PC1 Let's give SMS a little credit here

[Damage Inc]

pCARS is a good sim, with flaws admittedly (which are not hidden and are discussed all over the internet), but is more or less 100% feature complete unlike other recent releases such as AC, R3 and I believe RF2 was not feature complete when released (although stand to be corrected). Xbone flaws are a mystery to all WMD members as we had nothing to do with that version at all. I believe SMS should get some credit for being a small team and releasing a complex game across 3 platforms (unlike the others mentioned) and as I say more or less feature complete.

It's not to everyone's personal tastes but tell me what is?

 

[William Wester]

How can I pat them on the back for a job well done when 50% of the time, I click start to start a race and it crashes? FFB on an lot of cars is still nothing to write home about, horrendous frame rate drops, too many online issues to mention.
They assured us that the game was 99.9% complete when they last moved the release date back, this was an out and out lie.
I just want to purchase a game that the dev's claim to be finished and for it to work properly, surely that's not too much to ask.
PC has incredible potential but as yet, falls far far short of a complete game.

But I think this is the point of this thread. There seems to be an abundance of your type of posts, and I'm not disagreeing with you because this is your experience - the key here is "your" experience.
1) "50% of the time, I click start to start a race and it crashes"
pCARS has never crashed for me. I'm not a mega hour player though.
2) FFB on an lot of cars is still nothing to write home about.
Of course this is completely personal, but I think the FFB is VERY good (TX on PC), I'm comparing to all the other sims (I own them all).
3) "horrendous frame rate drops"
No problems at all here - GTX 980 at 3440x1440.
4) "too many online issues to mention"
I only tried online a couple times so I can't comment.

I'm not trying to single you out by quoting your post, it was just for reference of my comments. Again, it "seems" that pCARS is getting a somewhat harsh bad rap before they are given some time to correct the bugs. Granted, releasing with these bugs will undoubtedly cause "some" gamer noise, how much noise is the question.
I must me one of the few lucky ones as I don't experience any game-breaking issues. Hopefully SMS will be able to weather the storm otherwise pCARS 2 may not happen.

 

[Damage Inc]

GSCE doesn't have a dedicated forum. So Reiza devs use Steam and RD to support users with technical problems, to announce new things, to post guides on how to improve controller, visuals, etc. And in general, a place for the gsce community to discuss about the game they play.

All I know is from the official Reiza website I link HERE. That is an undeniable connection that no other game has with RD I believe. And sometimes giving a game a free area to use actually shows MORE of a connection than being paid IMO.

You can have that impression as your opinion, I respect that and you are fully entitled to also post it here.

As you are avoiding answering my questions: what's my or RD's agenda and why does it stink?

Personally I believe that there is a clear Anti SMS and pCARS agenda, Things I read here back up my assumption in my opinion. It's ONLY my opinion.

Then don't say things like these:

Because in general there's nothing unique in pcars they haven't done with their previous games.

SETA tyre model is unique to SMS, not sure if the technicalities of it are unique to sims. Dynamic weather is unique in how it is implemented IMO. It's got one very unique thing though it's generating hate from a lot of areas....PC hardcore sim people, GT people, Drive Club people and Forza people...now THAT's unique! LOL

@Damage Inc
I am not sure why you are defending SMS or pCars in such a way. No one is hating on it, they are just giving their opinions and feedback. I can assure you, many of the posters in this thread can be found daily in our pCars Club Race section, and enjoy every second of it (Unless some bugs make us unable to race).

The reason people have critisism on a developer and a game usually means they have a passion for the game and the genre in general. We just want these things fixed, so we can enjoy this game the way it was meant to be.

So let's try to burry the hachet and let's get along. There is no need for personal attacks.

Frank, that's what I was trying to do with this thread. I stated it's not perfect, I stated SMS should get some respect for what they have achieved.....and this is what happened more grief and nastiness. It IS clearly hatred, no other word for it I'm afraid. And to be honest I'm not sure why I'm doing this. I did the same for Shadow of Mordor recently, I did the same for Aliens:Colonial Marines....I defend things I personally like. Do the devs of Shadow of Mordor pay me? Nope, did Gearbox/Sega pay me to defend A:CM? Nope. I do what I do. I have a strong sense of fair play and address it when I don't see fair play.

