Ferrari 458 GT2 @ Spa-Francorchamps

[JoelGL]

No. Why?

I asked because I tried editing your Q1-philbase setup above and AC indicated the setup was invalid. Checked height, all 4 were at 0.

 

[PhilS13]

We already explained that. With 0-0 height :

If you start the car in the middle of the track in hotlap mode it is illegal.
If you start the car in the pits in hotlap mode it is ok.
If you are in multiplayer most pit stalls are ok, but you might be unlucky and need to raise 1mm.
If you add fuel or lower tyre pressure it will be illegal.

This all has to do with how Assetto calculates ride height for the validation. They know it is problematic and they are talking about maybe fixing it. If do not want to deal with that raise the car 5 mm and that's it.The setup will be about 5 tenths slower.

 

[Nathaniel Dwayne Hale]

We already explained that. With 0-0 height :

If you start the car in the middle of the track in hotlap mode it is illegal.
If you start the car in the pits in hotlap mode it is ok.
If you are in multiplayer most pit stalls are ok, but you might be unlucky and need to raise 1mm.
If you add fuel or lower tyre pressure it will be illegal.

This all has to do with how Assetto calculates ride height for the validation. They know it is problematic and they are talking about maybe fixing it. If do not want to deal with that raise the car 5 mm and that's it.The setup will be about 5 tenths slower.

holy ****, 5mm cost 0.5s?!

 

[JoelGL]

We already explained that. With 0-0 height :

If you start the car in the middle of the track in hotlap mode it is illegal.
If you start the car in the pits in hotlap mode it is ok.
If you are in multiplayer most pit stalls are ok, but you might be unlucky and need to raise 1mm.
If you add fuel or lower tyre pressure it will be illegal.

This all has to do with how Assetto calculates ride height for the validation. They know it is problematic and they are talking about maybe fixing it. If do not want to deal with that raise the car 5 mm and that's it.The setup will be about 5 tenths slower.

I see, thanks, I didn't know that. Is there a thread on that? Have some clarifications, like where do you start in the middle of the track, as it seems to start always from pits. What about practice mode, or offline race? Or turning on blankets?

 

[PhilS13]

I see, thanks, I didn't know that. Is there a thread on that? Have some clarifications, like where do you start in the middle of the track, as it seems to start always from pits. What about practice mode, or offline race? Or turning on blankets?

We talked about it in this thread. The only thing you have to remember is ride height shown in car setup menu depends on tyre pressure, fuel and car location. My setups are always valid from the pits in hotlap mode with tyre blankets on. Tyre blankets give more heat -> more pressure -> more height.

Any other car locations, adding fuel, turning off tyre blankets may make the setup invalid.

 

[Tomas Torasen]

I've been playing a bit with this car and the bmw m3 gt2 recently at spa. Noticed my previous setups sucked with the updated software. Made new ones and contrary to befare I am now faster with the Ferrari than the bmw.
I got down to 2,18,5 with the ferrari and a second slower with the bmw. My best in previous versions was 2.17 with the bmw.

My impression is that you really (I) need to put in alot of laps and you can gain much more than you think by perfecting every corner.

But I would still be really interested to see a lap with the ferrari at spa from cockpit view that is really fast, like 2,15. I cant really understand 3 whole seconds faster is possible, or how rather.

It's interesting in the fastest lobbys like ALOOG that sometimes have the really fast players, it seems no matter how perfect I get a corner those peoplle just seem to run much faster cars. Almost makes me think there are some setup tweak that makes a huge difference.

 

[Nathaniel Dwayne Hale]

I've been playing a bit with this car and the bmw m3 gt2 recently at spa. Noticed my previous setups sucked with the updated software. Made new ones and contrary to befare I am now faster with the Ferrari than the bmw.
I got down to 2,18,5 with the ferrari and a second slower with the bmw. My best in previous versions was 2.17 with the bmw.

My impression is that you really (I) need to put in alot of laps and you can gain much more than you think by perfecting every corner.

But I would still be really interested to see a lap with the ferrari at spa from cockpit view that is really fast, like 2,15. I cant really understand 3 whole seconds faster is possible, or how rather.

It's interesting in the fastest lobbys like ALOOG that sometimes have the really fast players, it seems no matter how perfect I get a corner those peoplle just seem to run much faster cars. Almost makes me think there are some setup tweak that makes a huge difference.

