The track that uses this concept currently is COTA.
It is meant to aid overtake. Check the race hightlights from the USGP to see the dives.
Lucas and Tilke are friends.
How to Make Formula One Awesome Again...
- Thread starter Paul Jeffrey
- Start date
It is meant to aid overtake. Check the race hightlights from the USGP to see the dives.
Lucas and Tilke are friends.
I think you can make this very easy: almost completely open the spec. It's gotta have four wheels and a driver (and provide a good safety standard for said driver), but only impose one limit: per race fuel allotment.
The first season is X kg - build the fastest car you can that can do the race distance on that allotment. Then you start bringing that number down over the years - gradually reducing the max fuel allotment down to zero.
I think the engineers would go wild and we the fans would be the beneficiaries! Theres no doubt this scheme would again put F1 at the forefront of automotive innovation.
The first season is X kg - build the fastest car you can that can do the race distance on that allotment. Then you start bringing that number down over the years - gradually reducing the max fuel allotment down to zero.
I think the engineers would go wild and we the fans would be the beneficiaries! Theres no doubt this scheme would again put F1 at the forefront of automotive innovation.
i'm trying not to laugh , but it's quite hard.
don't be offended i f you were serious.
But this is serious buiseness, we need serious ideas.
come on man , my nephew could have made a similar proposition, and he's eleven....
" FIA Annoucement ": New F1 regulation for 2020
"You can make the car you want, guys ! no limits ! every one is great ! we are a family ! woooohooo! ".
man...
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So, should I put you down as a "no" then?
Matheus Machado
Talking Door Racing
This. F1 should be about bringing cutting edge innovations to the automotive industry. Although I wouldn't necessarily agree on bringing fuel down to 0, those are the kinds of challenges I want to see in F1.
While we're at it, let's just revive Jim Clark.
wombat999
Premium
Some interesting thoughts in among some highly impractical ones.
FWIW I'll throw a couple of mine in.
Engines: Any number of cylinders up to 12, capacity 3.0L N/A and 1.0L T/C, with a fixed fuel allowance as the old Group C (1980s) for ALL cars. All exotic and possibly toxic materials such as beryllium banned.
Minimum weight should be based on the number of cylinders. (as per the original 4 stroke MotoGP regulations)
Fuel: 100 octane unleaded, no additives, none, nada, and as mentioned above, a fixed allowance per car per race. A single supplier is not an option, competition between manufacturers is a good thing.
Transmissions: Up to 8 ratios and perhaps automatic, the weight of the said transmission must be combined with the power plant.
Aero: Back to basics, flat bottom means just that, the entire undersurface from the front and rear points must be flat, in other words from the nose to the tail no aero modelling!
Front and rear wings limited to a single plane fixed surface, maximum width and depth specified, a single trim tab (aka 'Gurney Flap') front and rear also width and depth specified, with no 'extras' attached to these or any other surface. Think something along the lines of the 1979-1980 Williams FW07 minus ground effects.
Suspension: Adjustable within certain restraints, ride height (must be a fixed minimum), rake, softness/hardness only can be adjusted from within the car, any major changes can only be carried out by pit crew when the car is stationary.
Electronics: NO communication between driver and crew with the exception of safety warnings, exceptions would cover yellow flag cautions and safety car alerts. Absolutely NO DRIVER COACHING!
Basic ECU driver control allowed on board.
Rubber: Hard, Soft, Wet and Really Wet! Multiple suppliers a must! Competition between manufacturers is a good thing. Tyre width needs to be reduced by perhaps 10% and sidewall heights raised, with certain requirements for sidewall strength included.
Venues: A return to more traditional circuits and the demise of 'Purchased' events is vital, a Formula 1 Championship lacking (for example) a French or German Grand Prix makes a mockery of the true DNA integral to the sport. Traditional venues and Nations should receive a discount for running their events, 'newcomers' who buy their way in can and must be made to pay heavily.
There is much more to say on the subject but 'Formula 1' today is a farce, the supposed 'ecological' research touted by the participating manufacturers is hypocrisy of the highest order.
FWIW I'll throw a couple of mine in.
Engines: Any number of cylinders up to 12, capacity 3.0L N/A and 1.0L T/C, with a fixed fuel allowance as the old Group C (1980s) for ALL cars. All exotic and possibly toxic materials such as beryllium banned.
Minimum weight should be based on the number of cylinders. (as per the original 4 stroke MotoGP regulations)
Fuel: 100 octane unleaded, no additives, none, nada, and as mentioned above, a fixed allowance per car per race. A single supplier is not an option, competition between manufacturers is a good thing.
Transmissions: Up to 8 ratios and perhaps automatic, the weight of the said transmission must be combined with the power plant.
Aero: Back to basics, flat bottom means just that, the entire undersurface from the front and rear points must be flat, in other words from the nose to the tail no aero modelling!
Front and rear wings limited to a single plane fixed surface, maximum width and depth specified, a single trim tab (aka 'Gurney Flap') front and rear also width and depth specified, with no 'extras' attached to these or any other surface. Think something along the lines of the 1979-1980 Williams FW07 minus ground effects.
Suspension: Adjustable within certain restraints, ride height (must be a fixed minimum), rake, softness/hardness only can be adjusted from within the car, any major changes can only be carried out by pit crew when the car is stationary.
Electronics: NO communication between driver and crew with the exception of safety warnings, exceptions would cover yellow flag cautions and safety car alerts. Absolutely NO DRIVER COACHING!
Basic ECU driver control allowed on board.
Rubber: Hard, Soft, Wet and Really Wet! Multiple suppliers a must! Competition between manufacturers is a good thing. Tyre width needs to be reduced by perhaps 10% and sidewall heights raised, with certain requirements for sidewall strength included.
Venues: A return to more traditional circuits and the demise of 'Purchased' events is vital, a Formula 1 Championship lacking (for example) a French or German Grand Prix makes a mockery of the true DNA integral to the sport. Traditional venues and Nations should receive a discount for running their events, 'newcomers' who buy their way in can and must be made to pay heavily.
There is much more to say on the subject but 'Formula 1' today is a farce, the supposed 'ecological' research touted by the participating manufacturers is hypocrisy of the highest order.
wombat999
Premium
Step 1: employ Gordon Murray
Step 2: get Gordon Murray to create regs for an F1 car
Step 3: watch the racing improve.
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article/september-2012/66/gordon-murrays-f1-brief
Step 2: get Gordon Murray to create regs for an F1 car
Step 3: watch the racing improve.
https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article/september-2012/66/gordon-murrays-f1-brief
It's simple, a much higher mechanical VS aero grip ratio in mechanical's favor.
Also, allow the teams to choose whatever number of cylinders and cylinder angle (eg. 60 degrees, 110 degrees, etc.) they want. As long as they all stick to the total displacement limit, why can't one team run an 82 degree v8 while another runs a 120 degree v12 or v10?
Naturally aspirated because Formula 1 is supposed to be a sensory experience and right now cars just sound like very loud vacuum cleaners. Turbos kill the sound. Even the Turbos from the 80s couldn't compare to the naturally aspirated engines but, compared to now, at least the 80s Turbos roared like beasts, not mention popped, gurgled, spat fire, etc. but the turbo engines of today are none of that, they are just bland in every way (besides technically but 9 of 10 people couldn't care less).
Cars need to be wider, they are very narrow right now. The 2017 rules only made the suspension width wider, the car bodies are still very narrow which makes them goofy looking.
Also, allow the teams to choose whatever number of cylinders and cylinder angle (eg. 60 degrees, 110 degrees, etc.) they want. As long as they all stick to the total displacement limit, why can't one team run an 82 degree v8 while another runs a 120 degree v12 or v10?