How can I pat them on the back for a job well done when 50% of the time, I click start to start a race and it crashes? FFB on an lot of cars is still nothing to write home about, horrendous frame rate drops, too many online issues to mention.
They assured us that the game was 99.9% complete when they last moved the release date back, this was an out and out lie.
I just want to purchase a game that the dev's claim to be finished and for it to work properly, surely that's not too much to ask.
PC has incredible potential but as yet, falls far far short of a complete game.

Many people are not experiencing the same issues, FFB is PERSONAL preference, I get no frame rate drops, but again my system and setup will be different to yours. I don't recall any official statement mentioning of 99.9% but then again I'm not following every little detail of the game. Sorry to hear you expereince is not good, many are getting a good experience.

And that's the problem with the written word on internet forums!. The context and delivery is open to interpretation by the reader.

You started a thread giving your opinion on the lack of 'respect' people are showing SMS. There was enough emotion there to compel you to start this thread. Reading between the lines that's how I interpreted it. And for the record i am calm and feel my dignity is still intact!

Anyway, back to playing pCars for me. Hope to see you on track someday for a good race.

Good point, there's maybe a lot of things lost in translation so to speak. And that goes both ways clearly. Wouldn't be an issue if I saw a little bit fairer moderation. Keep the criticisms but adjust the wording and I'll respect the site's impartiality.

But sadly I keep reading stuff that is not on. And I stress it's not the actually criticism, it's the wording of said criticism. And that's been the main issue for me.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

@Damage Inc you are still not spreading facts but pure lies about this website. On other forums you would now have been permabanned for being a disruptive member btw, yet we still allow you to post here (do we get a respect thread too now?).

We are giving Reiza free area? We are giving all games a free area here so what are you talking about?

But I know your agenda Bram..and it stinks IMO.

You say you know my agenda but now you are are rephrasing by cleverly adding "i believe". You have no clue about our agenda as there is none. Everybody is free to express their views on any game on these forums. If that's an agenda it's a pretty open one.

That said, I am getting a bit tired that some people think I should be less vocal because I am an admin as this site. Foremost I am a total motorsport addict with an equal passion for simracing. As you can see in the other thread I purchase every sim and racing game out there and add them to my 25+ year old collection of racing titles. And similar to other paying customers I have an opinion as well and I am not afraid or intimidated to express it when I feel the need to. We are an independent website and therefor we have no game company dictating our ...here it comes.... agenda.

As long as false advertising and dubious marketing messages are coming with this and other games you'll see me replying in these kind of threads with facts that state the opposite. So be prepared I am here for the long run whether you like it or not.

Wouldn't be an issue if I saw a little bit fairer moderation.

If you or any other user thinks that forum rules are breached it's your task to report such posts to our moderation team where they will be judged and if needed action will be taking. However to avoid further escalation as in 2012 submit verifiable proof that posts here are not stating the truth.

With reported pcars posts they are mainly reported out of frustrations with users or opinions and we aren't going to moderate opinions unless we get cold hard facts that state such posts are incorrect, which so far hardly happens.

 

[Radu Oros]

@Damage Inc Why makes you think there is hatred and anti-sms-pcars agenda? Does it also make you think there was over hype, exaggerated advertising about the quality of pcars from both sms and the wmd members in many discussion websites while it was closed to the public, therefore they could say anything about the game? What happened is that the game came out of the closed doors and was available for the public to test it on their own, away from all that over hype and carefully written comments by wmd members. That's what happened.
The public didn't unite in plotting against sms-pcars, unlike sms-wmd members who plotted to make everyone believe this was the mana from the heavens, therefore trying to recover their investments and make profit; instead of using the game's quality to make it a financial success, they used over hype and fallacies while pcars was restricted to the general public. Then after the game release, it was basically people's revolution against all the intentional exaggerated 'marketing' that happened from sms and wmd members.

 

[Frank]

Frank, that's what I was trying to do with this thread. I stated it's not perfect, I stated SMS should get some respect for what they have achieved.....and this is what happened more grief and nastiness. It IS clearly hatred, no other word for it I'm afraid. And to be honest I'm not sure why I'm doing this. I did the same for Shadow of Mordor recently, I did the same for Aliens:Colonial Marines....I defend things I personally like. Do the devs of Shadow of Mordor pay me? Nope, did Gearbox/Sega pay me to defend A:CM? Nope. I do what I do. I have a strong sense of fair play and address it when I don't see fair play.

