FFB Vibration/Noise in Direct Drive/AccuForce wheels?

Shovas

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Update 2020-07-04: Updated my settings here: https://selah.ca/secrets...#Force_Feedback_Settings

It might be surprising but I've never really given AC a chance, even though I really want to, because I've never been able to get clean ffb out of it whereas in ACC/iR/AMS/RF2/R3E/GTR2 it's no problem. Yes, ACC feels great, but I'd love to experience all that AC brings to the table with mods and addons and all that. But in AC the rough FFB is just too much to overcome for me.

Is this vibration or noise in the ffb normal for direct drive wheels or for other owners of AccuForce wheels in AC?

Any suggestions from other DD/AF owners on what you've done to get good ffb?

Thanks,
 
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Shovas

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Well I bit the bullet and did a deep dive in AC FFB and finally found an informative, clean, and smooth ffb for the AccuForce:

In-game Gain 75-90% (I customize per-car), Filter 90%, Minimum Force: 0%, Kerb 19%, Road 0%, Slip 25%, ABS 25%; SimCommander Reset to Defaults, Wheel Mode High, Engine RPMs Disabled, Game Force Feedback Smoothing 18.82%, AccuForce Fluid Dampening 1.18, AccuForce Friction 1.18%. Test Conditions: Primarily Ferrari 458 Italia and Corvette C7.R at Nurburgring GP, clear weather conditions.

Note the crazy use of Filter at 90%. Still, it's the best I could do.

I will continue to update my settings on my blog:

https://selah.ca/secrets...#Force_Feedback_Settings
 
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Gevatter

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I'd suggest to set the in-game gain down to 50-60%, then you'll have no clipping and can likely set the filter down a bit.
 

Shovas

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Try this instead of "crazy" filter.
Kerb 0%, Road 0%, Slip 5%, ABS 5%;
I tried all combinations starting from zeroing everything out. I have a mad scientist bisection search spreadsheet to prove it :) Leaving Filter at anything less than 90% resulted in what I call uninformative/noisey/rough ffb: Basically some forces didn't communicate anything realistic to me until I filtered at that level.

I'd suggest to set the in-game gain down to 50-60%, then you'll have no clipping and can likely set the filter down a bit.
You're right. I customize per-car so my main setting is 100% but I usually use between 75-90% set in-car. I've updated the original post.
 
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Shovas

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I'd suggest to set the in-game gain down to 50-60%, then you'll have no clipping and can likely set the filter down a bit.
I will give this a try. Definitely wouldn't mind getting some of that back.
 

Kek700

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You could go into the config file, Assetto Corsa .ini
In the main Assetto Corsa directory and set “gyro
To 1”.

It’s main use is for DD wheels, one of the main things is it removes the meaningless vibration from the wheel.
( due mainly ff gain force that DD wheels have )
Most use excessive damping to remove it which then effects the fidelity of the wheel.
(x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\assettocorsa\system\cfg \assetto_corsa.ini
There is the Assetto Corsa developers app there too
So change that from a 0 to a 1, may also find that
Interesting.
 

Shovas

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Thanks, will double-check that, too, but I did know about it and was pretty sure I had done that in the past.
 
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Andrew_WOT

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Something is off with AF I guess. Hope Dean will chime in with his AF settings.
I have not experienced issues you described with 0% filtering in AC on 20Nm OSW.
 

Kek700

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I’ll just say this for interest, I have tried every
AC setup I can with simxperience software.
Now I do not use accuforce software at all.
Just wheel with programmed settings and
nothing in AC either. Just a few % slip.
 
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Shovas

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I’ll just say this for interest, I have tried every
AC setup I can with simxperience software.
Now I do not use accuforce software at all.
Just wheel with programmed settings and
nothing in AC either. Just a few % slip.
Mind posting your settings for the wheel and in-game?
 

Shovas

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You could go into the config file, Assetto Corsa .ini
In the main Assetto Corsa directory and set “gyro
To 1”.
EDIT: Looks like gyro is just meant to reduce oscillation on dd wheels, anyway: https://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/...experimental-enable_gyro-0.25329/#post-512631

No luck with this. Set it, started, saw some x-y-z gyro looking coloured lines I don't recall seeing before hovering in the cockpit before you click Drive, so I assume it's working.

I started off with Road 0 and that was fine then I turned up Road and as soon as I did that the vibration/resonance came back, felt the same.

I noticed it's some kind of frequency/rotation/speed-based vibration as it gets stronger but actually fades away the faster you go. Can't think of what effect it's simulating that would cause that...
 
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Shovas

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I'd suggest to set the in-game gain down to 50-60%, then you'll have no clipping and can likely set the filter down a bit.
This didn't help, unfortunately, the the noise is still there, just less in magnitude, so you still have to filter the big spikes out.
 

Shovas

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My new favourite ffb effect is Slip Effect. Reminds me of Brake Vibe. It actually gives you information you can judge slip by and counter-act based on that, just like Brake Vibe communicates wheel rotation velocity and you can use that to make driving judgements by.

You do have to tune it, though, so it feels realistic.
 

Stereo

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I started off with Road 0 and that was fine then I turned up Road and as soon as I did that the vibration/resonance came back, felt the same.

