PC2 Game changing info

Kurupt CDN · Oct 14, 2017

Edit: There has been some tweaks/changes in the past few patches so please use the temps listed in the link below for each class as recommended by Casey.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?57541-Project-CARS-2-Tyre-Temps

So the game has been out now for a few weeks and I have had the joys of listening to the raving reviews and the hatred towards it, peoples opinions and complete opposite spectrums in regards to the game of what they were feeling....shitty, physics, bad ffb, track grips vary too much and same with the cars etc. etc.

I'll be honest, I've had moments of brilliance, followed by many WTF is wrong with the ffb and physics. I can't feel crap, mushy or any detail and usually quit to go screw with my ffb settings.

Today I was browsing through there forum looking for the magical cure to bring out the potential I've felt a few times when I came across a thread named "Tire Temps" that had 1 response with a link.
That link containedwhat I felt was the magical cure and transformed my meh rating to holy **** this game is way more sophisticated than I ever gave it credit, and completely changed the entire ffb and physics and threw the many WTF moments right out the window.

Here's the link, the important part is a few responses down by F1racer64 who linked Pirellis, Michelin and Hankook racing tire info containing what tires to run during certain temps, optimal temps as well as suggested chamber. I can't remember if the in-game tire brands are officially sponsored or based off them? but they were damn spot on!!

I choose the Audi R8 at Long Beach a track I've had issues with grip and feel, followed the info and headed out on the track. It started out the typical slippery no feel I'd come accustomed too, then with each lap I started getting more and more feedback and response from the ffb and the car, when I finally hit the optimal temp for that tire I was left grinning from ear to ear for nearly 2 hrs just lapping.

Here's the Link for those who want to read it
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/car-behavior-and-tire-temps-after-patch-2-0.361962/

For the lazy

ill post the tire brand info here and give you a quick run down which was a quick copy & paste from F1racer

EDIT: Youll have to dl the tire info from the link as its too large for this form?
My tips:
I always thought green was the optimal temp colour for your tires and brakes....its actually a yellowy green you want.
Soft compounds are for cooler temp races
Hard compounds for hotter

The goal should be to achieve 32 PSI in every track condition. This means your cool (ambient) temp pressures set in tuning setup need to be HIGHER than your warm (ambient) temp pressures. Remember that the pressure being set in the tuning setup is your COLD pressure, whereas the target is 32 PSI (2.2 BAR) at HOT pressure state. Cooler ambient temps means less heat generated, so the starting pressure needs to be higher to begin with (closer to 32PSI).

Using the above guidelines, I have achieved consistent 150F - 175F temps in all conditions. Note that Pirelli states that "Racing tires work best at high temperatures (122° - 176° Fahrenheit)". In my testing, this has been exactly correct and has been where I have found the most grip.

For me, it completely changed how I looked at the game, the tire model and having to manage them while planning your strategy for the changing track conditions and weather has added so many aspects to my sim racing that I have not been able to experience to date in any title other than RF2.
Personally, I feel the live track 3.0 is even more advanced with the pooling water, snow, mud, ice and debris brought on track features.

I have a few questions for @Ian Bell if the info above is correct, why the hell didn't you use this info to highlight the tire model in your pre launch promos or pinned in your forums?

As a suggestion would it not be beneficial to raise the stock tunes PSI a few clicks so that the tires reach there optimal operating temps slightly quicker so it can highlight how good the game feels rather than struggling for several laps with lackluster ffb and response from the car.
The avg racer is never gonna figure it out and instantly give up or bash the game for poor physics and ffb. Once that tire starts reaching its optimal temps its feels amazing

Cheers
David

Ian Bell · Oct 14, 2017

Kurupt CDN said:
So the game has been out now for a few weeks and I have had the joys of listening to the raving reviews and the hatred towards it, peoples opinions and complete opposite spectrums in regards to the game of what they were feeling....shitty, physics, bad ffb, track grips vary too much and same with the cars etc. etc.

I'll be honest, I've had moments of brilliance, followed by many WTF is wrong with the ffb and physics. I can't feel crap, mushy or any detail and usually quit to go screw with my ffb settings.

Today I was browsing through there forum looking for the magical cure to bring out the potential I've felt a few times when I came across a thread named "Tire Temps" that had 1 response with a link.
That link containedwhat I felt was the magical cure and transformed my meh rating to holy **** this game is way more sophisticated than I ever gave it credit, and completely changed the entire ffb and physics and threw the many WTF moments right out the window.

Here's the link, the important part is a few responses down by F1racer64 who linked Pirellis, Michelin and Hankook racing tire info containing what tires to run during certain temps, optimal temps as well as suggested chamber. I can't remember if the in-game tire brands are officially sponsored or based off them? but they were damn spot on!!

I choose the Audi R8 at Long Beach a track I've had issues with grip and feel, followed the info and headed out on the track. It started out the typical slippery no feel I'd come accustomed too, then with each lap I started getting more and more feedback and response from the ffb and the car, when I finally hit the optimal temp for that tire I was left grinning from ear to ear for nearly 2 hrs just lapping.