@Damage Inc.
You completely disregarded anything I said after the first alinea sadly enough.

 

[Chris Harris]

Here’s the crux of the issue for me, and I think for a lot of others here too. A lot the investors (and by association, SMS themselves) massively over-sold the game and we now feel they have under-delivered.

It’s all about managing expectations, as soon as the investors (some of whom were only in it for potential profit) started leading people to believe this was going to change the landscape for Sim racing, we were always likely to be disappointed in the final product. I believe what you’re seeing here is not necessarily hate of the product itself but the disappointment of being led to believe we were going to get something more. This I suppose is the negative side of the Investor style development process. Without NDA’s in place they are free to spout whatever they want to hype the product. Which a lot of them duly did for the best part of 3 years in an effort to maximise their profits.

While I admire SMS for bringing the first really big game to be “Crowd funded” so to speak, you have to take the good and bad that comes with that.

 

[Damage Inc]

@Damage Inc you are still not spreading facts but pure lies about this website. On other forums you would now have been permabanned for being a disruptive member btw, yet we still allow you to post here (do we get a respect thread too now?).

We are giving Reiza free area? We are giving all games a free area here so what are you talking about?



You say you know my agenda but now you are are rephrasing by cleverly adding "i believe". You have no clue about our agenda as there is none. Everybody is free to express their views on any game on these forums. If that's an agenda it's a pretty open one.

That said, I am getting a bit tired that some people think I should be less vocal because I am an admin as this site. Foremost I am a total motorsport addict with an equal passion for simracing. As you can see in the other thread I purchase every sim and racing game out there and add them to my 25+ year old collection of racing titles. And similar to other paying customers I have an opinion as well and I am not afraid or intimidated to express it when I feel the need to. We are an independent website and therefor we have no game company dictating our ...here it comes.... agenda.

As long as false advertising and dubious marketing messages are coming with this and other games you'll see me replying in these kind of threads with facts that state the opposite. So be prepared I am here for the long run whether you like it or not.


If you or any other user thinks that forum rules are breached it's your task to report such posts to our moderation team where they will be judged and if needed action will be taking. However to avoid further escalation as in 2012 submit verifiable proof that posts here are not stating the truth.

With reported pcars posts they are mainly reported out of frustrations with users or opinions and we aren't going to moderate opinions unless we get cold hard facts that state such posts are incorrect, which so far hardly happens.

You want proof...you can't handle the proof (couldn't resist a twist on that film quote!) well take a butchers here and tell me do any other devs have a link to your site on their support page on their OFFICIAL page? It may be completely legit, but when I see some of the things here and then that.....I came to a conclusion. Fair enough if Reiza were the only ones to approach you on the subject of a support forum, but it does strike me as being a tad dodgy with regards to "impartiality".




So I'm not talking about giving all games a free area, I have NEVER been talking about that...do you understand where I am coming from now?

And also it's NOT a lie, there it is in a nice little Jpg for all to see, so am not lying at all. All I am guilty of is coming to a conclusion, that conclusion may or may not be incorrect. Others things IMO back up my conclusion. Do you really think Ian Bell would risk the PR **** storm over the "legal" thing if there was NOTHING out of order with some of the comments on this site? You may have a low opinion of Ian, but he's not stupid.

Personally I have never said you should be less vocal Bram, but I do NOT see impartiality in you. Not one jot. Yes I was harsh with the "agenda" terminology, but from my point of view that's what it looks like.

You bang on about how peoples negative opinions of pCARS should be defended, yet my negative opinion of you and this site should be attacked? Do you see the hypocrisy there?

False marketting, show me exactly where pCARS marketting was any worse than EVERY other game out there. The ONLY difference is the WMD members element and like EVERY other game fanboys exist and I would think that a person with a hint of common sense would be able to pick out the measured messages coming out from WMD and those that were rabid fanboys. And heads up SMS had NO control over the fanboys, just like every other dev/game.

Bram, my argument has all along been about "fairness" and I just do not see it here.

My conclusions may be incorrect, but like I say your behaviour time and time again has just backed up my conclusion. And it is only MY conclusion.

