International Formula Master

[Erik Aalbers]

Finally Race On is availble on Steam. I downloaded it straight away and couldn't wait to try out the Formula Masters cars. I was really surprised by one way the lack of speed, but on the other hand the huge amount of grip.

After some time spent I do like them a lot. You can really have some close racing.

What are your thoughts on this single seater addition? I'm really looking forward for an club event with these fun racers. Also what do you think is the big difference between the F3000 and the formula master?

 

[Andreas Lündin]

Interesting...
Check out the real stuff at
http://www.formulamaster.net/eng/
and
http://www.radicalsportscars.com/

I do wonder how the cars in the RaceOn series feels compared to the real stuff? Is there somenone who have an idea? Maybe that have tried the real stuff?

 

[mcwood]

I'm sorry for my stupid piontless question.

Right, F master and Radical are different even the shape..

I mean, the driving skill...like braking timing and how to get corner something.

my favorite DIff setting for Radical SR4 is 25/30/1 (power/coast/preload)
and brake pressure is 95% for dry..and anti roll for rear is 0%..etc.

When i drive a F Master in Senetterton, my lap time almost same as Radical.
Diff is (40/50/....) and brake pressure is 90%...almost default setting.
( my SR4 252 lap is around 1'2"~1'4" with 7laps fuel )

Which means even with a default setting F master is fast enough to Radical SR4 252 in my case.
In other view of point, it means i don't drive F master to the limit.

I think in normal case F master should faster than Radical SR4 252.
but i'm not utilizing the merit of F master at all now.

for example...FM's diff(40/50/3) is sharp enough to SR4's(25/30/1)in my case.
but if i want to try Trail braking with FM i have to make brake pressure more loose
..SR4(95%)/FM(90%)....like this.

There's big difference between Radical and FM.. I have felt it.
however, I can't explain it with well-founded logic something.

 

[Mike Narger]

I've seen you around.
I have the car setup up stiff at the front soft at the back which makes me very quick though fast corners.
I chuck the car about but you don't need to use much steering lock. In the Radical you have to be smooth in the IFM you have to be aggressive.

 

[Karl Strömer]

One tip would be to always run 100% brake pressure. If you lock up, learn to brake smoother instead of lowering pressure. That way you'll be able to have max braking power at your disposal needed during the initial braking after a high speed straight.

 

[mcwood]

Thanks to Mike and Karl

I will try to be more aggressive in IFM
and use braking pressure with 100%.

accordingly...I need be more aggressive and delicate in driving~!!

 

[Lee Downham]

One tip would be to always run 100% brake pressure. If you lock up, learn to brake smoother instead of lowering pressure. That way you'll be able to have max braking power at your disposal needed during the initial braking after a high speed straight.

I know where you are going with this, but sometimes dropping the brake pressure can bring you big gains in the braking areas because you are not locking up, and no matter how accurate you are on the brake, this will help.

With FM I would say you chuck it in deep, brake late, accelerate early, make sure you catch and correct any overly aggressive manoeuvres and then hold on for grim death :wink2:
I find FMs give you tonnes of feedback and allow you to correct slides, etc as you would imagine you could in a real car.

 

[mcwood]

Thanks Lee~

That's right FM is well balanced car, compare with Radical( Radical is also attractive though).
So, If i want to drive it to the limit, first i have to adjust my G25 ffb.

my profile for it is now...
wheel angle 400 degree
feed back strengh 100%
spring 0% /damper 0%
using center spring... but(center spring 0%)

In controll setting
speedsensitive 0%
steeringsensitive 50%
throttlesensitive 0%
brakesensitive 0%
clutchseneitive 50%
every dead zone 0%

In feedback
force feedback effect LOW
force feedback strengh 100%
reverse effects ON
steering force 25~30%
steerign Vib 0%
engine 0%
braked 0%
curbs 0%
impact 200%

this is my setting for G25

please give me any tip(or comments) to make it more aggrasive with FM.

Thank you all~

 

[The Thorn]

My first post here is one I want to spend in a good way.

I have done some races with the Radicals, and the past few days I have driven the IFM cars untill they fall into pieves. Here is what I find. Some things are the same in both cars, but some are fundamentaly different.

When I first raced the Radicals, I felt like it was my car, I had to drive smooth, not only steering, but also throttle and braking.
With the IFM cars, I feel like I can change from braking before/in a corner to accelerating out of the corner in a instant, with almost full power out of the corner. Nothing really smooth with that.

Both these cars have reasonably high downforce to very high downforce. This makes it difficult for some people (depending on driving style) to judge the speed you can get away with. After my first few runs I was slow with the car, untill I went from smooth driving to all-risk driving. I was just looking every lap again what speed I could get out of it.
I did the same with the Radicals, but these cars seem to be much easier to judge then the IFM. When I first went for a full-speed lap with the IFM, it was like I would overshoot every corner when I entered the corner, but the car grips like crazy.

Also, go to the setup section on this forum. Those setups from Bram are MUCH better then those basic ones from Simbin.

In short: Try taking every corner with much more risk.

 

[mcwood]

In short: Try taking every corner with much more risk.

Thanks~ I will drive it with more risk.
Yes, FM has a Crazy grips at every corner compare to Radical.

 

[mcwood]

And also for me...Mr. Brams' setup is textbook.

For the first time i started Simracing with GTR-E STCC
His setup was a kind an answer to drive BMW, actually i'm not good at still now though.

