stupid ffb question. If I like to set a custom ffb strength setting for individual cars in game using the ffb app and I always seem to end up at 75%, would that be the same as just setting the master gain percentage in CM to 75% and then not have to mess with individual settings for each car? Hope that made sense.

 

[Kevin Troschinski]

I don`t know why someone said here: the settings should be default.

The spring setting @100 destroys everything. Because its artifical center the wheel all the time.

As far i know nearly everyone uses 0 spring.

These are my basic settings without any lut if you want try:

Profiler

overal strenght 75
constant 100
periodic 100
spring 0
damper 100 (0 if you feel better)

auto center 12% (through game)


In game

FF strength 100
filer 0
minimum force 3

kerbs 60
road 35 <-- some quality mods advise even higher numbers here
slip 25 <-- -"-
abs 10

enchanced understeer, half ffb - OFF

PS: About your last question - i would set the ffb car by car. Yes allot of cars end up by about 75% but some others (often mods) must be set even @60-65 while others @ 95-105%

And yes the sidekick-ffb_meter is enough to set up correctly.

 

[Stereo]

Probably a stupid ffb question. If I like to set a custom ffb strength setting for individual cars in game using the ffb app and I always seem to end up at 75%, would that be the same as just setting the master gain percentage in CM to 75% and then not have to mess with individual settings for each car? Hope that made sense.

Right, set AC's overall gain to the number that feels good to you most of the time. It doesn't change the strength at which anything clips.

 

[RasmusP]

Probably a stupid ffb question. If I like to set a custom ffb strength setting for individual cars in game using the ffb app and I always seem to end up at 75%, would that be the same as just setting the master gain percentage in CM to 75% and then not have to mess with individual settings for each car? Hope that made sense.

Yes, the per-car-gain and main menu gain are the same.
The end gain is both of them multiplied (75% and 75% = 56,25%.
Clipping happens when the end gain reaches 100%.
Lowering the gain means the average forces are reduced but you still might get "100% spikes" send to your wheel.
When hitting a tree for example

So lowering game gain = more dynamic ffb.

The wheel software gain works differently! If you lower the gain there, it will move the actual clipping value.
So you get lower average force but also lower peak force.

With game gain and wheel software gain, you can mix the dynamic of the ffb to your liking.

The spring setting @100 destroys everything. Because its artifical center the wheel all the

No, you're confusing the spring ffb channel with the artificial centering spring.
These are 2 things, nothing to do with each other.

Spring ffb channel is, as far as I know and my testing goes, not used in any game.
So it doesn't matter what you set there.

However the centering spring is the one at the bottom of the software where you can select controlled by the game or controlled by the wheel and then set the value.

As far i know nearly everyone uses 0 spring.

Yes, because everyone confuses the spring ffb channel and the center spring so this misconception is handed down to every new person with a ffb wheel.


Btw the kerbs setting is completely artificial and destroys any feel for the tyres when you're going over a kerb.
In assetto, kerbs are actual physically correct 3D models which give physically accurate ffb when you're going over them.

The kerbs slider on the other hand is just a sine wave ffb signal that gets activated when your wheels are touching a surface that's set as "kerb" in the surface.ini of a track.

I like the kerbs setting to be at 1-5% to feel when I'm going over a kerb surface (with lower grip), that's not a 3D model.
It only gives a subtle vibration then, instead of shaking my wheel although nothing actually happens, physically.

 

[Kevin Troschinski]

No, you're confusing the spring ffb channel with the artificial centering spring.
These are 2 things, nothing to do with each other.

Spring ffb channel is, as far as I know and my testing goes, not used in any game.
So it doesn't matter what you set there.

However the centering spring is the one at the bottom of the software where you can select controlled by the game or controlled by the wheel and then set the value.

Yes, because everyone confuses the spring ffb channel and the center spring so this misconception is handed down to every new person with a ffb wheel.

Thanks for your explanation Rasmus, but i don`t understand much of this deeper stuff like you.

For me its fact there is one Thrustmaster driver - spring setting.