And I'm pretty certain I havn't been banned because it would also show COLLOSAL hypocrisy for you to allow people to post here moaning about being banned from another forum and all your freedom of speech, soap box, chest thumping. Because if they broke the forum rules when they got banned then those bans were completely justified yet you allow them to vent their toxic opinions.

 

[Damage Inc]

@Damage Inc.
You completely disregarded anything I said after the first alinea sadly enough.

No I didn't frank, WMD members have the same passion yet are slagged off here. Everyone over looks the flaws in their preferred game/music/film/tv/etc. pCARS get's singled out, this thread was a test of RD to see if a reasonable (and tell me if my post wasn't reasonable) could avoid the usual RD replies and RD failed.

 

[Damage Inc]

@Damage Inc Why makes you think there is hatred and anti-sms-pcars agenda? Does it also make you think there was over hype, exaggerated advertising about the quality of pcars from both sms and the wmd members in many discussion websites while it was closed to the public, therefore they could say anything about the game? What happened is that the game came out of the closed doors and was available for the public to test it on their own, away from all that over hype and carefully written comments by wmd members. That's what happened.
The public didn't unite in plotting against sms-pcars, unlike sms-wmd members who plotted to make everyone believe this was the mana from the heavens, therefore trying to recover their investments and make profit; instead of using the game's quality to make it a financial success, they used over hype and fallacies while pcars was restricted to the general public. Then after the game release, it was basically people's revolution against all the intentional exaggerated 'marketing' that happened from sms and wmd members.

Um is clear in this post and many others around the net that there is hatred!

Over hype, exaggerated advertising....pretty much common to almost every product ever paid in the history of mankind no? Yet you single out SMS/WMD and pCARS. Why?

Do you honestly think EVERY single WMD member was a 100% fanboy? LOL

And I didn't say the public united in plotting against pCARS, all I say is it has united a group of people from disparate camps. And then you say you think SMS and WMD memebrs plotted anything..LOL once again.

In fact here's a thing...now listen VERY carefully. Usually when a game is developed it's in TOTAL secrecy....there is NO public access to the games development whatsoever. pCARS was different to that yet you laughably think the opposite. For real? pCARS had one of the most open developments of any game ever. There were countless people on the forums who were not fanboys and could tell the world (and they did), countless were suportive of the game at first then got disenchanted and told the world why. How on earth you come to your conclusion about pCARS development is utterly beyond comprehension IMO.

I mean there s thread HERE about the test builds....this forum is impartial to SMS no? So how exactly does that fit into your logic?

 

[David Ignjatovic]

Stop being so precious damage. ...pcars was supposed to be a sim, yet it's not only shift3, it's loaded with problems.

 

[Damage Inc]

Here’s the crux of the issue for me, and I think for a lot of others here too. A lot the investors (and by association, SMS themselves) massively over-sold the game and we now feel they have under-delivered.

It’s all about managing expectations, as soon as the investors (some of whom were only in it for potential profit) started leading people to believe this was going to change the landscape for Sim racing, we were always likely to be disappointed in the final product. I believe what you’re seeing here is not necessarily hate of the product itself but the disappointment of being led to believe we were going to get something more. This I suppose is the negative side of the Investor style development process. Without NDA’s in place they are free to spout whatever they want to hype the product. Which a lot of them duly did for the best part of 3 years in an effort to maximise their profits.

While I admire SMS for bringing the first really big game to be “Crowd funded” so to speak, you have to take the good and bad that comes with that.

Reasonable post I wish more were like this.

I agree, quite a few WMD people and one in particular oversold the game. But like I say that's VERY common in almost every entertainment industry, I question why SMS/WMD/pCARS is singled out for particular vitriol.

No I am seeing a lot of hate, it's in posts that are unreasonable and unfair and a LOT of such posts are here in RD.

I agree that the crowd funding process has these flaws, I'm seeing VERY similar arguments and comments about Elite dangerous, many from people who are in SC and no mans sky camps. Both pCARS and Elite dangerous were released with promised things missing, but more or less feature complete once the devs locked down what features would make it in the first release.

I do take the good and bad, I've never been anything but realistic over my views about the game, yet just because I tackle some comments here (like I do elsewhere) I'm certain many here have lumped me in with the fanboys. All I've done is tackle overly negative, downright stupid and downright wrong comments.