I noticed it's some kind of frequency/rotation/speed-based vibration as it gets stronger but actually fades away the faster you go. Can't think of what effect it's simulating that would cause that...
It's just adding vertical suspension movement to the signal afaik, it's not simulating something a real suspension does (iirc PCars calls this Fz in their ffb tuning). There for people who want force feedback to be doing something even driving in a straight line in a car with no bumpsteer. Kerb and ABS are just frequency effects added when you're in the relevant situation and slip I think amplifies the tire feedback curve (so it's physically real effects but you get more of them relative to other forces)
 
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Shovas

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Had a strange but good thing happen. While experimenting with Gyro Damping vs Filtering, I started to accept some Filter road feel as acceptable (ie. it started to mean something to me with the way the car moved over the road). I randomly tried setting Damping 0% and for some reason it felt more analog now.

I've now disabled Gyro completely, left Filter at 61%, and things feel very good across most cars. Steering and road feel feels very analog and smooth. There's a little bit of roughness/digital road feel from Filter at 61% but Filter at higher values has its own issues so it's good to get some back.

Filter at 90%, like I had previously, was very informative for mass transfer and even undulations but nothing about road feel and sharper bumps, so a lower Filter helps that. Lower Filters also help alleviate a weird sort of force gap around center (not quite a min force issue but similar).

My new settings:

In-game: Gain 75-90% (I customize per-car), Filter 61%, Minimum Force: 0%, Kerb 19%, Road 0%, Slip 25%, ABS 25%; SimCommander: Reset to Defaults, Wheel Mode High, Engine RPMs Disabled, Game Force Feedback Smoothing 18.82%, AccuForce Fluid Dampening 1.18, AccuForce Friction 1.18%.
 

MANashTTU

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I don't have an Accuforce, but a Large Mige Simucube system. I experienced similar frustration with AC on my DD wheel for a long time---until I read some posts by Skeijmel on the Granite forums about the virtues of higher Reconstruction Filter settings in the Simucube firmware. I expect the AF software has filtering (smoothing) settings---and though purists often scorn smoothing, filtering, and dampening---I found running higher smoothing and a bit of dampening provide a rubber quality to the the steering feel over bumps and curbs, but also eliminated the sense of . . . for a lack of a better phrasing . . . digital noise that is apparent in AC's road surface feedback. I run 10 % road and 10 % slip and about 40 % gain in game, 100 % strength at the Simucube driver, with 1.5 % dampening, .75 friction and inertia at the Simucube driver. I run the Reconstruction Filter at 7 out of a possible 10 (though they say the 0 thru 10 is not linear).

Anyway---this is a verbose way to suggest---don't be afraid of smoothing on a DD wheel. It feels like rubber on the road without any real lost in fidelity or liveliness. Now AC is my favorite FFB experience of late.

P.S. Strongly recommend using Content Manager for AC launcher, if you're not already. Allows for total control over settings, including the obscure settings like gyro in FFB. I actually prefer the feel without gyro now with the settings I've described above, but its virtues are lauded by many on the AC and Granite forums.
 

Shovas

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Thanks, I agree, AF Smoothing is very impressive. On iRacing, I'm running 40-60% without a real loss in perceived clarity. Whatever their algorithm does it's very clever. It lets you feel the information more without losing the information.

So far on AC, though, I've tuned it to 18.82% and that seems okay. Previously I had to have it up to 100% to deal with the road noise and vibration/resonance but further tuning has allowed me to reduce those settings. I like to use as little as possible of those to try to get the real ffb out.

There's still some digital road noise in the ffb, although it's quite acceptable now, but I may try boosting the smoothing again to see if I can coax into some more meaningful forces.

Definitely using Content Manager. Absolutely worth donating to unlock it, too.
 
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Andrew_WOT

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I don't have an Accuforce, but a Large Mige Simucube system. I experienced similar frustration with AC on my DD wheel for a long time---until I read some posts by Skeijmel on the Granite forums about the virtues of higher Reconstruction Filter settings in the Simucube firmware. I expect the AF software has filtering (smoothing) settings---and though purists often scorn smoothing, filtering, and dampening---I found running higher smoothing and a bit of dampening provide a rubber quality to the the steering feel over bumps and curbs, but also eliminated the sense of . . . for a lack of a better phrasing . . . digital noise that is apparent in AC's road surface feedback. I run 10 % road and 10 % slip and about 40 % gain in game, 100 % strength at the Simucube driver, with 1.5 % dampening, .75 friction and inertia at the Simucube driver. I run the Reconstruction Filter at 7 out of a possible 10 (though they say the 0 thru 10 is not linear).

Anyway---this is a verbose way to suggest---don't be afraid of smoothing on a DD wheel. It feels like rubber on the road without any real lost in fidelity or liveliness. Now AC is my favorite FFB experience of late.

P.S. Strongly recommend using Content Manager for AC launcher, if you're not already. Allows for total control over settings, including the obscure settings like gyro in FFB. I actually prefer the feel without gyro now with the settings I've described above, but its virtues are lauded by many on the AC and Granite forums.
Good simucube/osw settings here
https://community.granitedevices.com/t/assetto-corsa-and-simucube/642/546
Except controversial Gamma = 1 with gamma disabled, which doesn't do anything based on my tests.
I also like just a bit of a slip, 5% is more than enough or it gets too chatty, masking more relevant info.
But FFB feel is quite individual thing, some people like it more informative, some subdued and "rubbery'
My settings at the moment.
upload_2019-5-21_21-33-3.png
 

Kek700

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Mind posting your settings for the wheel and in-game?
i will do out of interest when i get to my PC, post my settings, just looked at this article out of curiosity, but it is starting to get very interesting.
i will post my setting mainly because they are similar, but from a different route.:thumbsup: