Little dilema, what would you do...

[racinjoe013]

When I got back into sim racing awhile back, I blew my budget on the computer so I have been using my old T150 with t3pa pedals while I save for a Fanatec. As luck would have it, the T150 is going south in a hurry and I don't have the funds for the Fanatec yet. I can afford a T300RS now to go with my upgraded pedals, but that probably means the Fanatect is out the window for the forseeable future. Or I could find a used T150 or bargain on another T150 to tide me over and just delay the Fanatec purchase since I will eat a little into the Fanatec savings.

What would you do? For someone who loves sim racing and wastes most of my free time on it but doesn't take it ridiculously serious that i'm in online leagues or competitions, is the Fanatec light years better than a T300RS to make it worth going the used T150 route for the time being. Or would I be perfectly happy with the difference in ffb from upgrading to a T300RS over the T150 i've been using and just forget about the Fanatec until the T300 breaks?

Thanks for any opinions...

 

[Benutzername]

T300 is really good, Fanatec is another step forward. But T300 is really enjoyable and has a good price range.

Also: Never heard of people having troubles with the T300. Heard lots of storys with unreliable Fanatec stuff. Sooo...

 

[Metla]

I'd sit back and put coin aside for a Fanatec system.

 

[Michael Krone]

Id use the cheapest thing you can and save up for fanatec. The only reason you hear about so many failures is because its THAT much more popular and common to use.

 

[Stereo]

I got my T300 on a steep discount as near-new, probably worth it if you can match that but don't go full price.

 

[Benutzername]

Id use the cheapest thing you can and save up for fanatec. The only reason you hear about so many failures is because its THAT much more popular and common to use.

Nah, Im not speaking of something read in the internet, but through experiences through my teammates.
T300 ist reliable and has a nice quality/price ratio - and a nice step-up, too.
Fanatec is a few notches better, but also more expensive and, from what I've heard from my teammates, tends to make quite some trouble.

No decision, we can make for him - @racinjoe013 You know your financial situation the best, its your call to make. Both will be fantastic choices.

 

[suby56]

I had a G25 when they 1st came out. Then a Fanatec Porsche GT3 wheel, which had belt drive, which was a big deal at that time, After 8 years of that, I got a Thrustmaster T300 and a couple wheels. That was 2017.

I would say none of them were light years different. I am Happy with the Thrustmaster. I would buy it again.

 

[Metla]

I've been through 4 Logitechs and then a T300, I considered the difference to be huge when i went to the belt driven Thrustmaster, Competently different and superiour experience.

Then I went to a clubsport 2.5 and a load cell pedal set, and BAM! a whole new level, My regret is that I didn't skip the steps in between and just get the fantaec.

But, If I was still on my T300 and had never used a fanatec system I believe I'd still be pretty happy, I've kept the T300 just in case....

 

[racinjoe013]

You guys are killing me. Every time I think I would be ok with a T300 RS based on the responses, I read a response like the one above. I know what's going to end up happening. I'm going to get a T300 RS and regret it from the second I hit the purchase button thinking I should have held out. It's a thing I do which is why I ended up with a mid range video card instead of the one I really wanted to future proof myself.

 

[demetri]

The tales about Fanatec gear failing are true. I had 918 wheel replaced twice under warranty and CSW 2.5 base replaced once. All started failing within a few weeks after I got them, but once I finally got good replacements from Fanatec they all have been fine since. I guess their QC was not so good back in 2017, no idea how it is now

As for the original poster, if you think you're in this hobby for years, then I'd save up for Fanatec if you meant their Clubsport line up. CSW is the best non-DD wheel you can get and Fanatec rims are very decent (when they work ), they don't feel like some cheap plastic stuff. And CSP V3 are very good pedals for the price (get their brake kit add-on as well).

 

[Chris Down]

You guys are killing me. Every time I think I would be ok with a T300 RS based on the responses, I read a response like the one above. I know what's going to end up happening. I'm going to get a T300 RS and regret it from the second I hit the purchase button thinking I should have held out. It's a thing I do which is why I ended up with a mid range video card instead of the one I really wanted to future proof myself.

I use a T300 and have 10+ world records in AC for the 650s. I write this to say that If your concern is just going fast, the T300 is not going to be the limiting factor.

If your goal is "immersion", I've never really understood what demographic the Fanatec non-DD wheels are for. They have marginally better FFB for a lot more coin, but they are readily outpaced by even the most basic DD wheel.

 

[racinjoe013]

I use a T300 and have 10+ world records in AC for the 650s. I write this to say that If your concern is just going fast, the T300 is not going to be the limiting factor.

If your goal is "immersion", I've never really understood what demographic the Fanatec non-DD wheels are for. They have marginally better FFB for a lot more coin, but they are readily outpaced by even the most basic DD wheel.

