DiRT Rally Is DiRT Rally simulation ?

[Dany Five]

Guys, I made an ultimate test. Coming from iRacing, rF, SimBin, Assetto Corsa, RBR, etc... I made 3 videos. I bought tha game and recorded my first ever rides. I didn't know what to expect, so I was treating it like sim and gave it a go. Here are my thoughts:

http://www.racedepartment.com/media/videos/dirt-rally-first-impressions-from-wrc.8997/

http://www.racedepartment.com/media/videos/dirt-rally-first-impressions-rwd.8998/

http://www.racedepartment.com/media/videos/dirt-rally-first-impressions-from-group-b.8999/

 

[bogani]

I'm getting more and more into the tarmac at Monte. The dry parts in the WRCs ain't that bad actually. The snow and ice should be more slippy though.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

Still not gotten around to invest heavy time in those stages, I guess a lot would come from optimising the setup, the tyre feels a lot less progressive and informative on the tarmac on my current setup tho, very snappy even on the dry bits.

 

[bogani]

Still not gotten around to invest heavy time in those stages, I guess a lot would come from optimising the setup, the tyre feels a lot less progressive and informative on the tarmac on my current setup tho, very snappy even on the dry bits.

Yes the FFB, even tweaked, suffers alot on tarmac. I'm really looking fwd to the totally reworked FFB. Hope they can get it right.

I suppose the tires used in Monte is extremely soft cut tires and as the stages are mostly short they would actually produce really high grip on dry tarmac.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

Did you say you had found a way to test edit the grips, for your own pleasure ??

I spent my lunch working on the setup for the Mk2 Escort, for the first stage, it has improved but the core problem with the snap remains, if you get into a four wheel drift I am finding , and then allow it to progress beyond more than a couple of degrees it becomes unrecoverable very quickly indeed, regardless of any setup tweaks I found so far

 

[bogani]

Did you say you had found a way to test edit the grips, for your own pleasure ??

I spent my lunch working on the setup for the Mk2 Escort, for the first stage, it has improved but the core problem with the snap remains, if you get into a four wheel drift I am finding , and then allow it to progress beyond more than a couple of degrees it becomes unrecoverable very quickly indeed, regardless of any setup tweaks I found so far

In the car folders there is a tuning map. In there you there is a tire line. All cars but the WRCs is set to med-grip. If you change that to low_grip there is quite a change. There is one file for each rally.

 

[samekyo]

Please keep in mind that breaking distances are still way too short even with that mod.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

Ok thanks, might give that a try, just for the hell of it tho while we wait on some official changes

 

[bogani]

This is an interesting conversation on twitter.

https://twitter.com/b0gani/status/598570861243797505

 

[Kazumi]

I spent several days sitting next to WRC driver Sebastien Chardonnet not long ago, he was giving us feedback to dial in the physics and handling etc for WRC5, which is my current project, getting his feedback on various surface grips was interesting, and also confirmed many of my core beliefs on how it should roughly be, I would also say what I wrote previously takes that into consideration, not perfect (what game is) but a damned fine effort to be starting the project with, it is probably a little frowned upon to comment on a competitors game, but I think there is room for more than one good rally game, and it is nice to play someone else's rendition quite honestly, and if that game also happens to have cult classic Historic Rally Cars in there, more the merrier, besides, strong competition only makes me want to double down and try even harder to make ours better

I see. Thanks for that info. Some cars are definitely easier to drive on surfaces like snow compared to RBR. You have half the torque in modern WRC cars, so we would have to compare it using ~50-70% throttle. If you do that in Dirt Rally or use left foot braking and brake a bit I think as some people say there definitely is too much easy grip here and there, but it's still early access so they can still improve it. Gravel with lower forces / grip definitely looks more than promising especially compared to Codemasters previous uhh... efforts so far.

Good luck with your project . I'm ready for more rally games & sims. There are almost~ too many track racing games...

 

[Skazz]

2015 is going to be a great year for rally... 3 "next gen" titles all landing close together.

Codies surprised a lot of us not only with Early Access but also with the level of simulation (compared to the last 10 years of their output). I wonder if Milestone will also be able to up their game in Sebastian Loeb Evo compared to the recent WRC games (which I really didn't get on with)?


Also... I do wonder how many people are using non-upgraded rally cars in custom rally mode, and concluding they lack power without realizing they are probably down on the "Max power" value by 50+ bhp. you have to own the rally car in career mode and complete the upgrades before they become available in custom rally mode.

Complaining about too much grip with cars which are down on power is all too easy, it's just that the game doesn't make clear this deficit until you actually dig deeper into career mode.

 

[function9]

2015 is going to be a great year for rally... 3 "next gen" titles all landing close together.

Codies surprised a lot of us not only with Early Access but also with the level of simulation (compared to the last 10 years of their output). I wonder if Milestone will also be able to up their game in Sebastian Loeb Evo compared to the recent WRC games (which I really didn't get on with)?

Also... I do wonder how many people are using non-upgraded rally cars in custom rally mode, and concluding they lack power without realizing they are probably down on the "Max power" value by 50+ bhp. you have to own the rally car in career mode and complete the upgrades before they become available in custom rally mode.

Complaining about too much grip with cars which are down on power is all too easy, it's just that the game doesn't make clear this deficit until you actually dig deeper into career mode.

