D -Box 4250i G3 VS Next Level Traction Plus and V3

[NetLawMan]

Actually I found the answer in my FB messenger exchange with ASR:

Q: There are three questions. 1. Does is matter which Ethernet/network port I use for the cables on each controller box or is it simply the case of run the first wire between the two controllers and another wire from one of the controllers to usb? 2. Does it matter which controller box connects to the pc? 3. Are the cables standard shielded Ethernet cables (they are too long for me and If I can replace with shorter shielded cat 5/6/7 cables it would be great)?

A: hey the front actuator are always the main so you connect the left port to the kai and than to the pc and the right port conect to the rear acm and you conect it on right side and for the ethernet cable let me check with them if you can use any sort of cable

A: You can use any ethernet cable

 

[NetLawMan]

Because I wanted shorter Ethernet cables, I bought shorter high quality shielded cables.

 

[AshCountach]

Now that Grid legends is a code master release, hopefully it will have native d-box support like F1 and Dirt Rally 2.

Grid Legends does have Telemetry support like Grid 2019 so my NLR will work and hopefully D-Box as well.

 

[Wodz30]

Regarding haptic or tactile feedback, I have 4x Mini LFE Buttkickers heavily tuned through SimHub and the result is absurd. I can feel the car idle properly. On F1 cars I feel a specific pitched vibration through my throttle pedal. I feel a different vibrated feeling during hard braking. It takes endless hours to properly configure these various frequencies to your liking AND it is important to have different profiles for different car classes (high rev vs low rev, endurance, F1, road, GT). The feeling is so great that I would instantly disable any type of competing feedback that came with a motion system.

Regarding motion - with the DBOX G1 4250 do you feel it is LACKING any functionality compared to the G3? Based on reading through this thread it seems the primarily benefit of the G3 is possible future expansion toward 6DOF. Does that sound correct?

My limited understanding is that the G1 4250 offers 3DOF, is that correct? Obtaining something like 6DOF then requires some type of "traction platform" to physically slide the rig in lateral positions. Is that correct? I suppose that would be beneficial for drifting.

Thanks

 

[Wodz30]

I am comparing the D-BOX G1 4250i vs the PT-Actuator Scorpion Sting E or S

The G1 has 1.5" of travel and the cost for an outdated G1 kit is $5,560
The Scorpion E has a travel of 4" and the cost of $5,000 for much newer tech
The Scorpion S has a travel of 6" and the cost of $6,500

Granted for racing games the travel will likely get toned down to X amount, so the high travel rates are likely only great for flight sim, does that sound correct?

I am failing to understand why anyone would (today) purchase the G1 D-Box over PT-Actuator aside from the name being more famous/trusted. The tech in the PT kits appear to be far more modern

I have placed my rig in a specific area that intentionally has restricted width, this means I cannot eventually upgrade to 6DOF using TL platform from any vendor. I can only get so far as 3DOF. I would love TL to feel the car "kick out from the rear", but I believe this to be impossible without a TL platform, which is too wide for me. Hopefully I am missing something.

Since you guys are experts I am hoping someone can provide some insight as I am only starting out and trying to understand all of these terms and tech.

 

[RCHeliguy]

I've heard this same debate over and over the last 3 years

This is frequently a nearly religious debate.

Let me start by saying I don't own either system so I have not bought into either.

Here are my observations. D-Box has had a serious software advantage (in terms of feel, easy of configuration )with better support of more titles and much easier configuration from the beginning and their system is extremely reliable with great support. I know this from many accounts.

The PT Actuator side of the debate has always focused on on the physical travel and then power which are very easy to point at and show how "obviously" they must be better.

While the software side was weak, the PT Actuator advocates would always downplay this.

They recently started to use SRS which is a solid improvement.

The most recent DBox hardware is extremely polished in terms of EMI shielding, size, and the software continues to be excellent.

Here is the tough part. How can you have a conversation about the merits of each?

Most PT Actuator people go on and on about range of motion, but what about the quality of the motion?

That is a very hard to explain thing. My actuators are bigger is so much easier to sell.

I can't argue which one is currently the best. I don't know what the current PT Actuator system feels like next to a D-Box system.

PT Actuators have been a work in progress. Based on what I've read and heard from owners over the years, I have complete trust in the D-Box system. I know it will be quiet, reliable and have great support.

Based on everything I've read about PT Actuator systems I don't have that trust. There are happy costumers who feel that they've saved a lot of money, but I've felt like weaknesses have been downplayed many times as upgrades were made. There have been rapid advancements made over and over again and with each set of updates and each generation they kept talking about how you had to be rich to buy a D-Box system. Over time that got very old to my ears.

I can not remotely tell you which is best. I can only tell you that I would trust D-Box.

