Is VR dead?

[RobertR1]

I'm not sure what supersampling you were running but if we have the same eyes, there's no way distance clarity is better on the OD+ than the 5k+ The blur filter to remove the SDE on the OD+ pretty much guarantees that. There's no free lunch thus the trade off for SDE is the clarity.

I do another side by side this weekend since it's been a while.

 

[o Tiger Feet o]

but if we have the same eyes

Im pretty sure we dont .

I know what you mean and it wasnt expected. I tried various combinations of SS in Steam and Pitool rendering. I have a frog face with an IPD of 68... That shouldn't make a difference, but who knows. I cant think of what else to try TBH.

 

[RobertR1]

Did you go into the vrsetting.ini and bump up the max resolution for steamvr? basically increasing the SS won't go past this number unless you change it manually.

 

[o Tiger Feet o]

Did you go into the vrsetting.ini and bump up the max resolution for steamvr? basically increasing the SS won't go past this number unless you change it manually.

No, but that sounds interesting. I just used the manual override slider in steam VR, it let me go up to crazy
numbers though.

 

[RobertR1]

No, but that sounds interesting. I just used the manual override slider in steam VR, it let me go up to crazy
numbers though.

https://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/how-to-...olution-of-4096px-imposed-by-steamvr/16067/97

Read through that. I run 140% SS with PiTools @ 1.0. Looks clean.

 

[dedraro]

I have a frog face with an IPD of 68...

I have 66, and I don't think 68 is such an extreme value, whereas the average value is 64 for rift S and 63 for HP Reverb, perhaps we can consider 75 a frog face

 

[HugoB]

Isn’t screen door effect unrelated to resolution? Isn’t that why the PSVR could have such good SDE, despite having such a low resolution? I always thought it was about seeing the empty space between the pixels. Which can’t be influenced by SS right? On my current Rift CV1 I run SS 2.0 and the SDE is as bad as it is at SS 1.0. I do notice more clarity in the distance, the trees are more defined etc. at higher SS. But this is about resolution and aliasing, isn’t it? Not about the empty space between the pixels, which can’t be changed because it is a physical design of the HMD..

 

[Dan Costa]

correct

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Did you go into the vrsetting.ini and bump up the max resolution for steamvr? basically increasing the SS won't go past this number unless you change it manually.

You don"t need to do that anymore, it's defaulted to 2.0 already. Just don't update to Windows 1903 that broke that feature, and don"t exceed SS of 210% (the sharpest)

Edit: This is for WMR driver settings, not Pimax.

 

[EsxPaul]

@o Tiger Feet o

Thanks for posting your thoughts. Very informative for me.

I was entertaining the Pimax but it's dropped down my list a touch. It's looking more and more like the Reverb for me, just gonna hold out for a few more hands on, real world reviews before I bite.

 

[Bjarne Hansen]

So now we are down to conspiracy theories on why we don't have foveated rendering already?

Think about that for a minute....

NVidia's stock is way down because of how poorly their RTX cards were recieved. If they had a way to make their cards the best thing since sliced bread, do you really think that they would decide that wasn't in their best interest?

This is just hilarious to me. First we are thinking it doesn't look like there is any real activity in VR, then we amazingly see a huge amount of activity which is great!

But the unrealistic expectations are just crazy.

Reality Check! These are not even remotely in the smart phone market that gets billions in R&D. It is truly amazing we have so much going on right now.

So the SteamVR ecosystem will continue with base stations for good reasons for the foreseeable future and no foveated rendering is not soup yet. It's still it early stages of development. It's not even the huge jump in performance we were hoping for. So unless it becomes both cheaper AND more efficient, it won't benefit us much.

BTW, I also want a variety of headsets with different priorities to become popular to keep competition alive. I think we all know what we want in the end, but we have very different ideas about what should come first on the way to that perfect headset.

There are no conspiracy talk just that the large cooperation are not taking focusing on doing what is best for the consumer but what is best for the shareholders!
Nothing wrong with that just do not expect any real jump in improvement from Nvidia, MS nor Valve.
Unless they get competition!

Nvidia stock is not down due to RTX sales. It is down due to the competition in the AI chip market.
Gpu sales was good doing the mining boom but it counts for very little compared to the AI market and data centers.
Those drops in AI chip sales might be the only reason we got those unused Tensor cores on out RTX Gpu's as rumors are they are out dated AI chips! Have not read any facts about this!

