DD wheels : so few options, such a difficulty to choose

Fastard · Jun 14, 2020

I am about to buy a DD wheel and I passed quite some time searching about what the market has to offer.

I want to share my thoughts with the community hoping to get some feedback on the validity of my conclusions(at least the non subjective ones).
In plus, other members that are currently on the same boat may share their thoughts/findings on the matter.

Simagic M10 : - not interested

I didn’t like the reviews

OSW : - not interested

Not an option for someone with terrible DIY skills like me

Accuforce Pro V2 : -not interested

+good reviews

+good user feedback(especially for the software)

-stepping motor

-170 euros the shipping cost to Europe

-unknown custom fees as I had no reply from the custom office of the country I live

VRS Directforce Pro : - still considering as an option

+Barry’s statement : ‘I could be happy if this would be my only wheel’

+impressive feedback from rally drivers and visitors of SimRacing Expo

+200 euros cheaper than DD1 and SC2

-I will be an early adopter

-sent an email asking for the weight of the base as well as for the availability and had no response

-limited community of users to share experiences with

-unknown games support

-lost in the steering wheels options as I cannot identify which is the cheapest rim that will do the job*

Fanatec DD1 : - still considering as an option

+large community of users

+fanatec wheels ecosystem

+realtively cheaper than SC2 as the cost of a decent wheel is lower(a 300 euros BMW GT2 wheel can do the job*)

+available

+easy to sell if I ever decide to

-QR flex

-I don’t trust their quality control and their software

-I doubt if my GT Omega Art Cockpit can handle the 10kg of weight and the forces produced by the base**

Simucube 2 Sport : - still considering as an option

+seems to be the most reliable base

+seems to offer the best driving experience

+weights 2kg less than the DD1 and it may be manageable by my cockpit

-lost in the steering wheels options as I cannot identify which is the cheapest rim that will do the job*. I think that the minimum you need is 400 euros but again the price/quality ratio is not so clear as with Fanatec wheels.

-usb cable on the wheel(in my price range)

-unavailable

*I don’t want a fancy rim with an lcd display and many functions. I just want a wheel with a basic button box+basic paddle shifters. By ‘doing the job’ I mean finding a rim that can handle the FFB of the base with no flex. That's my only concern.

**during my research I realized that i will most probably ave to upgrade my cockpit. It will be good though to do the upgrade in 6 months time. I will be hapy if my current rig can serve me till then.

Deleted member 197115 · Jun 24, 2020

Argon OSW build with Lenze is a great combo. You can probably still update encoder as long as it's not SinCos or Biss-C, which MMOs does not support.

slikk66 · Jun 24, 2020

Andrew_WOT said:
Argon OSW build with Lenze is a great combo. You can probably still update encoder as long as it's not SinCos or Biss-C, which MMOs does not support.

ah there are still encoder upgrades to be had? I knew it did not support the sincos/biss, but did not realize there were others. As far as I know it is a 4096ppr, 16350~ cpr on there currently, but not confirmed. It has been hard to find much info on this kit. I just got it, going through the package now!

Deleted member 197115 · Jun 24, 2020

slikk66 said:
ah there are still encoder upgrades to be had? I knew it did not support the sincos/biss, but did not realize there were others. As far as I know it is a 4096ppr, 16350~ cpr on there currently, but not confirmed. It has been hard to find much info on this kit. I just got it, going through the package now!

I updated Small Mige to 10K PPR, I think that was the highest, had 5K before, the change in smoothness was not huge but welcome.
But again, if you just getting stop gap base before you can move into SC2, no reason to invest more into obsolete tech.

slikk66 · Jun 24, 2020

Yea, good point, and I do think this will be a stop gap. I signed up for both SC2 pro and VRS waitlists. Until then, OSW time!

TedBrosby- · Jun 25, 2020

slikk66 said:
Well, its an older one that is pre simucube, pre everything I think. I probably jumped a little too early to grab it, but we'll see. It was $900 and comes with a mounting bracket,, fanatec universal hub, Alcantara GT wheel, quick release adapter and USB adapter for the fanatec wheels so all that can go to another wheel even VRS I think. Its an Argon based Dennis Reimer unit with 29nm Lenze motor 4096 per encoder, and I think it's at about the end of the road as far as updates go. Apparently new it was like $3500.. let's hope its worth approx 400-500 now and provides a good enough experience for a while.

Simucube 1 can still work for you. It looks like they even have your motor listed on their compatibility chart:
https://granitedevices.com/wiki/List_of_motors_for_SimuCUBE

All you need is to get the Simucube 1 board and possibly an IONI Pro. Or you can try to set up the Argon with the Simucube 1. Of course it won't be as good as a Simucube 2, but I definitely think the Simucube 1 electronics and driver will offer you a lot of great upgrades over your stock OSW firmware (I believe MMOS?)