Here's the Link for those who want to read it
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/car-behavior-and-tire-temps-after-patch-2-0.361962/

For the lazy ill post the tire brand info here and give you a quick run down which was a quick copy & paste from F1racer

EDIT: Youll have to dl the tire info from the link as its too large for this form?
My tips:
I always thought green was the optimal temp colour for your tires and brakes....its actually a yellowy green you want.
Soft compounds are for cooler temp races
Hard compounds for hotter

The goal should be to achieve 32 PSI in every track condition. This means your cool (ambient) temp pressures set in tuning setup need to be HIGHER than your warm (ambient) temp pressures. Remember that the pressure being set in the tuning setup is your COLD pressure, whereas the target is 32 PSI (2.2 BAR) at HOT pressure state. Cooler ambient temps means less heat generated, so the starting pressure needs to be higher to begin with (closer to 32PSI).

Using the above guidelines, I have achieved consistent 150F - 175F temps in all conditions. Note that Pirelli states that "Racing tires work best at high temperatures (122° - 176° Fahrenheit)". In my testing, this has been exactly correct and has been where I have found the most grip.

For me, it completely changed how I looked at the game, the tire model and having to manage them while planning your strategy for the changing track conditions and weather has added so many aspects to my sim racing that I have not been able to experience to date in any title other than RF2.
Personally, I feel the live track 3.0 is even more advanced with the pooling water, snow, mud, ice and debris brought on track features.

I have a few questions for @Ian Bell if the info above is correct, why the hell didn't you use this info to highlight the tire model in your pre launch promos or pinned in your forums?

As a suggestion would it not be beneficial to raise the stock tunes PSI a few clicks so that the tires reach there optimal operating temps slightly quicker so it can highlight how good the game feels rather than struggling for several laps with lackluster ffb and response from the car.
The avg racer is never gonna figure it out and instantly give up or bash the game for poor physics and ffb. Once that tire starts reaching its optimal temps its feels amazing

Cheers
David

I released a massively detailed expose on the insane detail in our latest tyre model about a couple of months before we shipped. I was told I was full of 'stuff' and anyone could type that

Anyway, nice link and work by that man. It does underscore the depth we've gone to. The tyre model is 'insane'.

cpt_gandy · Oct 14, 2017

Here is another thing that is modelled but i think gets over looked by many.

If you pick up mud on your car from going off track or cutting to much of a corner in the rain, the rain will transfer some of that mud on your car to the track which is pretty damm cool so if there is one corner that many like to cut a bit to much it could end up more slippy on the exit as a result of the mud and you will see the mud build up on the track over time as well.

No one else does that as far as i know.

There is so much depth to Project Cars 2 and it does make me wonder what other jems are in the game that we have not been told about or missed because they was hidden in a wall of text

Kurupt CDN · Oct 14, 2017

When watching racing on tv I always noticed how much the announcers and pits talked about weather, potential forecast, track temps, tire temps and management, navigating the track avoiding debris and puddles but never realized how important it was to manage all this and have a strategy for the race till now.
A major aspect missing in most titles atm, and people were labeling it a simcade

Well done

Gevatter · Oct 14, 2017

That's interesting info, thanks for sharing, but just to be sure: ALL tires should always be at 32PSI, no difference if racing slicks, wets, road tires or vintage tires? Or is that number just for racing slicks?

Andy_J · Oct 14, 2017

@Kurupt CDN Thanks David for the info. I decided to bite the bullet after reading this and purchase Pcars2. Managed to get it from CDKEYS for £29.99. Bargain.
Downloading now.

cpt_gandy · Oct 14, 2017

Gevatter said:
That's interesting info, thanks for sharing, but just to be sure: ALL tires should always be at 32PSI, no difference if racing slicks, wets, road tires or vintage tires? Or is that number just for racing slicks?

At the moment i would say that number is for racing slicks and its the max psi you should allow the tire to get to as the rated psi range is 28 to 32 psi ( 1.9 to 2.2 bar ) and you can feel the grip at the lower end of the working psi range as well. It should not be to hard to find the data for racing wets but it could be the same.

Another thing that you have to take in to consideration is heat transfer from the brakes and wheel hubs as this will have an effect in the long run as it looks like its modelled quite nicely.

Project cars 2 tire model/heat transfer model is a lot more complex than i thought it would be.

Kurupt CDN · Oct 14, 2017

Gevatter said:
That's interesting info, thanks for sharing, but just to be sure: ALL tires should always be at 32PSI, no difference if racing slicks, wets, road tires or vintage tires? Or is that number just for racing slicks?

I am no physics major by any means but from understanding 32 psi or 122-177 Fahrenheit is the optimal temp your aming for with each.
I just woke up so dont quote me on this next part as i am not sure if i read this in link above or just making it up lol

But I believe the winters/ice tires might have a slightly different approach at getting to that optimal range. The temps are based on the size of the actual tire contact patch so in theory a slighly under deflated tire in colder temps will have a larger contact patch combined with a flexier tire SHOULD generate heat quicker than just raising the psi which would give it a smaller contact patch.

