Is VR dead?

[Turk]

Should i buy Virtualdesktop wired app on oculus store and use that to launch games from steam not the oculus virtual desktop. Probably something simple I've missed.

Something similar happened to me, it turned out I needed to download a windows app for steam to get the G2 working. I also needed to make sure steam VR was running. I don't remember there being an oculus app for steam though. Maybe just make sure steam VR is running before you try to run the game.

 

[RobertR1]

Still can't get over how good driving AC in the G2 is. Simply what I wanted VR to be when I first put on a unit. Very happy here (hope it stays that way!)

 

[anton_Chez]

G1 and G2 are awesome for sim racing. Very lucky to have access to such high resolution screens that are actually usable in VR performance wise. I wonder what the next step is? I thought it was G2 as a G1 owner but it didn't turn out that way for me unfortunately. Still both great looking headsets with good options to get the most out of them depending on what you can tolerate.

 

[RobertR1]

G1 and G2 are awesome for sim racing. Very lucky to have access to such high resolution screens that are actually usable in VR performance wise. I wonder what the next step is? I thought it was G2 as a G1 owner but it didn't turn out that way for me unfortunately. Still both great looking headsets with good options to get the most out of them depending on what you can tolerate.

It's software and rendering techniques that need to involve next. It'd be nice to not need top shelf PC hardware to adequately drive these units.

Then we can focus on more fov and higher resolutions.

 

[blekenbleu]

Website for DecaGear "4K SteamVR Headset"
They really want your $10 pre order waitlist deposit
On YouTube

 

[bluepeter]

Website for DecaGear "4K SteamVR Headset"
They really want your $10 pre order waitlist deposit
On YouTube

Yes, I punted them $10, not sure if I was a fool to do it - but there you go....

 

[blekenbleu]

Yes, I punted them $10, not sure if I was a fool to do it - but there you go

I'm tempted; 3080Ti may become available around then,
and a SteamVR-native HMD with better controllers
and equal resolution to HP Reverb would be a nice option to have..

 

[Turk]

It's software and rendering techniques that need to involve next. It'd be nice to not need top shelf PC hardware to adequately drive these units.

That's probably going to take another generation or two of graphics hardware to achieve. 4K seems like a fairly achievable standard now which helps. As more people move to 4K displays it will make the hardware more mainstream.

 

[blekenbleu]

Lenovo's ThinkReality A3 3D smart glasses

Product sheet - "Most Versatile Smart Glasses Ever Designed for the Enterprise" - engadget
"It can show up to five virtual 1080p displays and has an 8-megapixel camera
that can provide 1080p video, as well as dual fish-eye cameras for room-scale tracking."
It needs to be connected to either a PC or smartphone.

 

[TedBrosby-]

Day two with my Index: Not good.
Audio seems to be a completely unreliable affair with the Valve Index. I've tried registry fixes, playing around in Sound Control, disconnecting and reconnecting my headset, updating all my drivers, overriding with general HDMI Audio instead of Nvidia HDMI audio, I've done everything.

I have to spend 15-20 minutes restarting my PC, disconnecting my Index, starting Steam VR, connecting my Index and praying to get audio to work. And after that, one restart and it's gone.

I don't understand how this doesn't come up in those dirty YouTube reviews, when I'm not alone in this:


That's just from five minutes of searching. If you're on the fence about Index vs Reverb, I'll save you the trouble, go Reverb.
The only thing you lose is that the controllers kind of suck and tracking is hit or miss. But with the Index, if you're unlucky, you end up in a situation where you're fighting with audio to get it working every time you start your computer.

The other thing none of the degenerate YouTubers talk about? The base stations are annoying to hear. They make a winding/coil whine noise that doesn't go away. It's completely normal too, this isn't a faulty device issue. They apparently have some spinning motor inside to detect where the headset is/controllers are. You have to wash them out with a fan or with the headset speakers, but since audio doesn't work on the headset, you can't do anything about them lol.

It's also a freaking massive dust magnet. My environment is very clean, I vacuum and dust every day. The Index headset collects dust on an hourly basis. I thought it was strange that it came with a glasses wiping cloth inside, but now I know why it does.

Also, cables. Cables everywhere. The headset itself requires a power adapter. The base stations have a power adapter, and the controllers have their own USB charging cables. I'm happy the controllers are lithium battery powered though because I hate AAA batteries.

Good things:
When the audio does work, it's brilliant. Very clear and I can't hear environmental noise even though they're not touching my ears.
The cable is way way better than the Reverb cable. It's very flexible and doesn't feel uncomfortable.
The IPD adjustment is awesome. It also has an FOV/depth adjustment to bring the lenses closer or further away.
The head strap and fit is excellent. It feels super comfortable.

But yeah I can't get audio working so... No idea how to tell you if it's better for racing or not.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I had this audio issue happen when I first got my Index 18 months ago.

Then there was an NVidia driver fix and a Steam VR update that made it reliable. I'm running a 2080Ti.

What I used to have to do was open SteamVR first before anything else and make sure that the Index headphones became the default headphones before starting games.