Deleted member 197115 · Jun 25, 2020

TedBrosby- said:
Simucube 1 can still work for you. It looks like they even have your motor listed on their compatibility chart:
https://granitedevices.com/wiki/List_of_motors_for_SimuCUBE

All you need is to get the Simucube 1 board and possibly an IONI Pro. Or you can try to set up the Argon with the Simucube 1. Of course it won't be as good as a Simucube 2, but I definitely think the Simucube 1 electronics and driver will offer you a lot of great upgrades over your stock OSW firmware (I believe MMOS?)

There is no SC1 FW for Argon. But if you can get SC1 controller, you can pair it with Lenze motor.
I wouldn't invest into this personally, just upgrade to SC2 when time and money are right.

slikk66 · Jun 25, 2020

Also, the motor I have is not the L variant, it is simply the MCS12H15 which runs at a higher voltage and resistance(?) I found a post by Beano in the past saying the L variant is the preferred model to use with simucube system and that the model I now have will produce much weaker overall force unless it is paired with an Argon.

mrbean_phillip · Jun 25, 2020

^^ Yes, correct, high-voltage model will still work on 48V Simucube system, but it will be limited to ~15NM, whereas L version produces ~25NM on 48V. Both are voltage-limited due to winding-resistance, the high-voltage one more so though.

Anyway, Martin Ascher has tested Lenze servo with higher resolution on the Argon some years ago, but he did not find any real benefit over the 4K /16 encoder. Higher res encoder will be beneficial if paired to the Simucube though, will better support the more advanced filters, but I wouldn’t go through the trouble on the Lenze, it is notoriously difficult to replace the factory encoder.

Use it as is and wait for your SC2, it will be a very good interim wheel. Just watch for oscillations if you let go of the rim.

Cheers,
‘Beano

Fastard · Jun 25, 2020

Tomo's budget wheel already sold out!

Let's hope that this simracing madness and the consequent crazy production rhythms will not affect the quality control of the manufacturer's.

Maintain the same quality standards while having the triple(?) workload might be a real challenge for them.

Prices skyrocketing could be another concern in the upcoming months.

slikk66 · Jun 25, 2020

Got the OSW up and running, works great! This is my first DD experience (previously running a CSW 2.5) and it's really nice.

I think I'll just keep it "ignorance is bliss" for a while and not mess with settings too much as the feel is very good. I am using irFFB with some default MMos settings the previous owner provided for me and I'm very happy with the results, hopefully it stays running for some time!!

Behold, the basement frankenstein DIY rig

TedBrosby- · Jun 26, 2020

slikk66 said:
Got the OSW up and running, works great! This is my first DD experience (previously running a CSW 2.5) and it's really nice.

I think I'll just keep it "ignorance is bliss" for a while and not mess with settings too much as the feel is very good. I am using irFFB with some default MMos settings the previous owner provided for me and I'm very happy with the results, hopefully it stays running for some time!!

Behold, the basement frankenstein DIY rig

View attachment 384144

I also have a CSW v2.5 and am on the fence between waiting for my VRS pre-order or trying to get a hold of an SC2. I'm wondering how big of a jump 2.5 is to DD and what kind of jump it is: whether it's noticeable in the areas I care about. Can you tell me how different the detail is for you WRT to losing traction, locking up brakes, hitting grip limit, transition to rumble strips or clear pavement/rough pavement? For me, the CSW has plenty of power for the cars I drive (I don't do stuff with manual steering) but what I'd like is more detail and the ability to use non Fanatec wheels without the Podium Hub.

I'm tempted by the Pro but I really don't like the idea of two power supplies.

metalnwood · Jun 26, 2020

You wont regret going from a belt wheel to DD, hopefully Slikk has some feedback soon.

IMO, the dual power supplies on the SC2 pro was a bad decision for a consumer product, I cannot figure out for the life of me why and if there was no option between the smaller one and the one used with the ultimate they should have just shipped the PSU that comes with the ultimate and put up the price to cover it. It just doesnt make sense to go with two.

The end result is it doesnt have to be an issue though. If you are worried about the look them I would probably just put the power cables either end of the PSU in a braided cable cover and maybe just cable tie the two PSU's together. I dont think heat is an issue there.

