AC GT3 @ Laguna Seca - Sun 8 Sep 2019

Raresch · Sep 9, 2019

I have a question for all the racers: when you are behind someone and you brake and can't stop in time, which is the best course of action:
1. maintain your line, hit the one in front and wait for them after?
2. take evasive action not to hit the one in front? (sharply exiting the racing line on the exterior of the corner so you end up going further into the corner). Of course, this should be done if there is no other car on that side.
3. Brake harder and harder and go down through the gears lower than it should just to brake more. (still, this may end in the one of the above)

marek2209 · Sep 9, 2019

Oh man, I was prepared for some technical issues with VR, but not THIS

After quali, I went for a pee so I took off the HMD and placed it on a small chair next to my racing seat.. When I came back, the graphics perspective has moved to the ground and to the right side

I tried to fix that, but when the race session started it has even go worse: The camera was now outside the car, on the left side

Controls were also gone, so I even couldn't return to the pits or quit the game.. So I had to restart the PC.

Came back to the server nevertheless to practice racing in VR.. By the end of the race I felt more comfortably with it.
But the wearing comfort with that thing is also terrible (Samsung Odyssey+) - I've already ordered an additional head strap and correctional lenses, too.. A 75 minute race in VR and contact lenses is just a pain in the a**.
At least with the Samsung Odyssey+. I hope the head strap will give more comfort.
And I hope to fix the "technical" issues, otherwise I will probably go for a widescreen monitor.

Thanks @JoelK for hosting

Medilloni · Sep 9, 2019

Raresch said:
I have a question for all the racers: when you are behind someone and you brake and can't stop in time, which is the best course of action:
1. maintain your line, hit the one in front and wait for them after?
2. take evasive action not to hit the one in front? (sharply exiting the racing line on the exterior of the corner so you end up going further into the corner). Of course, this should be done if there is no other car on that side.
3. Brake harder and harder and go down through the gears lower than it should just to brake more. (still, this may end in the one of the above)

For us mere mortals there's not always the 'headroom' to avoid an accident, just practice 'n experience I guess

Personally I'll take any evasive action I can to not hit someone 'cos I die of guilt

If you're catching someone, or they've just overtaken you and it's close, then maybe brake slightly earlier than them and prioritise exit speed with a late apex - you'll be on the gas before them (in theory of course!) and you'll be closing on them down the next straight.

I had Aki behind me for a few laps so just concentrated on clean exits, slow in, fast out - I knew from the number of love taps I was getting under braking it might have been annoying, but it worked longer than it should have

On a serious note, with Aliens like Aki I don't like to drive too defensively 'cos we both lose time, 'first I want to finish', and as they go by you'll have chance to see their braking points and lines.

How's that for a Monday morning waffle

Raresch · Sep 9, 2019

Medilloni said:
Personally I'll take any evasive action I can to not hit someone 'cos I die of guilt

I know. That's why I try to take evasive action also. But it seemed there were very few that were doing that. But I guess it's racing and everyone is thinking different in that split second.

Kek700 · Sep 9, 2019

I am slower than you are @Raresch , but I am also at my limit, took me a lot of effort to get to where I am at the moment. I have no natural ability at this so it comes down to hard work. I have been lucky in life to have just one talent, I know what an advantage that is.
You just cannot explain it, it just is, it gives you a massive advantage over others. We tend to take defeat as a personal slight, but the reality is the person with the ability did not earn it, it was given. So knowing that, it really does not bother me at all. So I just work at it and accept the reality the situation.
Also knowing that the top of the pyramid is full of equally talented people, life for the talented is far from easy, only from your perspective.
You will find all the pleasure is in improving your self, I find the working hard bit the most enjoyable part.
If you notice I do not often qualify, just start from the back of the field, I find very little pleasure at being at the front, just sometimes do it as a change of scene.
The problem with sim racing, because it is virtual you just cannot see it, just the effect you see on the track or in data logging.
I have struggled to try and understand what’s going on and after two years still cannot give an exact answer.
But I have followed most of the fastest on this forum, I can say from my view it is always that last bit of peripheral speed they generate.
When you and I reach our limit, they seem to skilfully extract that little bit more, more precise braking, a little deeper into the corner, on the accelerator just a bit sooner and with more feel. Multiply that by 15 corners and you have your answer.
Just one other point bearing in mind, when I follow a quick driver, it is never all the corners that they are quicker, it is usually only maybe 3 or 4 corners, the ones that require more skill full commitment.
It is possible to develop that, so perhaps that would be a good starting point for some one who already is quick.
Unfortunately for the likes of you and I, it’s down to hard work. That again unfortunately means you have to accept bad days, not being able to rely on talent to see you and I through.
John and I have discussed this in some length, he has more talent than I have, but sometimes other factors create the difference between us both.
So, work hard and always look for an edge, against talented individuals that is mostly impossible, but certainly do able.
So for give my ramblings.

