In my opinion part of the experience of spectating Motorsport events is hearing the noise of the engines and getting a whiff of exhaust fumes. Electric would take that experience away for me. I agree that something needs to be done though from an environmental point of view. I just don't know if electric power is the answer.
Have Your Say: Is The Future Electric?
- Thread starter Paul Jeffrey
- Start date
D
Deleted member 6919
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Deleted member 6919
Lets hope PCars don't do the audio for some cars..
History has a habit of repeating itself
1903
Cars? No, no, they simply won’t catch on …
The British MP, John Douglas-Scott-Montagu, who was, interestingly, one of the great early pioneers of motoring in the UK, famously said:
"I do not believe the introduction of motorcars will ever affect the riding of horses"
It was an assessment many of his colleagues shared, though some were less enthusiastic than him when it came to cars. When he first rolled up to the Houses of Parliament in his novel contraption, it is said that he was told that this was not a gentleman’s way to travel.
1913
So we were wrong about cars …Within a decade, however, horses had swiftly been replaced by cars. No-one saw this coming. Predicting the impact of new technologies, like the internal combustion engine or the moving assembly line, is hard to do.
Technology changes things, in ways you can’t imagine. And you have to go with it. Move with the times. You can no longer be that guy in the horse-drawn carriage.
From <https://www.inmotionventures.com/movement-disrupted/>
1903
Cars? No, no, they simply won’t catch on …
The British MP, John Douglas-Scott-Montagu, who was, interestingly, one of the great early pioneers of motoring in the UK, famously said:
"I do not believe the introduction of motorcars will ever affect the riding of horses"
It was an assessment many of his colleagues shared, though some were less enthusiastic than him when it came to cars. When he first rolled up to the Houses of Parliament in his novel contraption, it is said that he was told that this was not a gentleman’s way to travel.
1913
So we were wrong about cars …Within a decade, however, horses had swiftly been replaced by cars. No-one saw this coming. Predicting the impact of new technologies, like the internal combustion engine or the moving assembly line, is hard to do.
Technology changes things, in ways you can’t imagine. And you have to go with it. Move with the times. You can no longer be that guy in the horse-drawn carriage.
From <https://www.inmotionventures.com/movement-disrupted/>
anthony monteil
Sector3 Studios
Let's be realistic, that will never be the same as a real engine and exhaust.
All these fake sounds are just boring, and for some reason, only the soundchip + HP idea makes me sad...
At least, personnally, I'm not interested by this kind of job and I hope I'll keep creating noisy engine sounds for long.
This is the bright side of simulators, we can run all kind of noisy machines, cars, planes, etc with no guilt
Electric road cars are 100% the future. It's coming and it'll be here soon.
Electric race cars? Well, not so sure. Motorsport has to be entertaining to be sustainable. Most sports have to have some sort of audience to exist. Will electric motorsports be popular? Not so sure.
What motorsport CAN do is go down the hydrogen internal combustion route (no fuel cell). That would keep the noise and spectacle that we're all so in love with. Hydrogen isn't a particularly good solution for a road car because of how inefficient it is to produce it. But for a race car, that's completely fine. And it can be done cleanly.
IMO: Road cars should go electric. Race cars should go hydrogen internal combustion.
Edit: it is very silly to say things like "endurance racing will never go electric". Why not? Because it currently can't do it? Why couldn't you do 40 minute stints (which is around LMP2 length) and then do a quick change battery swap? That tech already exists, it just hasn't been adapted to motorsports yet. So endurance racing on electric power is certainly possible in the not to distant future. It isn't particularly interesting to me, but it is possible.
Electric race cars? Well, not so sure. Motorsport has to be entertaining to be sustainable. Most sports have to have some sort of audience to exist. Will electric motorsports be popular? Not so sure.
What motorsport CAN do is go down the hydrogen internal combustion route (no fuel cell). That would keep the noise and spectacle that we're all so in love with. Hydrogen isn't a particularly good solution for a road car because of how inefficient it is to produce it. But for a race car, that's completely fine. And it can be done cleanly.