 

[metalnwood]

I dont think the dbox software advantage is much of an advantage unless there is some specific software you need to use. It's mostly titles that are not simulation or so old that you would probably have issues with your other up to date DD wheels, multiple controllers etc. below is the list that SRS supports, you would have to be a real fan of a title to pay the premium with dbox just to get that titles support.

Personally I think 1.5" is far to little.. Although I value heave the most and dont care so much about a lot of pitch and roll 1.5" doesnt give you the extra headroom to mix in heave when needed and still deliver good pitch and roll.. you just run out and lose the ability to mix these effects together nicely.

Length isn't the only thing but dbox's 1.5" was never chosen as the optimal size for a racing rig, it's just what you get for every dbox application for those actuators.

 

[Beef36]

Here is the tough part. How can you have a conversation about the merits of each?

It's hard to determine the merits of each motion platform when they are so hard to try before you buy.

So you are left with sim racers aspiring to own a motion platform, advocates for motion platforms that sim racers have purchased for themselves, or marketing propaganda from platforms themselves (D-Box is no exception).

I can't tell you which motion platform is best for you, but just be careful of relying only on marketing and specs. Like many products they don't tell the whole story.

There are all sorts of factors under the covers like acceleration, lag, peak performance and sustained performance under load. Then overlay that with quality, durability, reliability & support. And then overlay that with software to run the actuators, and then work out which categories are most important to you when assessing price.

From a marketing / specifications perspective, I think SFX-100 may be on par or better than D-Box. But from a sim racer's "feel" perspective, they are not at the same level. D-Box provides a much more nuanced motion experience, with the added comfort of its reputation for quality and reliability.

However whether that is worth the price premium is different for everyone.

 

[Wodz30]

I've heard this same debate over and over the last 3 years

This is frequently a nearly religious debate.

Let me start by saying I don't own either system so I have not bought into either.

Here are my observations. D-Box has had a serious software advantage with better support of more titles and much easier configuration from the beginning and their system is extremely reliable with great support. I know this from many accounts.

The PT Actuator side of the debate has always focused on on the physical travel and then power which are very easy to point at and show how "obviously" they must be better.

While the software side was weak, the PT Actuator advocates would always downplay this.

They recently started to use SRS which is a solid improvement.

The most recent DBox hardware is extremely polished in terms of EMI shielding, size, and the software continues to be excellent.

Here is the tough part. How can you have a conversation about the merits of each?

Most PT Actuator people go on and on about range of motion, but what about the quality of the motion?

That is a very hard to explain thing. My actuators are bigger is so much easier to sell.

I can't argue which one is currently the best. I don't know what the current PT Actuator system feels like next to a D-Box system.

PT Actuators have been a work in progress. Based on what I've read and heard from owners over the years, I have complete trust in the D-Box system. I know it will be quiet, reliable and have great support.

Based on everything I've read about PT Actuator systems I don't have that trust. There are happy costumers who feel that they've saved a lot of money, but I've felt like weaknesses have been downplayed many times as upgrades were made. There have been rapid advancements made over and over again and with each set of updates and each generation they kept talking about how you had to be rich to buy a D-Box system. Over time that got very old to my ears.

I can not remotely tell you which is best. I can only tell you that I would trust D-Box.

But mate you are comparing the CURRENT D-Box platform with PT. If that is the case then D-Box would win hands down. I was comparing the Gen1 D-Box to the CURRENT PT since those are both priced fairly similar. In that comparison it seems the PT offers mucher newer tech compared to the outdated G1 D-Box tech.

I doubt anyone would even suggest current PT is better than current D-Box unless they are getting paid to say so.

I also think the many gaming titles is great for someone that plays many titles. I am currently playing AC and nothing else. I own PC2 and ACC and literally never play them. Using SRS for PT would be just fine for my needs. If I get motion added then perhaps I will bother with ACC. I am limited in titles since I only use VR and games like F1 are clearly not being developed in the modern world

The SRS software seems to be pretty nice from the reviews I have seen. So yes, my question was regarding Gen1 D-Box vs current PT. Thanks

 

[Wodz30]

Because I wanted shorter Ethernet cables, I bought shorter high quality shielded cables.

Mate - I saw that you have the PT Actuator TensionR belt tension system, if that is correct. I am looking at purchasing that but want to swap out the stock belt with a nice Sabelt 6 point. Do you know if it is easy enough to change belts on that unit? I am having very difficult time to find any information online. Thanks

 

[metalnwood]

Mate - I saw that you have the PT Actuator TensionR belt tension system, if that is correct. I am looking at purchasing that but want to swap out the stock belt with a nice Sabelt 6 point. Do you know if it is easy enough to change belts on that unit? I am having very difficult time to find any information online. Thanks

Have a look at the simracing garage review of it on youtube. he opens it up and you can see what may be involved although it looks obvious they you would break a warranty seal they put on it.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Have a look at the simracing garage review of it on youtube. he opens it up and you can see what may be involved although it looks obvious they you would break a warranty seal they put on it.