There's many hotlaps on youtube. Though, granted they are from before 1.2, many even from before 1.0, when times were like... 2 seconds faster than they are now. But still, here's a really fast one. The thing I really notice is that they don't seem to drive any faster than me. Just that little but more tighter, and it nets them up to 4 seconds. it's just stupid how much time you can gain from a perfect line....

ALOOG is not a fast server. Not by far. At least if you mean the GT2@Spa? I rarely see people do faster than 2:18's. Sometimes there are people who are fast, but really rarely. I've been racing there fairly regularly for the last few weeks, and I've seen maybe 5-10 people do 2:17, and only maybe 1 go as low as 2:16. Am I just racing at the wrong time?

 

[Tomas Torasen]

My impression from this isnt that is is very tight. It's ok driving for sure but I've driven more perfect lines and taken a little more of curbs and road, but although this obviously I dont hold as high corner speeds. What I do react on is that I could never brake that late in some corners and still make the car get to the apex steadily.

You are probably right about ALOOG. But I think it's the fastest server hosting this combination online available. We just define fast a little differently. =) I've seen several go down to 2.16's, many at 2,17's and some go around 2.17 on the first couple laps on full fuel which I never could do without minimal fuel and super soft tires.

 

[Tomas Torasen]

I think this guys makes up big time on me in the first part of Fagnes. It's interesting that he doesnt have to change gears at campus and bruxelles, probable gains some time by that but not alot. Good gear ratios. Seems to have great grip, probably perfect gear ratio for 5:th gear at Pouhon, the car seems to really grip well.

But still, 2,14? Thats ALOT of time I am down.

 

[Nathaniel Dwayne Hale]

I think this guys makes up big time on me in the first part of Fagnes. It's interesting that he doesnt have to change gears at campus and bruxelles, probable gains some time by that but not alot. Good gear ratios. Seems to have great grip, probably perfect gear ratio for 5:th gear at Pouhon, the car seems to really grip well.

But still, 2,14? Thats ALOT of time I am down.

Well, I don't know about your driving, obviously, so this applies only to me. but hey, it might help you even a bit, so why not post it. Oh, this might be useful, to put my ramblings in perspective; I'm not a good driver: I can do maybe 2:17's if I try really hard and get lucky.

So, as for the gear ratios. I find that gear ratios and shifting, or not shifting don't really make a whole lot of a difference in the 458. The mountains of torque the engine provides makes for really nice acceleration throughout the rev range. I've seen people who rev the engine to the redline be just as fast as people who shift at the right place (6800-7000rpm i think). So me, I couldn't gain nowhere near 1 second just from slight gear ratio tinkering.

Another, unrelated thing I have found is that there are astonishing amounts of time to be gained in the short straights, for example a short tiny lift through the last les combes bend (and I mean, tiny, like, just lifting for a moment to tighten up my line), will cost me up to half a second on the short straight between les combes and bruxelles. That's just a huge amount of time. Campus is the same. For me, a slight mistake will cost a lot of time.

I also hit or miss for about half a second through bruxelles. i've seen people do double apex, late apex, or hug the inside of that corner, all doing less than 2:16. I am still unsure which is fastest. I am sure that I am not going fast enough though.

I just assume I am bleeding time like a stuck pig through all the corners, because I don't have the skill to get on the power early enough. Adding it all up, I could see it get to 4 seconds.

Anyway, this'll be probably useless to you, it's just my thoughts on spa. It's a tough track for me. But I am (very) slowly getting there.

 

[Tomas Torasen]

Thanks Nathaniel. I'm down to 2,16's now with a few more laps. But hard to understand how this can improve. This was also done with abs on. I never drove with abs on before but thought I'd try it and I can say that I gain ALOT of time with it on, I can shorten my braking distance by half in some places.

ABS is satans work though. I drive a few laps with it on and when I turn it off I lose my skill to brake efficently without it instantly. Anyway. we drive differently, but my biggest difference from looking at fast laps seems to be how extremely short braking distance those guys have, no matter how I do I cant brake that late, I've really tried alot now and it just seems impossible. The braking distance of those guys seems to be the same as having ABS on and just slamming full brake the whole braking distance and gearing down very quickly as you never could do without electronic assists.
Both servers online have ABS off so it's quite pointless trying to get a good time with ABS on cause youre only getting slower doing that when youre back to abs off.

 

[demetri]

But I would still be really interested to see a lap with the ferrari at spa from cockpit view that is really fast, like 2,15.