Sitting in Costa having a coffee.

.

Medilloni · Sep 9, 2019

Kek700 said:
I am slower than you are @Raresch , but I am also at my limit, took me a lot of effort to get to where I am at the moment. I have no natural ability at this so it comes down to hard work. I have been lucky in life to have just one talent, I know what an advantage that is.
You just cannot explain it, it just is, it gives you a massive advantage over others. We tend to take defeat as a personal slight, but the reality is the person with the ability did not earn it, it was given. So knowing that, it really does not bother me at all. So I just work at it and accept the reality the situation.
Also knowing that the top of the pyramid is full of equally talented people, life for the talented is far from easy, only from your perspective.
You will find all the pleasure is in improving your self, I find the working hard bit the most enjoyable part.
If you notice I do not often qualify, just start from the back of the field, I find very little pleasure at being at the front, just sometimes do it as a change of scene.
The problem with sim racing, because it is virtual you just cannot see it, just the effect you see on the track or in data logging.
I have struggled to try and understand what’s going on and after two years still cannot give an exact answer.
But I have followed most of the fastest on this forum, I can say from my view it is always that last bit of peripheral speed they generate.
When you and I reach our limit, they seem to skilfully extract that little bit more, more precise braking, a little deeper into the corner, on the accelerator just a bit sooner and with more feel. Multiply that by 15 corners and you have your answer.
Just one other point bearing in mind, when I follow a quick driver, it is never all the corners that they are quicker, it is usually only maybe 3 or 4 corners, the ones that require more skill full commitment.
It is possible to develop that, so perhaps that would be a good starting point for some one who already is quick.
Unfortunately for the likes of you and I, it’s down to hard work. That again unfortunately means you have to accept bad days, not being able to rely on talent to see you and I through.
John and I have discussed this in some length, he has more talent than I have, but sometimes other factors create the difference between us both.
So, work hard and always look for an edge, against talented individuals that is mostly impossible, but certainly do able.
So for give my ramblings.
Sitting in Costa having a coffee.
.

Damn, I wish I could have put it as succinctly as you just did Ernie, spot on. I'm having a coffee too, and as we're 'mature' members here, I can't get the picture of these two out of my mind

No offence buddy

Kek700 · Sep 9, 2019

Can’t stop laughing, one of those characters does look just like me...

Bugger, i cannot get it out of my mind as well.

Medilloni · Sep 9, 2019

Kek700 said:
Can’t stop laughing, one of those characters does look just like me...

Bugger, i cannot get it out of my mind as well.

....so tempted to change my forum name to Statler, if you'll go for Waldorf

Edit: Then I CAN say I drive like a muppet

Raresch · Sep 9, 2019

Kek700 said:
it is never all the corners that they are quicker, it is usually only maybe 3 or 4 corners, the ones that require more skill full commitment.

I see. Also, what I observed when I am lapped by the fast guys, they exit very well from the corners that lead to straights. And I just can't keep up.

Kek700 said:
Unfortunately for the likes of you and I, it’s down to hard work. That again unfortunately means you have to accept bad days, not being able to rely on talent to see you and I through.

Thank you very much for your support. I have to be more patient. And try to focus harder. Right now I don't know where I make mistakes. I mean, I kinda do, not hitting all the apexes, even if sometimes it feels faster that way ... I don't know. Maybe I just have to enter fewer races, not every day, and focus on beeing constant lap by lap.
I see a video of guys doing time X.XX and I do +2/3/4 seconds. I see them braking at marker 100m and they get to the apex, if I brake at that marker, I can't even make the corner or I don't make the apex. If I brake to make the apex, that will be 150m or something

Should I brake earlier to hit the apex and leave them to brake at 100 or should I brake later to have a little more speed on the straight but barely brushing, or not even touching the apex? I guess the apex is more important ...

Kek700 · Sep 9, 2019

Medilloni said:
....so tempted to change my forum name to Statler, if you'll go for Waldorf

Edit: Then I CAN say I drive like a muppet

So so tempting, and as you say, I will have a good excuse to drive like a muppet.

I will not though, get enough stick from the other duo , Bert and Ernie

GEO147 · Sep 9, 2019

Raresch said:
I see. Also, what I observed when I am lapped by the fast guys, they exit very well from the corners that lead to straights. And I just can't keep up.

