Misc GTR2 16th Anniversary PATCH Part-1 16.0.0

[The Iron Wolf]

May we get the link to that discord ? ^^

It's in the first post of project thread: https://thecrewchief.org/showthread...Setup-Instructions-Known-Issues-and-Changelog

 

[erba72]

Regarding the AI, It seems that no matter what mod, they still get stuck very easely behind slower cars in multi class, just to eventlually drive into the slower class car. This happens a lot, with SHO AI, the HQ AI, or others. I see in the RCD talents files, that there is a "passing" line; what does it corresponds to ? Will increasing this value make them overtake easier and therfore crashing into each other less ?

 

[GTR233]

Regarding the AI, It seems that no matter what mod, they still get stuck very easely behind slower cars in multi class, just to eventlually drive into the slower class car. This happens a lot, with SHO AI, the HQ AI, or others. I see in the RCD talents files, that there is a "passing" line; what does it corresponds to ? Will increasing this value make them overtake easier and therfore crashing into each other less ?

Careful with what you call "AI" in GTR2 : you seem to think that AI settings is only the TALENT RCD but you are far from reality
Indeed AI settings are everywhere in PLR, RCD, HDC, AIW, GDB, TYR etc...
So to make a comparison you must not only compare RCD files !
To get full AI tweaks from SHO, AFSC, REBORN, NAP, HQ22 you MUST select the same set at each page :
- xxxvii for RCD, set SHO
- xxxviii for aiw,gdb,hdc, set SHO
- ixl for tyres, SHO has not tyre set yet so choose vanilla to complete SHO AI.
then make a test on any HQ track (any other track will not be AI tweaked by the AI set you have chosen but only HQ!)

Then redo the 3 pages by changing AI mode to AFSC by example and make a test on same HQ track.

Then redo with another mode.

Plus you can modulate AI behaviour via menu with 2 parameters :
- aggressivity from timid to psychotic
- strength from 80 or 100 to 120%

At the end of test your experience must be quite different.

 

[Curratum]

I installed the mod for the first time today and while I did thoroughly enjoy the detailed selection process and the wonderful ingame changes, I did not find a way to NOT install HQ versions of the cars, so the car selection screen only shows the vanilla cars.

Am I doing something wrong? There was an option to install HQ tracks, but I never saw one asking for HQ cars.

 

[erba72]

@GTR233 Okay I will try all that, thanks. Because I was trying on Magny-Cours, it really seems to be a struggle for the AI to get overtakes done even when there is more than enough space.
Also, could you have a look at the physics mod posted on RD here not long ago ? The link is on page 23 of this thread. I drive with it on my non HQ GTR2 and it's really very good.
The only problem is that I would have to implement those physics but still using improved AI mod and HQ settings for cars and tracks. That's just a matter of a lot of copy/paste though
By the way, which AI mod do you think is the best ?

 

[erba72]

I installed the mod for the first time today and while I did thoroughly enjoy the detailed selection process and the wonderful ingame changes, I did not find a way to NOT install HQ versions of the cars, so the car selection screen only shows the vanilla cars.

Am I doing something wrong? There was an option to install HQ tracks, but I never saw one asking for HQ cars.

Have a look at page XXXIII

 

[MJQT]

Regarding the AI, It seems that no matter what mod, they still get stuck very easely behind slower cars in multi class, just to eventlually drive into the slower class car. This happens a lot, with SHO AI, the HQ AI, or others. I see in the RCD talents files, that there is a "passing" line; what does it corresponds to ? Will increasing this value make them overtake easier and therfore crashing into each other less ?

As GTR223 says, the Passing parameter is one of many in an arsenal of tricks that could help with the faster cars slamming into the slower ones when trying to pass. Hence why I started this website – there are so many pieces in the AI puzzle

But the faster class cars "getting stuck" is a more fundamental isiMotor2 bug. A really game-breaking one e.g. if you want to drive long multiclass races in the top class in GTR2. isiMotor AI cars don't know how to drive by another car in a straight line. They're fundamentally not programmed to do it. If you watch carefully, they can wander in and out of the draft, but fall back in line unless there's a bend in the road – at which point they chuck it in, usually by outbraking. Not only does this mean faster cars lose loads of time in a straight line (meaning the player can gain loads of undeserved time on the AI, and thus ruining the fun of these races) but this can lead to them trying stupid moves and slamming into the slower cars.