 

[Frank]

We don't single out project cars. Just look around on the forum, all games have had their own form of criticism, not because we hate the games or developers but because of the potential games show. Reiza, codemasters, kunos, ISI, Sector 3, simbin, they all have had our feedback and opinions. We have even sent open letters.

We don't single out any game we love and want to be even better.

 

[Damage Inc]

Stop being so precious damage. ...pcars was supposed to be a sim, yet it's not only shift3, it's loaded with problems.

I was wondering when the forum would be graced with the eloquence of your mind David.

And there in a nutshell is the issue, it's clearly NOT shift 3, anyone with half a brain can see from the development of the game that it is not.

 

[Damage Inc]

We don't single out project cars. Just look around on the forum, all games have had their own form of criticism, not because we hate the games or developers but because of the potential games show. Reiza, codemasters, kunos, ISI, Sector 3, simbin, they all have had our feedback and opinions. We have even sent open letters.

We don't single out any game we love and want to be even better.

Some people clearly do Frank.

 

[David Ignjatovic]

I was wondering when the forum would be graced with the eloquence of your mind David.

And there in a nutshell is the issue, it's clearly NOT shift 3, anyone with half a brain can see from the development of the game that it is not.

Theres possibly as many as 40%+ at this forum who think it might be simcade, virtually no one at ISI forums, and many, many others across the www that consider it simcade....so don't try and paint me as a lone gunmen type of crazy.

 

[bmanic]

Stop being so precious damage. ...pcars was supposed to be a sim, yet it's not only shift3, it's loaded with problems.

You just keep on going and going and going.. duracell?

It is a sim. It is one of the better sims. Objectively judged, it's tire model is one of the most advanced ever created.

.. but yeah, we ALL know your agenda and constant troll voice. Why are you still hanging around the pCars forums? Seriously. It's getting old.

 

[bmanic]

Theres possibly as many as 40%+ at this forum who think it might be simcade, virtually no one at ISI forums, and many, many others across the www that consider it simcade....so don't try and paint me as a lone gunmen type of crazy.

Complete BS. Go away troll. Go away.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

@David Ignjatovic if you don't even have the game, what are you talking about then?

Don't parrot other people, draw your own conclusions.

 

[robbynat0r]

As I have already said before - it might give you the impression that it is easy to drive at the beginning, maybe even easier than other SIMs. But mastering this game is a hell of a challenge.

And quoting opinions of others and selling it as an own opinion - c'mon, buy the game (or maybe visit a friend of yours who obtains it) and (un)satisfy yourself!

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

False marketting, show me exactly where pCARS marketting was any worse than EVERY other game out there.

I didn't say false marketing, i wrote false advertising. If you want to play the show me the examples game beware that there is four years of content on the web from official sources. This is the catch I fell for (bought two copies because of it, run daily club events and announced a league that is not going to happen because of the ongoing issues.):

Thanks to a partnership with the Automobile Club de l’Ouest, Project CARS will be the first racing game to properly simulate all the aspects that make the Le Mans 24 Hours one of the most challenging racing events in the world, allowing players to run the event in real-time, facing a full grid of 55 opponents on track. (we brought the press release here)

As you know my background was in real-time gaming and PCARS doesn't offer anything real-time other than real-time weather.

Properly simulate ALL the aspects of Le Mans 24 Hours? The most important aspect of this race of races is that you drive one car for 24 hours with a team of three drivers each racing for 8 hours. Now tell me how am I going to simulate the 24H next month racing with two of my RPM teammates, when there is no working driver swap feature?

Before you are defending it again that this wasn't meant to be an online feature with driver swaps, do the 24 Hours offline then with AI? How am I going to race the 24H with a full field of 55 opponents if there isn't even a class selection allowing me to. Or do the real drivers also race the 24H only against prototypes, or a field of BAC Monos and Ford Focus RS cars?

Promised were the BMW 1999 V12 LMR prototype, 2002 Audi R8, 2014 Audi R18 e-tron quattro. Tell me, where can I select these cars?

The 24 Hours of Le Mans was brought as a massive feature for this game but apart from the amazing track and a small amount of the real cars nothing properly simulates the official 24 Hours of Le Mans.

Its false advertising and cheeky marketing at it's best.