IMO: Road cars should go electric. Race cars should go hydrogen internal combustion.
Edit: it is very silly to say things like "endurance racing will never go electric". Why not? Because it currently can't do it? Why couldn't you do 40 minute stints (which is around LMP2 length) and then do a quick change battery swap? That tech already exists, it just hasn't been adapted to motorsports yet. So endurance racing on electric power is certainly possible in the not to distant future. It isn't particularly interesting to me, but it is possible.
For people saying "fans of the past wont watch but the future ones will" need to remember biggest part of this sport is passed from fathers to sons, if potential fathers leave you can say bye bye to huge part of the audience, this is happening already, every new gen there is less fans of motorports. IndyCar is a great example of this also, when the adults left due to all the crap that happened the potential future fans (kids) were not exposed to the sport.
MoerasGrizzly
Premium
I see you. I raise you this:
Sure, Formula E doesn't nearly sound as good as F1 does, and certainly not as good as the venerable Blancpain does, but the racing on Formula E has, for the last two seasons, been far more exciting then anything F1 has thrown up.
I don't believe electric cars are The Future.
For starters the petrol makers will not sit idly by and allow all the greenies to destroy their plans to keep oil based fuels around for the next 5+ decades. They will lobby their respective political parties like never before, and political donations hold much weight to a cash strapped government, no matter what country they govern.
As far as Atmospheric Warming goes (the globe/planet is actually cooling) it's a natural phenomena of our living planet.
Science has proven to a point, that the reason we are seeing many of these weather events globally is not solely based on human consumption of fossil fuels, but moreso the massive uncontrolled clearing of forests and jungles world wide over the past 30yrs, which is the true cause of Atmospheric Warming.
Trees/plants are the life blood of the planet and all that inhabit it, without trees/plants we will suffocate the planet, and all on it, in CO2, trees/plants are the key to reducing global warming, not the reduction of fossil fuels, as they would like us to believe, trees/plants actually lock CO2 up in the timber in the form of carbon it's part of a plants/trees function. If you look at the fact 3,721million hectares of trees are cut down in a year globally, to pave the way for plantations, farms, housing estates etc, the reduction in CO2 to Oxygen conversion is growing at alarming rates.
Do not be fooled by the Global Warming con put forth by the UN & governments who are guilty of lies and deceit, when the UN commissioned some 100 environmental scientists to conduct a global study of the alleged threat of global warming, they weren't happy with all they learned, and when it came to publishing this info, they only published certain data, this raised the eyebrow of some of the scientists who were part of the study, these scientist's released their own findings which contradicted the UN's publications that Global Warming was/is a major threat.
Also, to add weight to this lets look at some rarely talked about facts.
1 volcano can spew forth more CO2 in a single eruption than we can put out in 10 years of fossil fuel use. There are 6 active volcanoes that we can observe releasing millions of tons of CO2, there are many more below the oceans that can not be monitored, but still emit hundreds of tons of CO2 daily.
Then there's the thawing of frozen tundra in Russia and Canada, which give off tons of methane gas, and lets not forget the 1.468 billion cattle world wide that also give off hundreds of tons of methane gas daily.
Remember the Ozone holes, don't hear about that any more do you, because it was a natural event that has it's own life cycle, same as El Nino & Le Nino weather systems, natural global events, same as the ice ages of which there has been several.
All I can say is, Don't be taken in by all this global warming doom and gloom BS, sure, we need to clean up our act as the dominant animal on this planet, but this global warming hype is no different than the Y2K bug, someone is set to profit hugely from it, electric cars are part of the hype.
If the powers that be were truly serious about global warming, solar power plants would be getting built everywhere, and coal fired power would be closed down asap, but how else do you recharge your electric car?