A 6 point belt is a lot more comfortable. BTW do not get a fake 6 point Sabelt. They are much less expensive, but are crap. I gave mine away. I got a 6 point Crow and I believe it works better for a seat belt tensioner because the metal anchors can be removed easily, and straps are extremely easy to loosen and tighten.

Seems a bit short sighted to break the warranty to put a higher quality belt on.

 

[RCHeliguy]

But mate you are comparing the CURRENT D-Box platform with PT.

There are a few comparisons that are important.

1. SRS vs D-Box software since that is the brain driving the actuators. That is what determines how good it feels.

2. Whether you believe the current PT Actuator hardware has caught up with where D-Box was.

3. How well you are supported after the sale.

In the end it will come down to who you believe. It is a chunk of.money either way.

 

[OlaGB]

To those who think 1,5 is to little, have you actually tested?
And have you considered how far away from the rig the monitors has to be for clearing all the movement?

I only got a 2’’ travel system myself, and my motion settings are all under 50%. Run mostly track and rally.
FOV / monitor placement is perfect, and movement are enough to make me dizzy if i crank it up alittle. But most important, it replicates very close to what i excpect in real life.

I strongly believe that in motion, alittle goes a long way. And just forget about G-forces of a car right away, as that can not be replicated by systems like this.

Not saying PT is bad, just commented on amout of travel as sale point.

 

[ColinMac]

I've had both PT-A 150mm actuators (4 of) and now a 4 actuator D-Box setup.

I actually sold my bass shaker after fitting the d-Box kit as it simply wasn't needed. As mentioned above, the D-Box system is capable of really fine rumble detail on top of the movement, so it's neater in some ways.

I don't feel my current lower travel is any worse - I would rarely ever see my PT-A kit move massively, as too much movement is also distracting, and motion is there only really to underpin all the other stuff going on.

Both systems are vastly better than no motion, of course, but it's definitely a 'horses for courses' situation - is your monitor attached, or separate, for instance, makes a huge difference to the sensation of movement.

If I can help at all, whilst trying to be subjective, ask away. As always it will be limited to my experiences, but I'll help if I can.

 

[NetLawMan]

I've had both PT-A 150mm actuators (4 of) and now a 4 actuator D-Box setup.

I actually sold my bass shaker after fitting the d-Box kit as it simply wasn't needed. As mentioned above, the D-Box system is capable of really fine rumble detail on top of the movement, so it's neater in some ways.

I don't feel my current lower travel is any worse - I would rarely ever see my PT-A kit move massively, as too much movement is also distracting, and motion is there only really to underpin all the other stuff going on.

Both systems are vastly better than no motion, of course, but it's definitely a 'horses for courses' situation - is your monitor attached, or separate, for instance, makes a huge difference to the sensation of movement.

If I can help at all, whilst trying to be subjective, ask away. As always it will be limited to my experiences, but I'll help if I can.

View attachment 546979

Where did you get those Dbox brackets? I have been looking for something that would get my actuators a bit wider. The sim lab website only shows the brackets those hold the actuators right up against the frame.

 

[ColinMac]

Where did you get those Dbox brackets? I have been looking for something that would get my actuators a bit wider. The sim lab website only shows the brackets those hold the actuators right up against the frame.

Actually came with the actuators. Likely supplied from D-Box - they're gen2, so perhaps they changed the type for newer kit?

 

[Beef36]

Where did you get those Dbox brackets? I have been looking for something that would get my actuators a bit wider. The sim lab website only shows the brackets those hold the actuators right up against the frame.

Simcore also sell D-Box brackets. I'm curious why you want to move the actuators further away from the sim rig?

 

[NetLawMan]

Simcore also sell D-Box brackets. I'm curious why you want to move the actuators further away from the sim rig?

The ideal arrangement for dbox are a square pattern and 80/20 rigs are rather narrow (from to back)

 

[metalnwood]

To those who think 1,5 is to little, have you actually tested?
And have you considered how far away from the rig the monitors has to be for clearing all the movement?

Yes, I have tested and I think above I may have said its far too little. Well thats wrong that its far too little because obviously its still pretty good.

Like you I am in the camp that you dont need a lot of motion to make motion good so in that respect I dont have it jumping all round like a mad man. I wouldn't use more than 1.5" for normal effects but more than 1.5" could be used when mixing effect. I am in VR so monitors are not an issue for me but I would tend to think that a lot of movement without monitors on the rig would be a bit weird for me so I think I would agree with you there too.

4" or 6" in my view doesnt mean more motion/faster motion/ exaggerating movements but it gives you more range to mix. An example being daytona road course, I am not going to have it really violent, I imagine most of my motion is like yours except when I hit the steeply banked oval and I can maintain that pitch while still having enough travel to not compromise the other bumps, slide/sway, whatever may happen.

In flight it certainly makes a difference if you are in to flight simulators as well.