I would make sure your graphics card has the latest drivers, that your windows 10 is updated and if all else fails make sure to start Steam VR first. There was an Nvidia fix specifically for this issue.

I don't have the dust magnet issues and my base stations are at opposite corners of a large room. I can hear them if the room is quiet, but not in game or if the TV is on. I haven't had the front cover on my headset since almost day one. I have a fan on my rig that keeps a bit of air moving through my headset so there are zero issues with fogging.

My audio has been reliable for the last 15 months. My hand controllers have been excellent and I remain a very happy Index owner.

I'm sure the G2 is excellent for sim racing but I'm so impressed with my Index that I'm waiting to see what Valve comes up with next.

 

[TedBrosby-]

I had this audio issue happen when I first got my Index 18 months ago.

Then there was an NVidia driver fix and a Steam VR update that made it reliable. I'm running a 2080Ti.

What I used to have to do was open SteamVR first before anything else and make sure that the Index headphones became the default headphones before starting games.

I would make sure your graphics card has the latest drivers, that your windows 10 is updated and if all else fails make sure to start Steam VR first. There was an Nvidia fix specifically for this issue.

I don't have the dust magnet issues and my base stations are at opposite corners of a large room. I can hear them if the room is quiet, but not in game or if the TV is on. I haven't had the front cover on my headset since almost day one. I have a fan on my rig that keeps a bit of air moving through my headset so there are zero issues with fogging.

My audio has been reliable for the last 15 months. My hand controllers have been excellent and I remain a very happy Index owner.

I'm sure the G2 is excellent for sim racing but I'm so impressed with my Index that I'm waiting to see what Valve comes up with next.

Yeah, literally everything I have is already done.
Newest SteamVR, newest headset firmware, Index HMD with Nvidia HDMI audio is set as main audio, latest drivers and all windows updates are done.
Steam Support got back to me. The step that resolved it was " With SteamVR running, go to Device Manager > Sound, Video, & Game Controllers, then right-click and uninstall the High Definition Audio Device. Then right-click the controller entry again and select Scan For Hardware Changes. Wait for the device to reinstall before you retest."

I'm waiting to hear back from them if I'll have to do this every time I restart my computer. If that's the case, I'm gonna "stomach" it until I finish HL Alyx and then I'm selling it.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Fair enough. I'm not arguing that you stick with the Index. Your experience with it so far sounds horrible. So finish HL Alyx, sell it off and use the G2.

There is no point is suffering if something else works better for you. We are all in this to have fun and not to fight with hardware.

 

[TedBrosby-]

To be fair, apart from the audio issue, the Index is definitely "the" VR headset. Everything about it, the quality of the sound when it works, the comfort, the IPD adjustment and FOV knob, the feel of the cable (the Index is now the gold standard for how these cables should feel/be built, IMO), the framerate, how "clear" the image is (The Reverb is sharper and better quality, but the Index image quality is more 'polished').

When you get it out of the box, it's a very "wow" moment compared to other VR headsets I've owned/tried (Rift S, Reverb G1, original Vive).

The Reverb reminds me of those 4K TV's they sell at Wal-Mart. The resolution is super high so compared to a 1080P display the same size, it looks better and sharper but... A little bit washed and the sweet spot is very narrow. Also the controllers are just... As meh as meh gets.

The Index is like a 1080P TV but from a really high quality brand, so even though you can see some mild jagged edges from the lower resolution, the colors are better, the motion smoothness is better, the screen brightness is better. And the controllers are on another level altogether. The finger detection, the joysticks, the fact that they grip to your hands so you don't have to hold them actively.

 

[RCHeliguy]

The things you mention are the reasons why I'm waiting for Valve to introduce their next headset before I buy again. While I'm looking forward to improvements, I'm pretty content with my Index and don't feel any itch to upgrade.

Once again, my experience has been much better than yours and I'm sure I would have been very frustrated if I had similar issues.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

Good things:
When the audio does work, it's brilliant. Very clear and I can't hear environmental noise even though they're not touching my ears.
The cable is way way better than the Reverb cable. It's very flexible and doesn't feel uncomfortable.
The IPD adjustment is awesome. It also has an FOV/depth adjustment to bring the lenses closer or further away.
The head strap and fit is excellent. It feels super comfortable.

But yeah I can't get audio working so... No idea how to tell you if it's better for racing or not.

If you like G1 and appreciate these differences in Index, guess you know the answer already.

 

[RCHeliguy]

If you like G1 and appreciate these differences in Index, guess you know the answer already.

Except:

1. the motion smoothness is better
2. And the controllers are on another level altogether. The finger detection, the joysticks, the fact that they grip to your hands so you don't have to hold them actively.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

the motion smoothness is better

Is it?
I honestly never heard anyone claiming that Valve Motion Smoothing is better than MS reprojection, but I do not have both headsets on hand to compare, may be Ted can do us a favor as he has both.
All I know that it really improved in the last 6 months, they even fixed performance issue associated with Forced mode. Looks good to my eyes too, barely discernable from 90fps, except very active scenes.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I don't use motion smoothing. I run at 120 fps in most everything which makes things smoother.