You'll quickly come to realize that the whole aiming for optimal range is easier said than done and theres no one stop setting for all.
Every sessions car/track/tire combo combined with dynamic weather will effect how you reach that goal.
Note: As I found out last night in a mp race...an over inflated tire handles and feels just as bad as a cold tire lol

Heres a useful link from Jussi who has created a suspension and differential calculator.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?54023-Project-CARS-2-Suspension-Calculator-v0-96

Both are at the bottom of the first post above his signature. I havent used them yet, so I cant help or give any details on how they work exactly.

Cheers

jimortality · Oct 14, 2017

So for us mere mortals, how much pressure do you need when starting from the pits with GT3 at Daytona road course.

Kurupt CDN · Oct 14, 2017

jimortality said:
So for us mere mortals, how much pressure do you need when starting from the pits with GT3 at Daytona road course.

Theres really no determined answer for that.... just like in rl it all depends on the track temp/weather/tire compound and your driving will determine how you get to that optimal temp.
You basically have to test and adjust on the fly like real teams do.

Gevatter · Oct 14, 2017

I know the concept of optimal pressure ranges from Assetto Corsa. The different compounds have different optimal ranges there, and the OP made it sound like 32PSI is the go to value for all types and compounds, but you may have actually been talking about racing slick specifically.

Would you offer some insight into the optimal pressure ranges for the available compounds @Ian Bell ?

Kurupt CDN · Oct 14, 2017

Upon reading more of that thread it is indead for slicks, there's tire info for wets suggesting optimal psi is 27-29 which I can confirm after doing a cool rain race last night.
I haven't driven any of the vintage tire models yet.

Here's another copy n paste from that thread with good info

In order to generate maximum heat, you want to maximize the size of the contact patch. Over inflated results in only the middle being in contact with the ground, and under inflated results in only the outer edges being in contact. As a result, less heat generation and premature wear.

The Michelin document gives you all the details on the math involved (~0.7 PSI for every 10*F) Michelin also recommends 22PSI as a good general starting point. In cooler conditions you may have to start at 24 - 25 PSI cold. The key is to hit 32PSI HOT pressure regardless of the track conditions.

NOTE THAT THIS IS FOR RACING SLICKS (regardless of compound) Wet tires/Ice tires/Road tires will have different recommended pressures.

And one final note on tires..... It takes a MINIMUM of 4 laps before the tires start to see any proper heating/inflation. You need to run at least 5 - 10 laps to confirm your pressures/temps

Leynad777 · Oct 14, 2017

Kurupt CDN said:
I haven't driven any of the vintage tire models yet.

Besides this new vintage tyres for the old F1-cars i can't see any. Watching some old videos i can tell, that the track-tyres probably have too much grip, but far more close to the real cars than this rock-hard vintage-tyres. I think the usual "track"-tyres are one of the Pirelli P-Zeros (hard, medium or soft) and the lowest grip you get with semi-slicks in PC2 ignoring the vintage- and all-weather-tyres.

lotsofsmog · Oct 15, 2017

I thought you people were racing fans, you should try watching some real racing instead of just playing video games I mean simulators. Gt3 only has one tire choice based on temperature, the game has soft and hard because it has a range of temperature we're able to race in. I think they should rename the tires cold and hot, to avoid confusion.

Kurupt CDN · Oct 15, 2017

Congrats on your first post here at Race Department ...we can't wait to hear more of your opinions, especially when you start them off so good........let me be the first to rate ya

Leynad777 · Oct 15, 2017

lotsofsmog said:
Gt3 only has one tire choice based on temperature, the game has soft and hard because it has a range of temperature we're able to race in. I think they should rename the tires cold and hot, to avoid confusion.

Seems you should watch a bit more GT3-Motorsport and I suggest 24h Nürburgring and VLN-races with all kinds of different tyres. During the last 24h Nürburgring the track-temps were quite hot and most GT3-teams used hard-slicks, but they were still too soft for Porsche to run a full stint (8 laps) and they had to switch to "sportscar tyres". In an interview another GT3-racer said about the tyre-choice, he was just running a full stint with soft slicks. And in the usual short online-races i highly suggest to do the same

lotsofsmog · Oct 15, 2017

Wouldn't that make nurburgring and vln both be exceptions, while everyone other series runs just one hard compound, Blancpain, PWC and weathertech. Making the hard slick generally the tire you want to use.

Leynad777 · Oct 15, 2017

lotsofsmog said:
Wouldn't that make nurburgring and vln both be exceptions, while everyone other series runs just one hard compound, Blancpain, PWC and weathertech. Making the hard slick generally the tire you want to use.

You forgot the qualifying as an exception and Endurance-racing is a lot about pitstop-strategy and running long stints. Just was winning a short GT3-race with 14 sec. margin and one reason was i took the soft.

cpt_gandy · Oct 15, 2017

If you watch the SuperGT series they are not bound by one tire make and it does show, the GT300 cars are almost the same spec as Blancpain series GT3 cars