Especially his setups for suspension was perfect no more adjustment needed.
and he had adjusted almost every track with suspension.

but, in this case of FM....I have his setups for FM now.
i found some interesting about suspension of FM.
he goes with almost default sets especially for suspension now.

Does it mean, the Simbin's default set for suspention is all-round set?

 

[The Thorn MJ]

It could be, but I think that Formula-cars are even more sensative to suspension changes then Thin-tops, just because of the lower weight. Up untill high downforce is pulling you on the track, you will be more bothered with the bumps in the road then with cars like the WTCC cars were the downforce isn't that strong.

High-downforce cars are always a problem with suspensions. You want to have it soft for mechanical grip, but that means that the car needs to be set higher. You don't want it to get too high, because you will loose grip at high speed, so the suspension needs to be stiff.
I always have that problem, but mostly I make 2 setups for a Formula-car. One with softer suspension, and one with stiff suspension. One of them is mostly faster, but if that is not the case, it might just be something in between.

 

[mcwood]

I always have that problem, but mostly I make 2 setups for a Formula-car. One with softer suspension, and one with stiff suspension. One of them is mostly faster, but if that is not the case, it might just be something in between.

Right~! This is a point.

Sometimes i think too much low height of F master with stiff suspension goes to make it bad...
i mean loose grip at a certain point on the contrary.

In general, low height and stiff suspension gives more speed.
but if it is too siff to absorb the impact from a certain turning or brakeing,
then the car going to loose grip and slip away from track.

That is the point to make a room between stiff and soft to get max grip~!

 

[The Thorn MJ]

It is very logical that a too low ride-height will let the car loose grip in some situations, in real life. The underbody must have air going through from the front to the back. When there is a situation were the height will get too low to let air get through, it stalls, and stops generating downforce. This is very disrupting on bumpy parts of a track.

Best thing is to set the suspension to something were it drives good, and doesn't loose contact with the track, if possible. Contact is the most important, because there is no grip without contact.

The reason you might want stiff suspension on a Formula-car, is because downforce can decrease when the ride-height gets difference from one side of the car to the other. Keeping it stable will give you stable downforce. A soft suspension will let the car tilt when cornering, braking and accelerating in such a way that it will dramaticly change downforce, not only the amount of it, but also the balance.

So this is some thing to look into. If you run on a fast track (mostly fast corners) you might just want a low ride height, and stiff suspension. For low-speed tracks (mostly slow corners) you won't need the high downforce that much, so you get away with more mechanical grip from soft suspension.

I hope this helps a bit. izza2:

 

[Mike Narger]

Think of it this way. With the Radicals you drive like Button; Very smooth on steering, braking accelerating: With the IFM drive like Barrichello; aggresive on steering, braking, accelerating.

 

[Bram Hengeveld]

Really? I drive the Radical as agressive as i can. Smack if from left to right all over the track

 

[mcwood]

Thanks guys~

Yesterday, I drove FM at ESTORIL.
I think this track is an good example of slow corners.
as you mentioned, enough ride height and soft suspension needed.

Thank you~
maybe, i had tried it with Mr.Bram's setup also...but i'm not sure
Coz, my PC was shut down with Freezing..i will check it today.

 

[mcwood]

I did drive with Mr. Brams' setup for ESTORIL FM

and found that the wing(front/rear) and suspension are really different
from Radical's...(it's more sensitive at reaction after one click tweak)

on the contrary in case of Anti-roll bar, it's not that much sensitive.

So, if i want to make sus stiff, usually with Radical, fast bump(+1) also fast rebound(+2).
but in case of FM , If i add 1 click at FB and 2 Clicks at FR then the car bouncing from starting.
I think it is needed to add more gap between FB and FR (more than 3 clicks)

And it's very interesting when i see the setups of Mr. Brams'
Rear SUS is more stiff than front SUS about (+ 2 clicks) at ESTORIL,
also rear wing is not that much tweeked (15-->14).

If i drive my Radical at ESTORIL, i will tweak rear wing first, maybe
(5-->3 or 1).... But in case of FM, if i change rear wing with that much,
it goes out of track or spin at every corner.

 

[Erik Aalbers]

Nice thread with some good info on the FM cars. Just wanted to share my experience which I got from the Imola 08 race from two weeks ago.

First of all, what a grip :O amazing. Been practicing a lot with high fuel load and driving my car empty. This is how I could build up my race pace and as soon as I started doing consistent laps I could go faster and faster. Winning time was majorly done by taking the corners aggressive, full on the curb and during steering through the corners full throttle again to get on the pace as early as possible.

Also I do some aggressive downshifting, specially from 6th to 3rd gear, back to second a little slower cause that might break my back away.

Think most of this has been said by others, just my experience in this wonderful car!

 

[mcwood]

Right, it has a good grip compare with other cars.

But it's difficult to tweek suspension....i have no idea,
with a little adjustment of sus, the car rattling along the track.

Braking, yeh~ it's also great.
and i have changed my braking habit, first step on brake to get more cut of RPM then shiftdown...6/5/4/3/2 at radical corner.

It's relatively easy to do "power off oversteer" with low rear anti-roll bar.

I think the Engine duct size is bigger than Radical (size 2 = size 3)
But have no idea about Wing (front/Rear)....

 

[Bob Luneski]

Just drove FM for the first time. WAY TOO COOL!!!!!!!!

When is the first RDFM league??? Sign me up!!!!!!