Intel 12th-Gen CPUs

[RCHeliguy]

I exclusively run in VR and I can already get 90 fps rock solid in everything and 120 and 144 fps in some titles.

So I won't see a fps difference between them. How would I even measure the difference?

Arguably I don't need a new CPU on my gaming computer at this time. I'm simply upgrading it because it looks like a big jump and I need to upgrade my devbox and would prefer to upgrade both. The i9-9900K will be MAJOR overkill on my devbox, but it will upgrade to Win 11.

Sounds like I should be able to do Gear 1 running 3600 MHz.
I guess I'll let you know what the MB has for OOB DDR4 definitions.

 

[Trebormoore84]

Chart looks like difference between gear 1 and and gear 2 to same sticks and timings is approx. 4%.
Although again the gains using dual rank instead of single rank are far more dramatic as usual, but this detail is often overlooked.

i.e. if you were running dual rank in gear 2 vs single rank in gear 2 that's a difference of 8%, quite a lot. If its your bog standard 2x 8gb kit its highly likely single rank. Surely that is the elephant in the room here? Not the gear mode.

And then at the extremes gear 1 dual rank vs gear 2 single rank and you have lost 12%, that is a huge chunk left at the door.

If its a Trident Z 2x 16gb kit (for example there are cheaper kits out there) and its got straight timings i.e. 3600 16-16-16-35 (or whatever kit as long as the timings are all the same) its highly likely to be dual rank Samsung b-die. Though you can never be certain until you get typhoon burner to read the sticks and confirm its dual rank. Or you get 2x 2x 8gb kits and achieve dual rank that way. That's usually how this works at the moment anyway for DDR4 I mean.

b-die is expensive of course, so the next step down from b-die is Crucial Ballisix, i.e. Micron chips. I cant remember who else uses micron.

Everything else is Hynix and although they get the job done they are trash if you want to tune.

Btw not all Trident Z is the same. Some if not all sticks with timings like 16-19-19 are actually Hynix and don't like tuning or overclocking. But hey the RGB and marketing fooled ya! Buying decent ram is a complete nightmare tbh. I absolutely hate it.

 

[RasmusP]

I guess I'll let you know what the MB has for OOB DDR4 definitions.

About this:
the motherboards don't have any profiles. The XMP profiles are specified on the RAM sticks. Most cheaper and slower RAM comes with only one profile, the specifications on the product.
But the higher end RAM often comes with multiple profiles since not all CPUs (and mobos) are able to run the maximum.

Doesn't really change much about what you're going to do but I wanted to clarify on this.
Let us know what XMP profiles your RAM offers!

Buying decent ram is a complete nightmare tbh. I absolutely hate it.

Indeed... At some point you either really search for the best trade off to get or you just throw it all away and buy whatever looks great or is cheap

i.e. if you were running dual rank in gear 2 vs single rank in gear 2 that's a difference of 8%, quite a lot. If its your bog standard 2x 8gb kit its highly likely single rank. Surely that is the elephant in the room here? Not the gear mode.

Yep.. Although that's rocket lake so who knows how it all scales for alder lake. I just wanted to post something where the differences got tested.
I mean for RCHeliguy it's free fps and less work than reading and posting on this forum
Goes like this:
- Put MoBo to Gear 1
- load xmp 4000 profile
-> try to boot. If not ->
- load xmp 3600 profile
-> try to boot. If not ->
- load xmp 3200 profile

 

[RobertR1]

2x16 bdie ddr4 is all dual rank.

14/3200 DR bdie bin is plenty for ADL

 

[RCHeliguy]

- Put MoBo to Gear 1
- load xmp 4000 profile
-> try to boot. If not ->
- load xmp 3600 profile
-> try to boot. If not ->
- load xmp 3200 profile

Looks easy enough.
Thanks for the advice.

 

[Trebormoore84]

Yeah agree with all the above. Lets just park it here. Don't want to turn this into a detailed discussion on RAM. Just wanted to point out some key points if its not already obvious.

Ram latency is more important than the big frequency number I think is the message.

For best results in games. Get b-die, get dual rank.

 

[RobertR1]

https://www.goha.ru/obzor-operativnoj-pamyati-ddr5-kingston-fury-beast-4800-dBzOYB

DDR4 (lower end) vs Micron DDR5, both oc'd, compared in gaming from one our oc group guys who does work for this publication.

Another one of our guys is doing bdie testing so that'll be out maybe end of this week.

https://imgur.com/a/4EBmg3A

DDR5 oc'd timings and voltages.

 

[RCHeliguy]

@RobertR1 keep the info coming!

I don't think I'll worry about heat being an issue with the i9-12900.

