D -Box 4250i G3 VS Next Level Traction Plus and V3

[Beef36]

The ideal arrangement for dbox are a square pattern and 80/20 rigs are rather narrow (from to back)

Do you have your actuators in a square pattern around your seat, or are your front actuators closer to the front of the sim rig?

For example, my front actuators are mounted just forward of my seat, and well before my pedals, thus creating close to a square shape around my seat.

 

[NetLawMan]

Do you have your actuators in a square pattern around your seat, or are your front actuators closer to the front of the sim rig?

For example, my front actuators are mounted just forward of my seat, and well before my pedals, thus creating close to a square shape around my seat.

They are further forward. I am not comfortable moving them back given the amount of weight at the front of the rig.

 

[Beef36]

They are further forward. I am not comfortable moving them back given the amount of weight at the front of the rig.

What is on the front of your rig?

If you have D-Box 4250i actuators, then it will support 225kg on the front 2 actuators alone, and 450kg in total. A 4400i will support 725kg.

Unlike some of the other motion platforms, D-Box can sustain its performance at max weight load, and has been known to continue to operate at expected performance beyond max weight load.

 

[OlaGB]

Yes, I have tested and I think above I may have said its far too little. Well thats wrong that its far too little because obviously its still pretty good.

Like you I am in the camp that you dont need a lot of motion to make motion good so in that respect I dont have it jumping all round like a mad man. I wouldn't use more than 1.5" for normal effects but more than 1.5" could be used when mixing effect. I am in VR so monitors are not an issue for me but I would tend to think that a lot of movement without monitors on the rig would be a bit weird for me so I think I would agree with you there too.

4" or 6" in my view doesnt mean more motion/faster motion/ exaggerating movements but it gives you more range to mix. An example being daytona road course, I am not going to have it really violent, I imagine most of my motion is like yours except when I hit the steeply banked oval and I can maintain that pitch while still having enough travel to not compromise the other bumps, slide/sway, whatever may happen.

In flight it certainly makes a difference if you are in to flight simulators as well.

Good points, and yes this is the only limitation i see in short travel systems.. That when they are tilting max in a direction, there’s not much left to i.e. give heave motion at the same time.

That said, i’ve never noticed it being a limitation after probably 200+h of motion use.. Maybe because i run low roll settings as this is the direction i like the least in motion systems
Could be i’d do it differently in VR and flight sims, i’ve only tested various car sims on triples.

And also consider that high speed curves in steep banking, in real life this isnt mainly a sideways G as it actually push you down in the seat just as much.. So a 6’ banking turn, would’nt feel right if a motion system banks 6’ as well.

As Sigma say in theire explanation video, it’s about the ‘jerk’ sensation, not the constant G feel

 

[metalnwood]

I guess with motion the brain finds ways to make what you feel fit with what you are seeing.

If I was really on that banking section in an lmp2 I probably wouldnt feel the weight on my left side and I probably do in the sim if I am thinking about it. What may brain tells me is that I feel like I am banking and VR shows me I am. So while analyzing what feels should be where, it doesnt seem to matter so much if the brain is dumb enough to let you get away with it

If I had to live with 1.5" I could do it but I dont see the need to compromise either. I am sure if a 4" dbox was the same cost other solutions all dbox users would have 4" and also be happy with that, most likely utilising more than 1.5" for what makes sense to do that.

If dbox was the cheaper solution I could probably make much better arguments to go with smaller actuators rather than spending a reasonable amount more but when it's the other way around I can't As others have said, I think at that point it comes down to what brand are you more comfortable with.

 

[NetLawMan]

What is on the front of your rig?

If you have D-Box 4250i actuators, then it will support 225kg on the front 2 actuators alone, and 450kg in total. A 4400i will support 725kg.

Unlike some of the other motion platforms, D-Box can sustain its performance at max weight load, and has been known to continue to operate at expected performance beyond max weight load.

It’s not a overweighting issue. It’s a tipping/safety issue. The steering column and pedal setup are by far the heaviest part the the rig. Placing the front actuators behind steering puts all of that weight forward in an unsupported position, Which I don’t want to do .

 

[Beef36]

It’s not a overweighting issue. It’s a tipping/safety issue. The steering column and pedal setup are by far the heaviest part the the rig. Placing the front actuators behind steering puts all of that weight forward in an unsupported position, Which I don’t want to do .

Fair enough. I'm not suggesting that you change anything on your rig, however I originally thought the same when I purchased a Hyper Stimulator chassis 10 years ago.

It had zero floor support in the front third of the rig and I thought that it too would tip forward, but it never did.

My current rig is a similar configuration. It has front actuators directly under the steering wheel servo and no foot support forward of that. It too never tips...

 

[NetLawMan]

Fair enough. I'm not suggesting that you change anything on your rig, however I originally thought the same when I purchased a Hyper Stimulator chassis 10 years ago.

It had zero floor support in the front third of the rig and I thought that it too would tip forward, but it never did.

My current rig is a similar configuration. It has front actuators directly under the steering wheel servo and no foot support forward of that. It too never tips...