Other than maybe some very crafty hacks through the Crew Chief improvements, this issue isn't something any file tweak can fix, sadly. This bug is actually why I haven't played GTR2 much with the default content recently. I personally much prefer the feel of driving the GT cars over the NGTs, and my preferred GTR2 experience would be to run endurance multiclass against AI with mid race saves and emulate the real FIA GT seasons and bully slower traffic.

Unless a miracle fix comes along, for good racing, IMO your best experience with GTR2 today will come running single class races.

 

[erba72]

As GTR223 says, the Passing parameter is one of many in an arsenal of tricks that could help with the faster cars slamming into the slower ones when trying to pass. Hence why I started this website – there are so many pieces in the AI puzzle

But the faster class cars "getting stuck" is a more fundamental isiMotor2 bug. A really game-breaking one e.g. if you want to drive long multiclass races in the top class in GTR2. isiMotor AI cars don't know how to drive by another car in a straight line. They're fundamentally not programmed to do it. If you watch carefully, they can wander in and out of the draft, but fall back in line unless there's a bend in the road – at which point they chuck it in, usually by outbraking. Not only does this mean faster cars lose loads of time in a straight line (meaning the player can gain loads of undeserved time on the AI, and thus ruining the fun of these races) but this can lead to them trying stupid moves and slamming into the slower cars.

Other than maybe some very crafty hacks through the Crew Chief improvements, this issue isn't something any file tweak can fix, sadly. This bug is actually why I haven't played GTR2 much with the default content recently. I personally much prefer the feel of driving the GT cars over the NGTs, and my preferred GTR2 experience would be to run endurance multiclass against AI with mid race saves and emulate the real FIA GT seasons and bully slower traffic.

Unless a miracle fix comes along, for good racing, IMO your best experience with GTR2 today will come running single class races.

Ah dman it, I understand many things now. In my latest test race I just witnessed a Saleen yeet a 996 Porsche out of the way in the second fast right-left chicane at Magny-Cours. Aren't GTR Evolution and rFacor 1 having the same type of issue aswell ?

EDIT: So there are others famous issues which would be basically unfixable, like brake stabbing or slow start and first lap in the race then ?

 

[The Iron Wolf]

hacks through the Crew Chief improvements, this issue isn't something any file tweak can fix, sadly.

will try for sure as I enjoy multiclass, but, there are limits how much I can figure out without the source code...

BTW, for those who race GTR2: plugin already implements multiclass features. Additional Data pages are multiclass aware. And, GTR233 kindly added this capability to HQ cars.

 

[MJQT]

Aren't GTR Evolution and rFacor 1 having the same type of issue aswell ?

Precisely. rF1, RACE 07, GTR 2. AMS 1 as well, although Reiza implemented some fixes that alleviate the issue somewhat.

EDIT: So there are others famous issues which would be basically unfixable, like brake stabbing or slow start and first lap in the race then ?

Unfixable, probably, but also can be reduced. Shovas has done lots of careful work trying to alleviate those issues you mention with his AI mod, so I would monitor that mod for further improvements to those issues.

BTW, for those who race GTR2: plugin already implements multiclass features. Additional Data pages are multiclass aware. And, GTR233 kindly added this capability to HQ cars.

Fantastic. Great work!

will try for sure as I enjoy multiclass, but, there are limits how much I can figure out without the source code...

Just to be clear, that wasn't a request or anything! I don't mean to pressure you to go one way or another with your work. I know you don't want people doing that.

Actually, anyway, your current fiddling with rF1 plugins in GTR 2 is probably the best place to start. Since that rF1 AI Improvement plugin (even if now broken) should offer clues as to what could be done. And since it's in Java, it could be decompiled! Anyway, if I start investigating this, I'll discuss in the CC Improvements Discord, not further cluttering this thread.

 

[The Iron Wolf]

Just to be clear, that wasn't a request or anything! I don't mean to pressure you to go one way or another with your work. I know you don't want people doing that

thank you for understanding, and I did not take it as request - just wanted to share I crave better multiclass as well, and may attempt some tweaks in the future That said, I do not find multiclass in GTR2 entirely unusable, so this is not a high priority.

 

[erba72]

will try for sure as I enjoy multiclass, but, there are limits how much I can figure out without the source code...

BTW, for those who race GTR2: plugin already implements multiclass features. Additional Data pages are multiclass aware. And, GTR233 kindly added this capability to HQ cars.

What if we just ask for the source code ? I mean isiMotor2 is abandonware now basically so you never know.

But do you mean that the crewchief plug in implements better AI multi class behavior ? Could you explain a bit more please ? I'm interested to know what you meant ^^

 

[The Iron Wolf]

What if we just ask for the source code ? I mean isiMotor2 is abandonware now basically so you never know.