I can't say I have a goal for wanting to upgrade my wheel. I know it won't make me faster because I have average driving ability. I guess what i'm hoping for is that it will allow me to feel road bumps a little better than the T150 does. That's my only real problem with the T150. It doesn't pick up smaller forces very well. The only way I can really feel the road bumps is to jack up the road effects percentage, but then the actual effect in the wheel is so harsh and unrealistic.

 

[demetri]

I use a T300 and have 10+ world records in AC for the 650s. I write this to say that If your concern is just going fast, the T300 is not going to be the limiting factor.

If your goal is "immersion", I've never really understood what demographic the Fanatec non-DD wheels are for. They have marginally better FFB for a lot more coin, but they are readily outpaced by even the most basic DD wheel.

Many super-fast drivers I've met were using G25-27 and some even DFGT wheels, so yeah the wheel alone won't make you faster and even entry level is enough to set WRs and win races if you got the talent.
I won't argue much about Fanatec non-DDs vs T300, I just think they have its market segment between Thrustmaster and DD wheels. The cheapest DD1 is more that twice the cost of CSW which is a really decent wheelbase and is strong enough (~8Nm) to give you a real workout if you crank it up to the max. Also, you have a clear upgrade path if you later decide to step up to a DD base. All your rims are gonna be compatible and will just work plug and play style and you can easily sell your old base (they don't depreciate much) or keep it as a backup.

I can't say I have a goal for wanting to upgrade my wheel. I know it won't make me faster because I have average driving ability. I guess what i'm hoping for is that it will allow me to feel road bumps a little better than the T150 does. That's my only real problem with the T150. It doesn't pick up smaller forces very well. The only way I can really feel the road bumps is to jack up the road effects percentage, but then the actual effect in the wheel is so harsh and unrealistic.

I'm not sure why you want to feel the bumps. It is much more important to feel whether the car is understeering or oversteering at the moment. I drive with road and kerb effects set to 0 in AC. Those are artificial effects, not generated by the physics and in my opinion only create a distraction. Slip/ABS effects though also artificial are somewhat useful, but you won't want to crank them up either.

 

[demetri]

Shoot, there's one thing I totally forgot about. If you don't have or plan to get a rig and are going to clamp it to a desk, go with T300. You won't get your money's worth out of CSW without hard-mounting it to something rigid

 

[racer68]

I can't say I have a goal for wanting to upgrade my wheel. I know it won't make me faster because I have average driving ability. I guess what i'm hoping for is that it will allow me to feel road bumps a little better than the T150 does. That's my only real problem with the T150. It doesn't pick up smaller forces very well. The only way I can really feel the road bumps is to jack up the road effects percentage, but then the actual effect in the wheel is so harsh and unrealistic.

*1st = what Chris Down says is very real (re-read it carefully). *2nd = if you liked your T150, you should like/appreciate a T300. *3rd = a great way to impouve your racing is to get a lodcell brake pedal, most of all is to practice more: work on learning your racing lines, get your breaking reference on the nose.

I had a G25 for over 12 years - it died in late 2017 & I to looked at Thrustmaster & Fanatec offers. I selected a Fanatec package = as a bundel CSL Elite wheelbase+wheel+pedals+loadcell brake pedal kit+SQ shifter (shifter was extra) at $1447 cdn vs a Thrustmaster package = TS-PC wheel base& wheel+T3PA-Pro pedals+load cell for T3PA-PRO by Ritmotech/Florida USA+TH8A at $1465 cdn. I took Fanatec because it had more metal parts ... but my G25 was all plastic & I enjoyed it for many a years !!!
One month after I got my CSL, the wheel base failed, I had to send it back for warranty repair but I consider I received a good service from Fanatec - I was pleased by their response.

When you say you are saving for Fanatec, are you talking weeks, months, years ?? + you don't say where you live - cost differ depending on where you reside. Determine what you want to achieve simracing wise, determine a budget, get something within your means & enjoy your hobby. Their is always something better outhere (sim gear or pc) so get use to it.

I to don't race on line ( for now) & do spend a lot of time simracing. My FFB is tremendous in RF2 (you say you want to feel bumps !!) vs AC/ACC but RF2 as a lot of deficiencies vs AC/ACC. With my loadcell brake I feel I have improuved my results.

reference: go visit the following sites: SimRacing604, Random Call Sing, SRG (Sim Racing Garage: he analyses many, many racing gears), Chris Haye - Aries from Kunos(AC/ACC) - Driver 61 = they all will provide you with very valuable information on how to improve your racing.

hope this can help - good racing

 

[racinjoe013]

I'm not sure why you want to feel the bumps. It is much more important to feel whether the car is understeering or oversteering at the moment. I drive with road and kerb effects set to 0 in AC. Those are artificial effects, not generated by the physics and in my opinion only create a distraction. Slip/ABS effects though also artificial are somewhat useful, but you won't want to crank them up either.

Because I feel disconnected from the game when I'm driving a track and can see my front end bouncing all over the place, but I don't feel it in my hands. I already have the slip\abs tuned so I can feel that aspect of ffb. Now i'm just hoping to get some level of road effect that feels right.