So yeah, dumb idea two psu's but dont let it put you off.

slikk66 · Jun 26, 2020

@Ted ive only gotten about 2 hours or so of drive time on it, and keep in mind there are a million options, and this is a much older model. But my impressions so far is that it doesn't feel completely different, but it just feels more natural. I'm spinning much less and can more easily tell where I'm at while in the midst of hard turning.. ease off the gas or bit more input available, stuff like that. On the csw for most cars I would use irFFB to help me increase the power until it would start clipping at 4%ish, and lots of times lower force levels were too low, and up high it was harder to tell where the limit is and when you were starting to understeer. Plus, I just wanted a bit more overall force on the wheel. I like the skip, lotus 79, f3, f3.5, stuff like that so it always felt odd to not be fighting the wheel a bit more. I also wanted a larger wheel, the formula and p1 weren't big enough, but I was worried a larger wheel would reduce feel even a bit further. Overall the 2.5 holds up pretty well, but its really the "resolution" of the feedback that is improved, im sure all the specific scenarios you list there are included in that.

TedBrosby- · Jun 26, 2020

metalnwood said:
You wont regret going from a belt wheel to DD, hopefully Slikk has some feedback soon.

IMO, the dual power supplies on the SC2 pro was a bad decision for a consumer product, I cannot figure out for the life of me why and if there was no option between the smaller one and the one used with the ultimate they should have just shipped the PSU that comes with the ultimate and put up the price to cover it. It just doesnt make sense to go with two.

The end result is it doesnt have to be an issue though. If you are worried about the look them I would probably just put the power cables either end of the PSU in a braided cable cover and maybe just cable tie the two PSU's together. I dont think heat is an issue there.

So yeah, dumb idea two psu's but dont let it put you off.

It's less the look and more about the inconvenience. The included cables are short, and the extension cables are hard to find in Japan so I'd have to order them from overseas. It just seems more like a hassle compared to the plug & play Sport. It's a shame because the Pro is literally like 80% of the Ultimate for like 45% of the price but I just really really don't like those two PSU's. It might be a complex of mine...

Deleted member 197115 · Jun 26, 2020

TedBrosby- said:
It's less the look and more about the inconvenience. The included cables are short, and the extension cables are hard to find in Japan so I'd have to order them from overseas. It just seems more like a hassle compared to the plug & play Sport. It's a shame because the Pro is literally like 80% of the Ultimate for like 45% of the price but I just really really don't like those two PSU's. It might be a complex of mine...

Sport has exactly the same length cable, in fact same exact PSU as on Pro, just one.
The extension is standard PCI-E 6 Pin Male to 6-Pin Female GPU Power cord extension.
Do not disagree that it's is not super consumer friendly, but in all honesty, minor issue, same as 2 PSUs, that you deal with only once when installing wheelbase on the rig.

Fastard · Jun 29, 2020

As I have it in mind, plugging these psu's directly to the wall is more than recommended.

That makes it impossible for me(and i guess for others) due to space limitations/apartment plug configuration.

RCHeliguy · Jun 29, 2020

My rig is completely mobile and all devices on my rig connect to a single outlet strip that connects to my wall outlet. I've been using it this way for 9 months.

I have an outlet strip rated for 15A on my rig and everything plugs into that. Works great!
That includes an NLRv3 seat mover, the two SC2 Pro PS's and my powered USB hub.

Amazon.com: PDU Rackmount UL 15Amp 5 Outlets Power Strip Surge Protection 1U/15A/110V 6.5ft 14AWG Power Cord, SPD Thunderproof 1050J, 360 Degree Rotation : Electronics

www.amazon.com

I'm also using two 6 wire Graphics card extension cords as recommended by SimuCube.
I also got some 1 foot long 14ga power cords to keep things looking clean.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01DGES35A

Ruttman98 · Jun 29, 2020

"I'm also using two 6 wire Graphics card extension cords as recommended by SimuCube."

Why is this recommended and what type did you use, please?

RCHeliguy · Jun 29, 2020

This is the link once provided by SimuCube on their forum as what to use. They plug directly into the back of the SC2 Pro and then the two cables from the power supplies plug into them. They are locking connections, so they won't come apart.

PCI-E 6Pin Male to 6-Pin Female for GPU Video Card Power Extension Cable 50cm US | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for PCI-E 6Pin Male to 6-Pin Female for GPU Video Card Power Extension Cable 50cm US at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

I put sheathing around mine.

Fastard · Jun 29, 2020

In other news I passed the point of no return

by ordering the pieces of my new 80/20 custom rig.
Took the Motedis long and hard way but I couldn't be happier with the result.

Focusing on the wheel base now.

Always SC2 Sport orientated, but still with an eye on Simplicity.

Still need some info in order to go forward with the SC2 rim research.

I can't imagine that the usb cable could create such a headache as the one I read on the forums by fellow co-racers.
I would like having some feedback from cabled steering wheels users on the matter.

And beside the obvious drawback, does the usb solution has any advantages(ex: less latency) over the wireless one?