And it´s difference of night and day if i let it @100 or turn to 0.

PS: Maybe there are more options in CM, i don`t know because i am not using CM.

Sorry if i am confusing someone

 

[RasmusP]

Thanks for your explanation Rasmus, but i don`t understand much of this deeper stuff like you.

For me its fact there is one Thrustmaster driver - spring setting.

And it´s difference of night and day if i let it @100 or turn to 0.

PS: Maybe there are more options in CM, i don`t know because i am not using CM.

Sorry if i am confusing someone

The "spring" slider shouldn't do anything. It shouldn't make any difference...
It didn't on my g27, it didn't with the ts-pc I had and it doesn't on my csw 2.5..

For thrustmaster the settings are named differently compared to Logitech.

For Logitech it's "centering spring", for thrustmaster it's "auto center" at the bottom.

Btw that's one thing I went a bit paranoid about haha.
So I've set auto center to "by the wheel", set the slider to 0%, hit okay and then changed it back to "auto (by the game)"

Normally you should have a little bit of centering while in windows and as soon as you go in a game, the re-centering should go off.
But I put it off manually hehe

 

[Lizard Of Bodom]

@kevin - When I was doing my research for T300, I got recommended those settings as "perfect for AC" for that wheel.

------------------------
Thrustmaster Control Panel settings
900* rotation
Overall 100
Constant 100
Periodic 100
Spring 0
Damper 0
Auto Center by game

Assetto Corsa In game settings
900* rotation
FFB settings
Gain 100
Filter 0
Min Force 0
Kerb FX 50
Road FX 4
Slip FX 1
ABS FX 15
Enhanced Understeer checked

Steering settings
Gamma 1.0
Filter 0
Speed sens 0

-------------------------

Cant tell you if those are good or not as to be honest I ended up sending T300 back (REALLY hated the feel of this wheel and pedals and thats from someone who was using G25 for 13 years) and ordering Fanatec CSL durnig Black Friday, but I still have that saved so maybe it will be worth checking.

 

[Kevin Troschinski]

@kevin - When I was doing my research for T300, I got recommended those settings as "perfect for AC" for that wheel.

Hey its racinjoe`s threadt
I am perfectly fine with my settings.
I just wanted to throw in my 5 cents about "spring" settings

Btw. Would not recommend these settings. Damper has to be at 100 and min force should be at least on at low number.
All other ingame things are more or less user dependent

 

[racinjoe013]

Thanks all. Reading through things, I now have another question. If people confuse the spring ffb channel and the center spring and think the spring ffb channel should be 0, does that mean I should have the center spring at 0% instead of 12% by defualt.

 

[RasmusP]

Thanks all. Reading through things, I now have another question. If people confuse the spring ffb channel and the center spring and think the spring ffb channel should be 0, does that mean I should have the center spring at 0% instead of 12% by defualt.

Good thinking haha!
The fun thing is: in theory yes, but in reality as soon a game takes over the ffb, the auto center shuts off.
But I was paranoid about that so I did set it to "by the wheel" and set it to 0%.

 

[racinjoe013]

Thanks. Maybe i'll try it and see how it feels.

Hope I didn't get a defective product. I've been noticing that the right paddle shifter doesn't have the same click feel or audible click sound as the left paddle. It works, but it sure feels and sounds different then the left paddle. Have to keep an eye on it going forward.

Thanks for all the help. I think I know enough now to take it from here so I don't think i'll be as much of a bother going forward.

 

[racinjoe013]

Might as well put this here instead of starting a new thread.

Decided to try the conical brake mod that came with my T3PA pedals, but unsure of where it should be placed. Do you slide it under the brake pedal base or on top of it? Seems hard to line up the screw when placing it under the pedal so I thought maybe that was the wrong place. Lines up easily when I sit it on the brake pedal base, but then there's not much room to engage the brake.

 

[maxilogan]

But i do not crank up the ffb too much so also the fan isn’t active most of the time.

Also, many people suggest that it is a good idea to set the fan always active as per Thrustmaster instructions. That's what I did as well.