 

[Kevin Troschinski]

I'm not sure why you want to feel the bumps. It is much more important to feel whether the car is understeering or oversteering at the moment. I drive with road and kerb effects set to 0 in AC. Those are artificial effects, not generated by the physics and in my opinion only create a distraction. Slip/ABS effects though also artificial are somewhat useful, but you won't want to crank them up either.

A Bit off topic but i want add something here.
There are some serious mods there like for example DRM or GT Legends. in which pdf they clearly advice to use relatively high values @Kerbs slip road and abs. At least with a t300

I for myself do not like that high values but 0 settings either. Something in between is the right choice for my t300

Back to topic: I you like subtile light but still informative ffb, and don’t want spent too much money - the t300 Ferrari wheel and t-lcm pedals are a very good combo.

Btw. Since 3 years never had any topics with thrustmaster stuff.
But i do not crank up the ffb too much so also the fan isn’t active most of the time.

 

[boomRoasted]

Not sure you've made a decision @racinjoe013 but at any rate here's my '2 cents'

After some review, I purchased the Thrustmaster TX Ferrari 458 and felt that this was a good purchase despite the inflated price at the time due to the pandemic. I've not been at this for very long but I don't think I'm missing out on much compared to the belt-driven Fanatec. I'm not sure what your goal is but judging from your first post I assume a DD is not being considered. If this is the case I think the T300 will be all you need and have no regrets.

The only negative thing I can say about the Thrustmaster system (so far) is the lack of third-party rims. I want that extra step of immersion and I think Fanatec has made this really easy for their customers. If this is a big thing for you and you'd like to have multiple rim options, Fanatec is the clear winner.

As far as FFB is concerned, I highly recommend this thread. I'm currently using @RasmusP 's settings (+/- )a couple of points. With this setup, I can feel every bump on Zandvoort and undulation at the Nordschleife.

Hope this was helpful and I hope you're able to get a new wheel before the T150 bites the dust.

 

[RasmusP]

Hi,
did you make a decision yet?

When you say saving up for fanatec. Does this mean csw 2.5 + v3 pedals?
Cause of you meant csl wheelbase + csl pedals then please buy thrustmaster!

For thrustmaster:
The Ts-PC is just as good, probably better and more reliable than the csl wheelbase.

T300 is good too. Just too loud fans for my liking (it's recommended to put them to always full on to not get overheating ffb fading. But maybe that's not needed anymore).

The t150.. Urghs.. How far can you throw the wheel with ffb off? Half an inch?
I drove it once at a store and really didn't like it.. Sorry.

So depending on your budget I would do:

- buy a ts-pc and keep your pedals. Upgrade them later to the t-lcm

- buy a T300 with the cheapest pedals and keep your pedals. Upgrade them later to the t-lcm.

I personally just don't like the csl series from fanatec. They are bad from an engineering point of view:

- Csl load cell pedal have a bad design. They don't measure the pressure on the rod/axis you're compressing but instead they measure how much the pedal arm is bending between the pedal face where you're pressing over the rod/axis.
This means your input varies massively if you change the position of your foot. The leverage changes quite a lot and the pedal arm bending changes accordingly.

The v3 pedals have the load cell at the end of the rod/axis. I have them now, so much better.. Much more consistent!

But I'm changing my foot position quite a lot. Only office chair, no rig.

- csl wheelbase:
The sensor for the wheel position is not really dust-proof and it's just a little disk with lots of holes in it. Behind sits a sensor like your mouse has at the bottom.
At start up it will calibrate to know how many holes to each side there are.

It works well until the sensor or the wheel have some dust on them. Then you'll get weird things happening like your wheel slightly de-centering over the distance of a race, stepping ffb because the position read out is lost for a moment etc etc.


The clubs port series is completely different story! You can have issues with them too, sure. But you can replace every single bit of it. All metal, good quality overall.
The csw 2.5 in comparison to this optical disk with holes of the csl has 2 hall sensors.
One at the wheel shaft and one at the motor.
Both are constantly measured and synced so the wheel is always very accurate!

Ts-pc racer works the same btw, great wheel! (sadly mine had coil whine so I sent it back and got the csw 2.5).

Hope that helps a bit

And never get a Logitech wheel! Coming from your belt driven wheel, you would hate the clunky deadzone in the center!

 

[racinjoe013]

Wanted to pop in and say thanks for all the input.

I ended up ordering a T300. While a Fanatec was what I wanted, the fact that my T150 broke before I could afford one meant I needed something now. Couldn't justify taking $200 from my Fanatec budget to get another T150 to tide me over when based on what was said here, the T300 would suit my needs well enough. Like I said in my original post, while I love racing sims I don't take it seriously or compete in competitions and I don't think any wheel was going to make me a better driver. All I really wanted was an upgrade from my T150 and I think the T300 will serve that well enough.

Thanks again or all the help and feedback...