Naturally aspirated because Formula 1 is supposed to be a sensory experience and right now cars just sound like very loud vacuum cleaners. Turbos kill the sound. Even the Turbos from the 80s couldn't compare to the naturally aspirated engines but, compared to now, at least the 80s Turbos roared like beasts, not mention popped, gurgled, spat fire, etc. but the turbo engines of today are none of that, they are just bland in every way (besides technically but 9 of 10 people couldn't care less).
Cars need to be wider, they are very narrow right now. The 2017 rules only made the suspension width wider, the car bodies are still very narrow which makes them goofy looking.
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It's always interesting to see these forum subjects as people's opinions are always so wide ranging, but it's fun to see what motorsport fans want.
The one thing that occurred to me last night was the F1 model itself. NASCAR and Indycar for example are geared for entertainment. This years Indycar was based upon what fans wanted. Then Dallara was given the job of trying to create a car that produced the goods.
The issue F1 has is it's more a business now than ever before. That's not to say Indycar or NASCAR is not serious motorsport but F1 is dominated by the manufacturers to a much larger extent.
Some of the blame of course must lie at Bernie's door but also John Todt who comes across as being an easy walkover whenever the manufacturers want something done their way.
As mentioned a few times on here already. The manufacturers are in this to promote their brand and image and to show off what they can do technically.
The current crop of cars are incredible technical marvels, but does your average F1 viewer care about this though? Probably not. They just want to see their driver or team win.
The one thing that occurred to me last night was the F1 model itself. NASCAR and Indycar for example are geared for entertainment. This years Indycar was based upon what fans wanted. Then Dallara was given the job of trying to create a car that produced the goods.
The issue F1 has is it's more a business now than ever before. That's not to say Indycar or NASCAR is not serious motorsport but F1 is dominated by the manufacturers to a much larger extent.
Some of the blame of course must lie at Bernie's door but also John Todt who comes across as being an easy walkover whenever the manufacturers want something done their way.
As mentioned a few times on here already. The manufacturers are in this to promote their brand and image and to show off what they can do technically.
The current crop of cars are incredible technical marvels, but does your average F1 viewer care about this though? Probably not. They just want to see their driver or team win.
I generally approve of what you are saying here with the rules you have it would take it more back to the 1970s in terms of things but that was when men were men and no silly BS with electronics happened, all the stuff now is kids play make these cars a handful to drive and also what about wheel base too that should be limited too
I think all this comparison with American series is not useful. The problem is that F1 is much more interesting for sponsors, so a lot more money flows in.
As a result you will always see F1 cars optimized the heck out of. You cannot make the "problem" go away that sponsors are willing to put 10x the money in.
The way to go for enabling lower budget teams and have more variety IMHO:
As a result you will always see F1 cars optimized the heck out of. You cannot make the "problem" go away that sponsors are willing to put 10x the money in.
The way to go for enabling lower budget teams and have more variety IMHO:
- Every aspect of engineering must be driven into a zone of diminishing return for investment very quickly. Right now that doesn't work for the power unit. The team that was ahead once stays on top because they get the same return for future investments. You need to lower the return for further investments of teams that are on top already.
- Makes aero and chassis relevant again. Right now the opposite problem is true in aero and chassis: everybody is in a point of very low return for investment. Even the most advanced teams employing Adrian Newey cannot change the car in a way that it makes a scratch in the engines' dominance.
- So you need to allow more freedom in aero and chassic again, and you need to put some restrictions on power units, and those must be restrictions that allow new ideas.
- If you do it right people can pick whether they want to invest in engine or chassis. Right now they cannot. Investment in chassis are useless, investments in engine are not likely to give you an on-part engine.
- As I said earlier, some electronics should come back. They are cheap and can make a difference. Ride high leveling in particular will also enable the aero people to do better things, and make things safer because new aero won't make the car take off unexpectedly.
Paul, You pretty much nailed it!