But do you mean that the crewchief plug in implements better AI multi class behavior ? Could you explain a bit more please ? I'm interested to know what you meant ^^

Currently, plugin does not contain enhancements that change AI multi class behavior. Plugin adds new Motec screen capabilities, including new Data Pages. Those data pages are multiclass aware. Which means, that gap ahead will display gap to next car in class etc. The link I sent earlier includes all the information about what plugin currently is capable of.

 

[erba72]

Currently, plugin does not contain enhancements that change AI multi class behavior. Plugin adds new Motec screen capabilities, including new Data Pages. Those data pages are multiclass aware. Which means, that gap ahead will display gap to next car in class etc. The link I sent earlier includes all the information about what plugin currently is capable of.

Ah okay thank you that makes sense

 

[erba72]

After comparing with my non HQ GTR 2 and my HQ patched GTR 2 and many tests, I still have a force feedback problem. It doesn't matter which physics I use, and I even use the same physics for both versions now. I also use the same .PLR settings from SHO FFB. In my non HQ version, the FFB feels normal, as it should be. But in the HQ version, it feels like the force feedback comes back on and off as I turn, and will make a 'clac" noise and feel.
I made the test of weaving at approx the same speed on both game versions and it was clear, on the HQ patched version, the FFB will typically turn down and come back on the left/right/left transitions, I can describe it as it unloads completely or almost, and then loads again, creating that "clac" sound and feel in the wheel.
There is clearly something f'ed up somewhere and I cannot put my finger on it. Do you think you could help me please ? Thanks in advance

 

[GTR233]

After comparing with my non HQ GTR 2 and my HQ patched GTR 2 and many tests, I still have a force feedback problem. It doesn't matter which physics I use, and I even use the same physics for both versions now. I also use the same .PLR settings from SHO FFB. In my non HQ version, the FFB feels normal, as it should be. But in the HQ version, it feels like the force feedback comes back on and off as I turn, and will make a 'clac" noise and feel.
I made the test of weaving at approx the same speed on both game versions and it was clear, on the HQ patched version, the FFB will typically turn down and come back on the left/right/left transitions, I can describe it as it unloads completely or almost, and then loads again, creating that "clac" sound and feel in the wheel.
There is clearly something f'ed up somewhere and I cannot put my finger on it. Do you think you could help me please ? Thanks in advance

still under [CONTROLS] try to lower steeringFFBMult to 0.9
or modify SteerLockSetting : default is 20 and I set it on 26 (I made a poll many years ago and most members preferred 26), maybe your wheel cannot support 26 so restore 20 and tell me to push hotfix #11

which profile do you use : novice, semipro, pro ? by default there are helps activated in novice so try semipro to deactivate steering help as it could be a cause.

Another difference is that I enabled under [DriveLine] the DiffPumpTorque which helps a lot on wet track, by default it is disabled =0 so try to disable it in hq hdc.

Other hdc settings will not modify wheel reaction as you described.

Maybe something in plr : copy all plr folder from working gtr2 in your hq gtr2 install to see if it helps.

 

[erba72]

still under [CONTROLS] try to lower steeringFFBMult to 0.9
or modify SteerLockSetting : default is 20 and I set it on 26 (I made a poll many years ago and most members preferred 26), maybe your wheel cannot support 26 so restore 20 and tell me to push hotfix #11

which profile do you use : novice, semipro, pro ? by default there are helps activated in novice so try semipro to deactivate steering help as it could be a cause.

Another difference is that I enabled under [DriveLine] the DiffPumpTorque which helps a lot on wet track, by default it is disabled =0 so try to disable it in hq hdc.

Other hdc settings will not modify wheel reaction as you described.

Maybe something in plr : copy all plr folder from working gtr2 in your hq gtr2 install to see if it helps.

I'll try the latter one, because as I said, I used the same car, same physics and same .plr file wheel and ffb settings for both versions. One thing to note, the problem is more or less important as I switch tyre model (only tyres were different, physics pod was still the same). For example it was worse with the reborn tyres. Is there anything in tyres that would the issue ?

 

[GTR233]

I will send you test files via pm and in french

 

[Papllock]

Hey man! I downloaded latest version but patch 2 and 3 doesn't work and I can't open with 7zip or Winrar. I tryed changing from writed .002 to .7zip and doesn' work.

 

[Papllock]

Hey man! I downloaded latest version but patch 2 and 3 doesn't work and I can't open with 7zip or Winrar. I tryed changing from writed .002 to .7zip and doesn' work.

OK, I read nothing wrong se readme