I have a feeling that at least part of why we have a Codemasters early access is because of Loeb Rally. As long as they can deliver they'll be stealing a whole lot of thunder away from Milestone.

But it's a little concerning when they have to rethink how they've been doing things, rewrite code, remove legacy junk to get something as basic as proper FFB. Almost get the feeling they weren't expecting to have to redo anything, that their current "FFB" and their recommended settings were good enough. Who were the people that tested the game before it went early access and told them the FFB was good? Who knows what they'll have to rework/rewrite when they start looking at physics, or grip levels, or damage levels, or why cars decelerate so quickly.

Are you trying to say cars exhibit too much grip on different surface conditions, carry very little momentum, and have unrealistic braking distances because they're down 50hp?

 

[Skazz]

Are you trying to say cars exhibit too much grip on different surface conditions, carry very little momentum, and have unrealistic braking distances because they're down 50hp?

Obviously not everything is related to power, but given the way Codemasters chose to upgrade power for owned cars, it's necessary to compare real life with upgraded cars before making comparisons, as I'm sure you'll agree.

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

Obviously not everything is related to power, but given the way Codemasters chose to upgrade power for owned cars, it's necessary to compare real life with upgraded cars before making comparisons, as I'm sure you'll agree.

I agree, and I feel that the whole grinding-thing is BS. I kinda get the theory behind it in the career mode (even though the money, and difficulty should be enough to get people to drive), but that online-cars are depending on the career mode ruins the chance for a good online league tbh. And is, as I said. BS.

 

[Fabio Rodrigues]

Codemasters has posted something that might be relevant to this issue: the game does simulate power loss due to altitude...

Another key element of Pikes Peak is the change in altitude. The difference in air pressure has a huge impact on the power the engine can produce and how much downforce is created by those big wings. Power loss with altitude is something we already simulate (you may have noticed a difference in car performance between Wales and Greece) but in Pikes Peak you actually get to feel the power drop as you climb.

(source)

Regarding the rest of the issues, I'm willing to cut them some slack. It seems pretty clear to me that Dirt Rally was conceived more as an experiment than anything else, and they're actually surprised with the warm reception to this new emphasis in a less arcadey experience (and good sales!). So they need time to adjust to these new demands. If they actually improve the FFB, as they claim they have, then I'll remain optimistic and expect good things from them.

 

[function9]

Obviously not everything is related to power, but given the way Codemasters chose to upgrade power for owned cars, it's necessary to compare real life with upgraded cars before making comparisons, as I'm sure you'll agree.

If a direct comparison is being made, absolutely. But, most of what I see is people speaking in general terms about grip levels.

 

[Kazumi]

2015 is going to be a great year for rally... 3 "next gen" titles all landing close together.

Codies surprised a lot of us not only with Early Access but also with the level of simulation (compared to the last 10 years of their output). I wonder if Milestone will also be able to up their game in Sebastian Loeb Evo compared to the recent WRC games (which I really didn't get on with)?

I'm always skeptical so... I liked their first WRC game and hoped for major improvements. I think the visuals and track design has improved. With a few improvements I think their games could be a lot more popular. If you look at Ride for example there is more potential for an ultimate road racing game with bikes. And for a console / console-ish racing game it looks (and plays, judging by their other games and user impressions) a bit too sterile in my opinion.

I don't really mind if one of these game has some arcade elements, so I'm always confused some people are offended by this. Naturally Codemasters would be able to fill that gap, but we'll see if the continue the more serious direction.

Complaining about too much grip with cars which are down on power is all too easy, it's just that the game doesn't make clear this deficit until you actually dig deeper into career mode.

Yeah, same for not enough grip. I assume people see the difference. That's power grip ratio, and you also have to factor in the actual gear ratios, speed and numerous other factors. You can also stick to more or less loose surface which doesn't directly increase forces / grip, at least in real life and RBR. Not all physics engines factor that in properly. According to one of the Dirt Rally devs there is at least some kind of forces accumulation.

 

[Mark Reynolds]

And of course the faster you go the most you start to feel the subtle differences and background physics.......took another 10 secs off my PB at Sweet Lamb in the Escort, good enough for P4 on the world leaderboard when I posted it, getting near my max now I think, I can see bits of time here and there, but stringing it all together into the perfect stage is a big ask, also makes it even more fun replaying the stage...

 

[Ole Marius Myrvold]

Damn @Mark Reynolds it kinda frustrating to see how, seemingly safe you are driving, while achieving good times, while I either drive safe and slow or all over the place and fast. Gotta try to "respond" to that time now
In the meantime, some flat out, a bit to much balls action!

 

[ledanek]

I think I'm getting addicted....for every video I post, I must be doing 5-10 stages I'm not sharing
this was before I got introduce to the Ford Fiesta RS (video link)

now, messing around with different setting

 

[bogani]

And of course the faster you go the most you start to feel the subtle differences and background physics.......took another 10 secs off my PB at Sweet Lamb in the Escort, good enough for P4 on the world leaderboard when I posted it, getting near my max now I think, I can see bits of time here and there, but stringing it all together into the perfect stage is a big ask, also makes it even more fun replaying the stage...

Great drive! Someone just did 6.17 on the daily event with a stock Stratos. Sometimes I wish you could watch the replay of the top times.