I think I was looking for an excuse to get a Fractal Torrent case, and "maybe" when the 40 series GPU's are released I might reconsider it since it appears that the Torrent has a 5C GPU cooling advantage over my case, but something better may be out by then. It could be a full year or longer before I get my hands on a 40 series card based on chip shortages etc..

It also looks like I'm going back through my Fractal R6 hardware since I noticed that they have GPU card supports and my 2080Ti is currently sagging. How did I miss that!!!!

 

[Neilski]

DDR5 oc'd timings and voltages.

Vcore = 1.376 V? Seems a bit on the ouch side.

 

[RasmusP]

It also looks like I'm going back through my Fractal R6 hardware since I noticed that they have GPU card supports and my 2080Ti is currently sagging.

You could also simply buy a support thingy like I did: ("UpHere GPU brace")

Vcore = 1.376 V? Seems a bit on the ouch side.

12th gen seems to have a higher vcore in general so that seems to be reasonable. I have no idea why the vcore is higher though.. Maybe it's rather "vcore" instead of the old vcore we know?

 

[RCHeliguy]

You could also simply buy a support thingy like I did: ("UpHere GPU brace")

I ordered something similar that I liked. Thanks!

Waiting for the rest of the parts to trickle in.

 

[Deleted member 197115]

You could also simply buy a support thingy like I did: ("UpHere GPU brace")
View attachment 518068

12th gen seems to have a higher vcore in general so that seems to be reasonable. I have no idea why the vcore is higher though.. Maybe it's rather "vcore" instead of the old vcore we know?

There was a good trick from Jay2Cents on that sagging prevention. Takes one screw.

 

[Fennario]

Updated technique from Jayz which uses extra slot covers to wedge the mount.

 

[James Skinner]

They are also shipping GPUs with stands now to stop sagging - my 6900xt came with one, the card is massive! Wasn't sure about the aesthetics at first but looks okay - and can't see it at all with a vr headset on!
On the topic of cooling / power - the i7-12700k is still running extremely cool even during heavy vr gaming, of course it's not an i9 and YMMV - this is with an EVGA CLC 240 AIO and an airflow focused case so would be interesting to see how different setups vary...

 

[EsxPaul]

Another vote for the upHere bracket. Costs peanuts and you can slide the little rubber support piece anywhere along the brace to get the support exactly where you need it most.

 

[RasmusP]

Another vote for the upHere bracket. Costs peanuts and you can slide the little rubber support piece anywhere along the brace to get the support exactly where you need it most.
View attachment 518172

Sick white&black - build mate!

Mine isn't anywhere close as pretty... But I don't have a glass side panel so who cares
Cable ocd was still a thing though... I told myself it would have to be super tidy "For the airflow"

 

[RCHeliguy]

A friend of mine just posted that he will never buy another ASUS product again because he says that they only stand behind their products based on being under warranty based on the manufacture date and not the sales date.

I don't know what particular ASUS product he is referring to and haven't asked yet.

 

[Fennario]

A friend of mine just posted that he will never buy another ASUS product again because he says that they only stand behind their products based on being under warranty based on the manufacture date and not the sales date.

I don't know what particular ASUS product he is referring to and haven't asked yet.

Doubtful. Warranties start from date of purchase in the US (date of delivery in EU). That said, there can be occasional issues if purchased from a System Integrator (Origin, Maingear, etc.)... In those cases the start date would be the date the company accepted payment/started the build (eg. 8-12 week build time is deducted from manufacturer warranty coverage but is usually compensated for by the SI's own 1 year warranty).

Warranty Terms | Official Support | ASUS Sri Lanka

 

[RCHeliguy]

Doubtful. Warranties start from date of purchase in the US (date of delivery in EU). That said, there can be occasional issues if purchased from a System Integrator (Origin, Maingear, etc.)... In those cases the start date would be the date the company accepted payment/started the build (eg. 8-12 week build time is deducted from manufacturer warranty coverage but is usually compensated for by the SI's own 1 year warranty).

Warranty Terms | Official Support | ASUS Sri Lanka

This guy is likely just venting his spleen then. He tends to be a bit of a hot head.

However I think this is a great example of how a singular experience can put someone off a brand no matter what the brand's reputation happens to be.

 

[Neilski]

However I think this is a great example of how a singular experience can put someone off a brand no matter what the brand's reputation happens to be.

Agreed.
Funnily enough I have had a few Asus experiences in the last 3 years which have put them in the "probably never again" category for any products at all. Among those experiences: a PC motherboard (Z170 board failing to cope with pretty vanilla DDR4 3200 memory), a horrible laptop design fail (simply cleaning dust from beside the fans requires the heatsink assembly to be *completely* removed, wtf!?) and the fact that unlike the vendors of most laptops I've had to dismantle in the last 20 years, they refuse to provide any kind of service manuals, which makes fixing them far more of a PITA than it should be.