Thank you very much for your support. I have to be more patient. And try to focus harder. Right now I don't know where I make mistakes. I mean, I kinda do, not hitting all the apexes, even if sometimes it feels faster that way ... I don't know. Maybe I just have to enter fewer races, not every day, and focus on beeing constant lap by lap.
I see a video of guys doing time X.XX and I do +2/3/4 seconds. I see them braking at marker 100m and they get to the apex, if I brake at that marker, I can't even make the corner or I don't make the apex. If I brake to make the apex, that will be 150m or something Should I brake earlier to hit the apex and leave them to brake at 100 or should I brake later to have a little more speed on the straight but barely brushing, or not even touching the apex? I guess the apex is more important ...

If you dont mind me saying I think you were quicker before you switched to the R8. You were always close to me on track, most times in front, but last couple of races I was ahead of you. You seem to be saying your not getting the car slowed down quick enough so would be worth while checking your pedals to make sure thay are calibrated right. Also, that your brake force isnt set too low in Assetto Corsa.

Guys like Joel know all the pros and cons of every car and they know exactly how to set it up for a particular track and how it will behave. Thats from years of experience and of course a huge amount of skill too.

I thought I was quick last night to get 11th, I spun once or twice cant remember and maybe could have got 8th or 9th without the big mistakes, but John was miles ahead of me in the race also in a 650s and I was throwing the 650 into a lot of corners (especially the very fast left hander)

There are definitely things we dont know about yet in terms of getting the very best out of the cars we are choosing in sim. But id be sure which one you want to drive every week before really getting into the setup aspects and I hear a lot that the Audi can be hard on the tyres.

JoelK · Sep 9, 2019

Raresch said:
@JoelK How can you be so fast? Same car, same-ish setup and you are 4-5-6-infinite seconds faster I just don't get. Maybe I just can't get faster.

I've raced the car on a league and on RD aswell at this track, so I've got a plenty of practice here. I've poured a huge amount of time learning to setup the car and IMO the only way you can get it right for yourself is to learn it by yourself. And also I've got 18,000 km's on the R8 so I know the car quite well.

You're getting there

Just have patience and it'll come at some point

Kek700 · Sep 9, 2019

Raresch said:
I see. Also, what I observed when I am lapped by the fast guys, they exit very well from the corners that lead to straights. And I just can't keep

I see a video of guys doing time X.XX and I do +2/3/4 seconds. I see them braking at marker 100m and they get to the apex, if I brake at that marker, I can't even make the corner or I don't make the apex. If I brake to make the apex, that will be 150m or something Should I brake earlier to hit the apex and leave them to brake at 100 or should I brake later to have a little more speed on the straight but barely brushing, or not even touching the apex? I guess the apex is more important ...

Braking is just part the the totally important execution of the corner, you really need to brake as
late as possible but with the process that follows braking in mind, they brake heavily at the 100m board with the addition of the corner entry added into the equation, constantly coming off the brakes as grip starts to diminish. ABS and diff should be used to their best advantage in this process.

No one can outbrake the brakes, physics will always out. If like me you do not have sufficient feel
then it is always going to be a challenge, that said, braking is not my problem, even after stating that.
beware of looking at replays, they are just not accurate, it’s MoTeC that gives reasonably accurate assessment, not replays.

My advice, do a lap of Brands Hatch with ( MoTeC ) in a Nissan GT-R gt3
https://www.racedepartment.com/thre...ad-of-setup-talk-at-rd-example-thread.168826/

All the information is there, when you have a fast lap, do not worry about your time, just your fastest Lap. I am sure @RasmusP will give you a quick appraisal of all the information that you need.

He can relate your drive to others of varying abilities.

Then if necessary, take one of your problems and ask for help on that specific problem.
There are so many here that will help.

The problem with this topic, it has such depth, no one has the time available to individually
cover it for you, but a single question is do-able.

As I said before, it has taken years of being in motor sport + 2 years of effort to change 6 seconds off the pace, to 1 or 2 seconds, relative to Racedepartment racing series.

You are far more forward than I was by a long way, unfortunately for me the muppet sim driving ability is always lurking in the back ground.

Raresch · Sep 9, 2019

GEO147 said:
If you dont mind me saying I think you were quicker before you switched to the R8

Hmm. I don't know what to say.

When I tried the 650s (once) I just couldn't cope with the Boost effect. Also, it felt too light for me.
When I tried the Nismo, tried until the last moment to make it steer but the understeer was killing me. So I switched to something else right before the race.
When I tried the Ferrari seemed like I was changing the gears like crazy when accelerating, even if I was with them at set at maximum for the top speed. Maybe the car was not good for that track? Also, the boost kills me.
I tried the SCG once. The sound was amazing but that will be all. Don't remember anything about it other than that. I think was alike the Ferrari?
Never tried the AMG and never will.
Never tried the 911 GT3. I raced the GT3 Cup version. Maybe not the same, but I really don't like that big pendulum effect of the Porsche.
Never drove the BMW Z4. Maybe I should? Does it have a boost? )
The Lambo felt nice for a couple of races. But it was fast on long straights, not really on twisted bits. Maybe I should go back to that?
The R8 feels good. Feels reactive. When I apply the throttle I don't have to wait for the boost to come. Although it slides pretty easily when you overdrive.

GEO147 said:
You seem to be saying your not getting the car slowed down quick enough so would be worth while checking your pedals to make sure thay are calibrated right. Also, that your brake force isnt set too low in Assetto Corsa.

Hmm. The brake pressure is fine. I use a G29. I changed the brake gamma to what RasmusP describes in his tutorial about G27/29, and set it to 1.55. It feels much better. That's when I jumped from 18-20 to 11-15 on the grid

) Or at least this is how it looked from my side. When I apply the full force, the brake shows that is 100%. It might be because the pedals are not fixed on a rigid based and are placed on a box? The box is pressing the wall, but it might slide here and there.

JoelK · Sep 9, 2019

Raresch said:
Hmm. I don't know what to say.

When I tried the 650s (once) I just couldn't cope with the Boost effect. Also, it felt too light for me.

When I tried the Nismo, tried until the last moment to make it steer but the understeer was killing me. So I switched to something else right before the race.

When I tried the Ferrari seemed like I was changing the gears like crazy when accelerating, even if I was with them at set at maximum for the top speed. Maybe the car was not good for that track? Also, the boost kills me.

I tried the SCG once. The sound was amazing but that will be all. Don't remember anything about it other than that. I think was alike the Ferrari?

Never tried the AMG and never will.

Never tried the 911 GT3. I raced the GT3 Cup version. Maybe not the same, but I really don't like that big pendulum effect of the Porsche.

Never drove the BMW Z4. Maybe I should? Does it have a boost? )

The Lambo felt nice for a couple of races. But it was fast on long straights, not really on twisted bits. Maybe I should go back to that?

The R8 feels good. Feels reactive. When I apply the throttle I don't have to wait for the boost to come. Although it slides pretty easily when you overdrive.

Hmm. The brake pressure is fine. I use a G29. I changed the brake gamma to what RasmusP describes in his tutorial about G27/29, and set it to 1.55. It feels much better. That's when I jumped from 18-20 to 11-15 on the grid ) Or at least this is how it looked from my side. When I apply the full force, the brake shows that is 100%. It might be because the pedals are not fixed on a rigid based and are placed on a box? The box is pressing the wall, but it might slide here and there.

I'm actually using 2.99 gamma on my G29s, it feels like I have more control over my trailbraking.

Raresch · Sep 9, 2019

JoelK said:
I'm actually using 2.99 gamma on my G29s, it feels like I have more control over my trailbraking.

When I used the standard 2.4 I couldn't brake until the end ... I was pressing as hard as I could and barely hit 95-100 and couldn't keep the pressure on.

Birche · Sep 9, 2019

God racing by everybody as usual

quali P7 I didn't believe to finishing P2 with so many strong drivers around me.

But what drive by @Aksu

, I didn't notice you was starting from the pit first after watching replay of the race, I have to say that was masterclass drive by you, to fighting through field and still getting a podium on this track are not easy, I can't understand how you manage to do that. Congrats for the awesomes drive

GEO147 · Sep 9, 2019

Yeah I think it was when you were in the Lambo. But I suppose I am not factoring in that I may have gotten a bit quicker also. You definitely were taking off like a bat out of hell on the straights in the Audi.

Maybe it is just as Joel says and needs more time and kms on the odometer.

GEO147 · Sep 9, 2019

Yeah I had Aki come up from behind me early in the race and I remember thinking I couldnt be getting lapped that early!
Some drive all right.

Aksu · Sep 9, 2019

Birche said:
God racing by everybody as usual
quali P7 I didn't believe to finishing P2 with so many strong drivers around me.

But what drive by @Aksu , I didn't notice you was starting from the pit first after watching replay of the race, I have to say that was masterclass drive by you, to fighting through field and still getting a podium on this track are not easy, I can't understand how you manage to do that. Congrats for the awesomes drive