Longer braking distance, engines without hybrid tech (leave that to F E.) Tyres that don't leave marbles so that a driver can move off line to make a pass, no aero frilly bits all over the car and as you said spec. wings.
IMPO hybrid has killed P1 and will kill F1 too!
Longer braking distance, engines without hybrid tech (leave that to F E.) Tyres that don't leave marbles so that a driver can move off line to make a pass, no aero frilly bits all over the car and as you said spec. wings.
IMPO hybrid has killed P1 and will kill F1 too!
Formula one has been broken for a long time IMO. Personally I am happy watching it (casually) for what it is, but I am way more excited for IndyCar, Aussie Supercars and the various Sportscar championships than f1 these days. Liberty has some good ideas for how to grow the sport, and they have some terrible ideas too, but I would say, somewhat controversially, that the main thing that f1 should do is to let Ferrari and Mercedes walk out the next time they threaten to. No team should be able to hold the betterment of the sport hostage, not even the mighty Scuderia Ferrari
M-Bimmer
WhAt GoEs ArOuNd CoMeS ArOuNd
If one would look at it from a different perspective then the new F1 TV app might make things interesting (in the mean while) since you will the one in total control of the content.... Who to watch and when....Create your own view (More than one driver at a time or a live view and a driver at the same time).
And as a plus, subscribers will be able to watch live races of F2, GP3, porsche supercup.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...-a-live-grand-prix-subscription-service.html#
Since we usually do not pop up in every race, we are all today stuck on what the producers think is interesting so we are not in control on what or how to watch and this is sometimes boring.
If i’d keep the same prospective, then the sport should be fair to all, having no budget or resource limit is impossible for smaller teams so something could be done to prevent that.
And as a plus, subscribers will be able to watch live races of F2, GP3, porsche supercup.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...-a-live-grand-prix-subscription-service.html#
Since we usually do not pop up in every race, we are all today stuck on what the producers think is interesting so we are not in control on what or how to watch and this is sometimes boring.
If i’d keep the same prospective, then the sport should be fair to all, having no budget or resource limit is impossible for smaller teams so something could be done to prevent that.
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I am no one to complain primarly about sound, but this aspect is why fuel-regulations basically drop out already. The best race engine is one tuned to max power. That's why all engines after 2006 sounded **** (excluding the unlimited 2006 V8s from that that potentially revved up to 22,000 RPM, until dropping it to 19,000 in 2007) and Le Mans isn't the best example either.
It's actually really hard to flesh out good rules and consider all negative and positive effects it could have, that's also part of why it takes long for the FIA to change things. But it is easy to point out maximes in the rule making process.
I just think Formula 1 needs to focus on a more open construction field, less penalties during the races (even things like the Grosjean bump from Interlagos last year, it was a damn driving error) and stop trying to work on overtaking or cutting costs. None of these things ever worked and it did not result in favourable things.
It's actually really hard to flesh out good rules and consider all negative and positive effects it could have, that's also part of why it takes long for the FIA to change things. But it is easy to point out maximes in the rule making process.
I just think Formula 1 needs to focus on a more open construction field, less penalties during the races (even things like the Grosjean bump from Interlagos last year, it was a damn driving error) and stop trying to work on overtaking or cutting costs. None of these things ever worked and it did not result in favourable things.
When it comes to overtaking, IMHO nobody can help coming up with a good set of regulations other than the best aerodynamics engineers.
And those will tell you that whatever they come up with will show weaknesses for a couple seasons. That's just realism. Given the help from computational flow analysis letting them suggest rules that help overtaking would be a huge step forward compared to everybody else.
FIA would have to either hire them, get them on loan from the teams, or something along those lines.
And those will tell you that whatever they come up with will show weaknesses for a couple seasons. That's just realism. Given the help from computational flow analysis letting them suggest rules that help overtaking would be a huge step forward compared to everybody else.
FIA would have to either hire them, get them on loan from the teams, or something along those lines.
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