 

[TedBrosby-]

Is it?
I honestly never heard anyone claiming that Valve Motion Smoothing is better than MS reprojection, but I do not have both headsets on hand to compare, may be Ted can do us a favor as he has both.
All I know that it really improved in the last 6 months, they even fixed performance issue associated with Forced mode. Looks good to my eyes too, barely discernable from 90fps, except very active scenes.

I don’t think I can make a fair comparison since I have the G1 and not the G2, but 120FPS is very hard to beat. It makes the physical movements seem more natural and real. One thing the YouTube reviewers cannot capture even with "through the lens" cameras is how it feels for your eyes. And one area people who use VR for sims don't seem to talk about is how it feels to "move around" inside your car. With the Rift S, this was a death sentence for tracking. I have no idea why but if I tried to like, lean to the left or right, or look behind me physically while driving, I almost always had some parts of the car also move with me or I would lose vertical tracking. This threw me off enough to make me wreck.
With the G1 it's a lot better, but there's still a slight element of "world moving" when I move my head around.
It's definitely survivable though.
The Index tracking is a whole other story. The world seems fixed and you're just moving around inside it. The base stations do an amazing job of tracking the headset and orientation.

Regarding controllers:
Ironically, it's good that they're so great for Index, because mouse controls on Index are not consistent at all. I constantly have the "Desktop" Steam App lose the ability to track my mouse and I have to use the controllers to exit out and get things working again.
It's also fortunate that tracking is static and so good because I can't control my desktop from inside VR as well as with the Reverb G1.
But since I do normal VR games, the controllers are a non sacrifice for me. The Index controllers are just better, and all VR controllers in the future should borrow from this technology.
But honestly, if you plan to use Windows desktop from VR, the G1 is just WAY better. The resolution is so sharp you can read text in the browser. And Microsoft did a lot to make the UX very serviceable in VR. Using your mouse is fluid and natural. You never lose your mouse position, and all the navigation in the desktop is natural and makes sense.

Regarding resolution:
Reverb G1 feels like one of those lower cost Vizio 4K TV's from Wal-Mart. It's sharp, and with 4K content it looks way better than the same content on a similar sized 55" TV that's 1080P. It's REALLY hard to ignore how high the resolution is. It feels like driving a car in real life. I even have to squint my eyes at the sun glare on the windshield. But the color and contrast is still not exactly "perfect".
Index is lower resolution, but REALLY high quality display. It feels like if you had a 1080P TV but it was one of those LG OLED's. Sure the resolution is lower, but the quality of the displays are so nice that everything feels smooth and better reproduced. Colors in the G1 seem slightly washed out and dull. On the Index, it feels very well calibrated and expensive lol. It's hard to choose between 120FPS and 4k.
You won't need Valve's motion smoothing because the resolution is low enough that you can drive over 90 FPS with a 2080 Ti or similar. With Reverb, motion smoothing is important because it has such a high resolution that your GPU probably can't drive it at 90 FPS.

Regarding Sound:
If G2 has Index headphones then that's a massive improvement. Index sound is super immersive. That being said, G1 headphones aren't bad, they're definitely serviceable for driving/sims. I suppose for HL Alyx they're not great, but you'll be more distracted by how awful the controllers are to notice the sound lol.

Regarding comfort:
This isn't even a contest. Index is way way more comfortable. A 3D printer and aftermarket face masks can only get you so far. The Index has all these physical adjustments, the face mask is so comfortable and it just "rests" perfectly on your head. And because the cable is very malleable, I leave it hanging off my head and I don't even notice it. The G1 cable, I found a way to rest it so it's not uncomfortable while driving (just let it hang to the left of your face, in front of your shoulder), but for regular VR gaming it's just obnoxious. The Index cable, you can barely notice it's there.

Regarding "Operational Noise":
Like I said before, not a fan of how the base stations sound. I'm going to mount them at opposite corners high in the ceiling, and wrap them with some sound dampening material. Otherwise when I have my room quiet (My gaming room is my office for WFH) which I do for coding (I can't code with music playing), it sounds like a slightly quieter server room...

G2 vs G1:
With the G2, I wanted to "want" it lol, but honestly it's like the HP people working on it looked at the list of things people wanted them to improve from the G1, and they ignored all the ones I wanted lol. So even if it's better than the G1, it's not better in the places that I'm not happy with the G1 like controllers and controller tracking.

Steam Support got back to me that now that I've done the driver fix in Device Manager, I shouldn't have to do this fix again, so I'm going to keep the Index.

It's not an easy decision though. The G1 is really good. Especially for Star Wars Squadrons. Since I'm in a strong financial position, I might just keep both headsets, do 50 hours of racing with the Index and 50 hours of racing with the G1. But from my limited experience/first impressions with the Index, weird audio driver issue aside, it's just a better all around VR package. And since I do wanna play Beat Saber and HL Alyx, I hope the driver issues are a thing of the past and if they are, Index wins for me.