About unrealistic exception! August 2016 Nvidia released a demo with different versions of Foveated rending! Promises of VR-Sli. Google are you friend. Nothing early stages about Fove!
Then when the VR-Sli ether didn't work or was a very bad idea sales vise the next hyped thing was Single-pass stereo rending , Now Variable shading rate.
All talk about including that in the drivers has stopped and you now have to pledge support to Nvidia and lock out Intel and AMD Gpus and use Nvidia VRWorks.
Judging by the demos out there is isn't that working that well "Funhouse on Steam"

Several individuals are doing in their spare time what those large companies are not able to, or willing to do.

VorpX. Guess Rolf by now are doing it full time. But he is providing VR for several 100's of games that was not made for VR.
Lots of other smart people have made VR mods for specific games.

Crosier of Reshade frame has made a unsupported OpenVR.dll that adds VR support to lots of normal Dx11 games. Sure it got bugs and not updated but none the less he proved it could be done.

DgVoodoo. Dege has single handed in his spare time providing support for older Dx games by making a wrapper that upgrades older Dx versions up to dx9 to Dx11 and even have them run on DX10.1 hardware.
Allowing all those old games to run on Win 7, 8 and 10.

WINE now runs more windows apps than Win 10 and after the Vulcan additions a small number of games are even out preforming Windows 10 in fps.

Now you can clam those individuals are way smarter than the those mega corporations programmers? I for one think those same companies are enjoying extensive copyrights protection and are not paying us back with good consumer service.

I am sure Lighthouse tracking will continue as it is Valve tech but it looks like even HTC Vive will drop it in the upcoming Cosmos headset.
But if you think it is better for you, nobody disagrees with that! Just disagrees with you constant and falsely clams that inside out headset tracking isn't as good for sim games as the lighthouses!

Sorry about the rant as it has nothing to do with if VR is dead

 

[RCHeliguy]

You were right Andrew, that was too much

 

[Deleted member 197115]

 

[Steve D]

So I got my PImax 5K+ from Amazon: (I currently own an Odyssey+ and had a Rift before that)

First impressions: Setup really easy even without controllers and lighthouses. I got it running quite nicely on ACC..... (and AC)

But and its a big BUT, the screen door... I dont think I can go back to that. I wasnt expecting SDE to be noticeable .... And ive got to say for me personally the extra FOV didnt really add much in the 2 sims ive so far tried. (even on large setting).. Yes I would rather have more FOV than not, but there was no wow factor for me. Maybe I move my head more than the average person so the added FOV is of no real benefit - I dont know. You see thats the thing Ive always thought... all you need to do is move your head abit to 'see more'.... Personal taste and very subjective. But I was expected a greater sense of speed and I just didnt get that.

The image to my taste is not as good as the O+. (SDE and Colours) So much so, I finished the night back on the O+ and much prefer it.

Im going to do more testing and tweaking but my honest first impressions are, I dont think its for me. Im glad Ive got it to see it with my own eyes, but now I know, If im going to swap, it will almost certainly be for the Reverb. Dont get me wrong, its a nice unit (although it does feel cheap in your hands) and if you had nothing else you would love it im sure.... but screen door - I can see further at tracks like Spa with my Odyssey+...

One thing I did learn though... Obviously the Pimax has no earphones so I used my sennheisers - ive not used them in quite a while. Ive always used the O+ headphones. WOW! Ive been missing out in the sound department. Thats something I need to address.

I see next to no SDE with my 5k+ and I find clear draw distances to be a one of the greatest benefits of the Pimax along with increased FOV. (Personal settings are Normal FOV @ 72hz without smart smoothing)

Is it possible that we are individually susceptible to SDE in different ways or that the headsets themselves vary in terms of quality of display?

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Vive Cosmos is alive, coming Q3.

Just a little refreshment of what it is

 

[RCHeliguy]

I still think HTC is an also ran.

They were the first complete system out the door, but past that I don't think they have much going for them.

Frankly I feel that Valve took matters into their own hands after Vive dropped the ball.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Combo of PC and phone tethered device in one is quite interesting.
Hope they went for higher than Vive Pro (Quest) resolution, but that's highly unlikely.
Oculus lost PC users by not providing tethered option on Quest and Rift S just doesn't cut.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Oculus went main stream and left the enthusiast market wide open.

The top end Vive equipment was supposed to be enthusiast level, but it had too many chinks in the armor.

I've yet to see them do anything that matters.

 

[magzire]

Yep VR dead

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Oculus went main stream and left the enthusiast market wide open.

The top end Vive equipment was supposed to be enthusiast level, but it had too many chinks in the armor.

I've yet to see them do anything that matters.

First room scale headset, 50% of PC VR users, first higher res gen and a half HMD, first mass produced HMD with eye tracking, wireless link...

And finally Cosmos with HMD cameras that can actually be used for tracking and not just as some cosmetic ornaments. I know, blasphemy.