Here's 2:15.5 hotlap I made with 1.1.6
After the latest 1.2.3 update the car has become understeery and slower, pretty much like it was two weeks ago before 1.2. I really miss that slight oversteer we had in 1.2.2, was so fun to drive it once you get used to that. Maybe I can get it back by tweaking the setup, but for now old setups from 1.1.6 work the best for me

 

[Tomas Torasen]

Thanks, Demitri. The car seems to behave quite different from this version, or if it's your setup. It seems to have much more stable mid turn grip without much tendency to oversteer thus little need for throttle control.

 

[Tomas Torasen]

This is my fastest lap so far without abs. With abs is much faster for me.
Perhaps I could get some feedback where I lose so much time on some of you guys.

 

[demetri]

You could use more of those inside curbs at Fagnes and a bit more of the track surface on exit at La Source. And also take a more straight line across the curb in the second part of Raidillon.
It also looks to me that Bruxelles and the next left-hander are where you lose a bit of time. Those are two tricky corners though. I'm still having problems with them after the last update, can't find the right balance, the car either understeers badly or goes into oversteer at Bruxelles too quick for me to correct

 

[Nathaniel Dwayne Hale]

is it just me or has 1.2.5 changed the way this car behaves again?

 

[Tomas Torasen]

I tried it online for 2 races last night in 1.2.5. It certainly is faster on super softs. I made several big errors on my hotlap and still got down to 2,17,4 and felt as if I at least lost a second. Which means I was about a second faster than usual.
On soft and medium though I'm not faster. Braking is alot easier. More than that I need more testing.

 

[Nathaniel Dwayne Hale]

@PhilS13 hey mate. So i have a question. I was happily using your setup for the longest time. But since 1.2 it just had never felt right for me. and I was struggling with the times. Today I added quite a lot of camber, both front and rear, softened the rear arb and very slightly increased the rear packer rate. i immediately gained 2 seconds and feel sooo much more confidence in the car. I catch the line easier, i throttle out easier... it's just better for me.
Well, my question is this: you are a way better and more experienced driver than me. So obviously it stands to reason that your setup is very well thought out, and better than my chaotic tinkering. So do you think that my "easier" setup will just facilitate my poor technique and increase any mistakes I am making? Do you think I should stick with your harder to drive, more on edge setup? Would mastering that make me a better driver?

Thanks for your answer!

 

[PhilS13]

@PhilS13 hey mate. So i have a question. I was happily using your setup for the longest time. But since 1.2 it just had never felt right for me. and I was struggling with the times. Today I added quite a lot of camber, both front and rear, softened the rear arb and very slightly increased the rear packer rate. i immediately gained 2 seconds and feel sooo much more confidence in the car. I catch the line easier, i throttle out easier... it's just better for me.
Well, my question is this: you are a way better and more experienced driver than me. So obviously it stands to reason that your setup is very well thought out, and better than my chaotic tinkering. So do you think that my "easier" setup will just facilitate my poor technique and increase any mistakes I am making? Do you think I should stick with your harder to drive, more on edge setup? Would mastering that make me a better driver?

Thanks for your answer!

Original setup had quite low camber, depends what you mean by quite a lot but as long as you stay between -3.0 and -3.5 front you are in the good range. Rear between -2.2 and -3.0. Beyond that you're hurting the grip.

Lower rear arb works if you had issues with oversteer. Light understeer is perfectly ok to build confidence and get better that way but is ultimately slower. Once you are consistent start bringing the arb back up slowly.

Packers is placebo I dont think the rear ever reaches the packers on my setup.

I was more a fan of drive the hard to drive setups till I get it right when I started, but that was when I was in school and had plenty of time to drive....and it did take a lot of time to get it right. Both ways work but it's important to shake things up once you get comfortable and still off pace. You dont want to drive 2.17s that feel easy, you want to drive the 2.15s that make you sweat a bit.

 

[Nathaniel Dwayne Hale]

okay i know this is completely unrelated to gt cars, but this lap is just pure perfection. I don't really see anything he could have done better. So tight, so fast, so clean. Nearly no steering corrections were needed. Perfection. And I don't even like vettel.

Also, what I found shocking were his braking points. He braked at 70m into les combes, and for all i could see didn't brake at all (!) into pouhon. It is just unbelievable the downforce his car had. Another interesting thing was his line through bruxelles, for all I could see he didn't double apex it -- and neither did hamilton on his pole lap today. Interestingly, but that seems to be the faster way around that particular bend...?