Sorry for the epic post
While you have some correct points in your post, it kinda leaves a bad taste overall. The general scientific consensus is that the "industry" (read it as releasing bad stuff into the atmosphere) does in fact increase the average atmospheric temperature at an accelerating rate. The natural cycle you are talking about exists, but I haven't studied it at all, so I can't make myself comment about it.
Ozone holes are healing because freons were banned. It wasn't just some hype event that naturally got resolved.
The problem from this point of view is that the industry follows money, not science. Rainforests are being destroyed as we speak, because business. If the industry united to help Earth, we wouldn't need to act so quickly. And keep in mind that the effects aren't the same on every point of the planet. You might not feel it, disregard it, while others might suffer.
Regarding the topic, changing motorsports into all electric is such a small change. Road cars, sure, they have a much larger effect. I can see a future, where science will have a bigger effect on the industry, we go much greener in every aspect, even stop the climate change and stabilize it. In that future, such a small element as ICEs in motorsports should not have a huge effect, if practically any, and could be allowed.
Strong opposers of electric cars in motorsports, please keep in mind that racing 10-20 years after developing the first ICEs wasn't so thrilling, magical and quick either. Just have an open mind
I can't believe we have supposedly smart people here who claim man made global warming is not real, when eve big oil and car companies not accept it. When you have GM saying they want to move to 100% renewable and clean power sources by 2050, you know something is up. Even Exxon Mobil, one of the largest oil producing corporations in the world agrees man made climate change is real.
(BTW, a lot of oil companies also own windfarms. E.On, Statoil, Petrofac, Tailisman are all running quite large ones in the UK - forward thinking oil producers are moving to renewables nice and early).
People are correct if they the Earth naturally has cooling and heating cycles which are not man made. However if you'd like a graph to demonstrate why this is not one of those cycles, then here's quite a good one.
https://xkcd.com/1732/
In the last 150 years the Earths temperature has increased in magnitude, to a level that previously took the Earth 1500 years. It doesn't take a mathematical or scientific genius to look at the data and say "Something is going on right now".
(BTW, a lot of oil companies also own windfarms. E.On, Statoil, Petrofac, Tailisman are all running quite large ones in the UK - forward thinking oil producers are moving to renewables nice and early).
People are correct if they the Earth naturally has cooling and heating cycles which are not man made. However if you'd like a graph to demonstrate why this is not one of those cycles, then here's quite a good one.
https://xkcd.com/1732/
In the last 150 years the Earths temperature has increased in magnitude, to a level that previously took the Earth 1500 years. It doesn't take a mathematical or scientific genius to look at the data and say "Something is going on right now".
I'll believe global warming in the day people that support it takes the part that says "less people on earth would help to reduce global warming" serious and they all jump from a bridge to help the planet. #Respect
Batteries....
All you people that love and want E Cars on the streets and tracks, could you please answer my questions?
Are you happy that one of the main ingredients for e-car batteries is mined using child slave labour in Africa?
Question for the Americans; Are you happy that China is the main manufacturer of the e-car batteries, meaning if the Chinese control the market, they can dictate the price? (Just like Saudi Arabia etc..does with oil).
Question for the Europeans; Are you happy that your governments lied to you about how safe and clean diesel was/is?
Which was all done for political and financial gains, not for our benefit.
Surely your government is not telling you lies and half truths again, just for political and financial gain again?
The main cause of all dirty air within every large city around the world is, the Diesel engine.
The Diesel engine that they, the governments, have spent years convincing us to change to.
Remember when diesel was cheaper than petrol?
Remember the tax incentives?
Remember when you could walk in a city and when you got home, you did not have to pick black lumps from your nose, just to breathe easy again?
Lung cancer deaths in the western world are not going down, yet less people smoke.
People who have never smoked, are getting lung cancer.
The government says it must be 'second-hand smoke from smokers'.
Really..
Nothing to do with the black lumps coming out of your nose...
Nothing to do with black stuff lining your lungs..
Your government convinced you.
Motorsport helped.
Audi Le Mans race car, the one that was diesel...
Pretty sure that helped Audi sell more diesel cars to rightly proud Germans...
We all want cleaner air in our cities, so ban Diesel engine powered vehicles from them.
Very simple.
The argument against the petrol engine, was the concept of 'global warming'.
Hence the rush for Diesel engines.
'Global warming' was based on a computer program that could predict the weather patterns years into the future.
A computer program.
We cannot predict the weather with a 100% accuracy for tomorrow, let alone in 10 years time, however that does not seem to matter..
And of course it would be silly of me to suggest that people would create a program, to create a problem that does not exist. You know, just to sell you stuff, or to tax you more.. No that is silly..
In the 1970's it was 'Global cooling'.
By now, as in today, the whole world would be covered in ice.
It is not.
Mr Gore was telling us a few years ago, that by now, as in today, the polar ice caps would of gone.
They are still there.
There are changes in the climate around the world.
It is the same thing that has always caused it.
The sun.
Not us, not the fish, not the apes, not the dung beetles...
The sun.
And not the car.
This whole 'Global warming' con is how we have ended up here, chatting about e-cars.
Some people believe without question the cult of 'Global warming', hence why some people are rather passionate about the subject.
Divide and conquer, that is the game that is being played.
E-cars are not the answer, we the people, are the answer.
Lobby to ban diesel cars, now.
Demand public transport.
Demand cars free zones in your cities.
Try walking..
Try a bike..
Oh, and ask the e-car racers, is child labour used in making their batteries?
'Racing' e-cars is part of reprogramming the masses, nothing more, nothing less.
If you don't get it, they have got you..
All you people that love and want E Cars on the streets and tracks, could you please answer my questions?
Are you happy that one of the main ingredients for e-car batteries is mined using child slave labour in Africa?
Question for the Americans; Are you happy that China is the main manufacturer of the e-car batteries, meaning if the Chinese control the market, they can dictate the price? (Just like Saudi Arabia etc..does with oil).
Question for the Europeans; Are you happy that your governments lied to you about how safe and clean diesel was/is?
Which was all done for political and financial gains, not for our benefit.
Surely your government is not telling you lies and half truths again, just for political and financial gain again?
The main cause of all dirty air within every large city around the world is, the Diesel engine.
The Diesel engine that they, the governments, have spent years convincing us to change to.
Remember when diesel was cheaper than petrol?
Remember the tax incentives?
Remember when you could walk in a city and when you got home, you did not have to pick black lumps from your nose, just to breathe easy again?
Lung cancer deaths in the western world are not going down, yet less people smoke.
People who have never smoked, are getting lung cancer.
The government says it must be 'second-hand smoke from smokers'.
Really..
Nothing to do with the black lumps coming out of your nose...
Nothing to do with black stuff lining your lungs..
Your government convinced you.
Motorsport helped.
Audi Le Mans race car, the one that was diesel...
Pretty sure that helped Audi sell more diesel cars to rightly proud Germans...
We all want cleaner air in our cities, so ban Diesel engine powered vehicles from them.
Very simple.
The argument against the petrol engine, was the concept of 'global warming'.
Hence the rush for Diesel engines.
'Global warming' was based on a computer program that could predict the weather patterns years into the future.
A computer program.
We cannot predict the weather with a 100% accuracy for tomorrow, let alone in 10 years time, however that does not seem to matter..
And of course it would be silly of me to suggest that people would create a program, to create a problem that does not exist. You know, just to sell you stuff, or to tax you more.. No that is silly..
In the 1970's it was 'Global cooling'.
By now, as in today, the whole world would be covered in ice.
It is not.
Mr Gore was telling us a few years ago, that by now, as in today, the polar ice caps would of gone.
They are still there.
There are changes in the climate around the world.
It is the same thing that has always caused it.
The sun.
Not us, not the fish, not the apes, not the dung beetles...
The sun.
And not the car.
This whole 'Global warming' con is how we have ended up here, chatting about e-cars.
Some people believe without question the cult of 'Global warming', hence why some people are rather passionate about the subject.
Divide and conquer, that is the game that is being played.
E-cars are not the answer, we the people, are the answer.
Lobby to ban diesel cars, now.
Demand public transport.
Demand cars free zones in your cities.
Try walking..
Try a bike..
Oh, and ask the e-car racers, is child labour used in making their batteries?
'Racing' e-cars is part of reprogramming the masses, nothing more, nothing less.
If you don't get it, they have got you..
Durge Driven
DD
I thought it " a little too ironic " that year FIA declared themselves green with a new fuel then went out and ran a race under 1,500 lights that used 3MegaWatt besides the emissions created making the 24 generators to power them
Being serious can someone please explain to me how the environmental destructive processes used in mining for rare minerals needed to produce our PS4, PC and next gen Tesla battery is any better then fossil fuel
I know most think I crazy
I have longed to see F1 battled on a equal footing so do it before that means electric
Salary caps on everything: they worried about drivers safety spending big budget to test and study halos and let a driver get 150 grand who risks his life exactly the same
I don't know how Alonso and others getting millions can look at him p
Cheaper less tech cars
Cheaper Control power-plants ( I can hear the moaning from here l ) , big engines, big sound
Tracks with safe runoff but less forgiving of driver-error
Mixture of GP length at best classic tracks and others races with Sprint formats 2/3 races day/night
Reverse grid-spots, ballast ........
Whatever it takes to make racing as tight as possible, well at least so the fastest and slowest race in the same universe
Being serious can someone please explain to me how the environmental destructive processes used in mining for rare minerals needed to produce our PS4, PC and next gen Tesla battery is any better then fossil fuel
I know most think I crazy
I have longed to see F1 battled on a equal footing so do it before that means electric
Salary caps on everything: they worried about drivers safety spending big budget to test and study halos and let a driver get 150 grand who risks his life exactly the same
I don't know how Alonso and others getting millions can look at him p
Cheaper less tech cars
Cheaper Control power-plants ( I can hear the moaning from here l ) , big engines, big sound
Tracks with safe runoff but less forgiving of driver-error
Mixture of GP length at best classic tracks and others races with Sprint formats 2/3 races day/night
Reverse grid-spots, ballast ........
Whatever it takes to make racing as tight as possible, well at least so the fastest and slowest race in the same universe
Actually Tesla imports no ingredients from China.
The Tesla Gigfactory is due to become the largest exporter of lithium ion batteries in the world. The gigafactory is built in America, by Americans, and gives Americans jobs. It will produce more batteries than the rest of the world combined.
No I'm not happy about it. Doesn't make electric cars any worse though.. This actually forms a good argument for electric cars - diesels weren't as good as what was said. You should also throw some blame at car manufacturers who lied and manipulated data that was fed to the governments though.
No actually. Diesel is usually more expensive because it is more expensive to refine. Diesel has more energy storage in it than petrol, which is why refining it is more expensive. In the UK, diesel is now equal to petrol in price, but largely because Saudi Arabia has been overproducing diesel recently.
Nobody in the history of ever, argued we should move to diesel for global warming. It was meant to improve air conditions locally because increased mileage and potentially cleaner burning would reduce output. It was never meant to solve global warming, it was meant to help a little bit.
Wat.
No it wouldn't. See the graph up. But if it was, then you're making a REALLY good argument for global warming being real. "We should be covered in ice! And we aren't! Global Warming isn't real!" Sorry, what?
You are kidding right?
Jesus tap dancing christ, this is a depressing thread. This isn't even opinion based stuff. This is just scientific ignorance. Exxon Mobil says global warming is real, and yet here we have people saying "It's the sun"..
Ghoults
Lasse Luisu
Haha, nope.
Why should it matter? You can not predict every lap time in a race "100% accurately" either but you can still make accurate predictions how the lap times evolve over the race.
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