Agreed. Once sitting in the rig no issue, but before then …..

 

[NetLawMan]

Glad to see other users of the system represented here. It’s important for people looking to make a decision to get perspectives on all options, and not just DIY options.

 

[ColinMac]

This is all good reading. Ultimately, I decided to move to D-Box after long discussions with Ken D-Box and my mate who had moved from PTA gear to it. The longevity of the actuators was a key factor - some of them are over 10 years old still running with zero maintenance, and every time I powered my PT-A kit, the metallic noise as they wound down the the lead screws kinda made me think "this might not last forever". I know PT-A's newer scorpions have better seals and some build improvements, but my D-Box kit I fully expect (hope!) will last for years and years.

In VR, the lower travel is completely immersive, and if I'm honest some of my sim actuator profiles are at 50% motion/50% vibration. I'd completely counter the argument for more travel, despite it sounding good spec wise. I rarely ever used any more than 80mm of travel even tho the PT-A stuff had loads more.

SRS software which is used to drive a thanos controller for the PT-A actuators is coming on leaps and bounds though - I still do remote support VIP sessions for SRS, and still have their windsim kit.

Both PT-A and D-Box motion systems are really good. SRS/PT-A needs a lot more tweaking in terms of finding the perfect sensation, whilst D-Box is kinda more use friendly (although the customisation is still there if you want).

I grin most times I drive almost anything !

 

[John Bruno]

Pros and cons to both scenarios when evenly matched with 4 actuators. As PT-A offers 6DOF with sway, yaw and surge would this be enough to tip the scales? I suppose the question is are the added effects more of a gimmick or do they add useful immersion?

 

[RCHeliguy]

Pros and cons to both scenarios when evenly matched with 4 actuators. As PT-A offers 6DOF with sway, yaw and surge would this be enough to tip the scales? I suppose the question is are the added effects more of a gimmick or do they add useful immersion?

After I got my G-Belt, I decided I didn't need surge anymore, plus the belt pulls the left vs. right side to help you feel corners and it can hold that force there for long corners past where you would run out of travel with a side to side slide.

I also know a number of people who went the G-Seat route vs. surge and slide.

From a complexity standpoint 6 DOF systems look quite a bit more involved. Wiring harnesses need to be bullet proof to handle all the back and forth and side to side motion, etc.. etc..

Many real race car drivers and people like Neil Heusinkveld consider all motion systems gimmicks. So there is little ground to stand on in that respect. Either you like the effect or you don't. I won't dismiss any of this as a gimmick. However as I stated earlier, with a serious tactile system that goes well beyond what D-Box offers, I don't think about motion much.

 

[Tronicgr_6DOF]

You can always place the D-box on a PT-ACTUATOR Surge TL base...

 

[ColinMac]

Race@Home's low rider ? Looks fantastic. Some setup that.....

 

[Beef36]

You can always place the D-box on a PT-ACTUATOR Surge TL base...

I wonder why the D-Box Game Center window is flat on the bottom, but curved at the top?

Would that be inconsistent curveture of the projector screen?

 

[ColinMac]

It's likely just an offset view of the curve - much like sitting off to one side of a curved LCD panel - tops and bottoms of horizontal windows often look distorted. Bet in the seat that looks amazing. You can often use software to 'warp' the projector grid to best fit the screen- a technique used in pro sim setups to build a massve distortion free FOV.

 

[NetLawMan]

What is on the front of your rig?

If you have D-Box 4250i actuators, then it will support 225kg on the front 2 actuators alone, and 450kg in total. A 4400i will support 725kg.

Unlike some of the other motion platforms, D-Box can sustain its performance at max weight load, and has been known to continue to operate at expected performance beyond max weight load.

Deleted.. duplicate response.

 

[No Depth]

So after much deliberation and research, I think I’m ready to upgrade from an NLR v3 to a full D-box.

I love the NLR v3, but have been itching to switch to a full chassis mover for awhile. Having haptic support is a bonus as I would love to downsize the complex 8-shaker setup I currently have as well if the effects from D-box can match or just deliver enjoyable haptics, which impressions seem positive on. Possible I’d keep the BK’s for additive effects.

Has anyone by chance purchased from advanced sim racing? Seems to be a trusted seller. I would order from Simlab but they are out of stock and the free shipping incentive from Advancedsimracing is a huge bonus for North America. I just don’t know if their included brackets would fit my p1-x sized rig as they are designed for their own ASR chassis(which seem to be slightly less wide?). Could order Simlab brackets I guess if needed.

Anyway buy once, cry once and all that…. I’m here for silly grins over lap times also. Seems this is the way.

 

[John Bruno]

Congrats! Be sure to let us know how you like it compared to the NLR v3.

 

[RCHeliguy]

FWIW I have heard feedback from D-Box owner who has compared its haptics with the RaceBass solution.

He hasn't said anything bad about the D-Box haptics, but he does prefer the RaceBass tactile and has been enthusiast about how well it works.

Depending on the level of tactile you have configured, the D-Box haptics may be enough to make you happy.

I expect the motion will be excellent.