Community Question | FFB or No FFB?

[G_B]

I was around in the 80's with a lot of gay friends so back then that was one serious question !

I was clumsy, I wanted to say that forcefeedback was maybe too dangerous for some people and without it it was very sad to drive.

 

[Azorath]

instead of turning off the FFB, switch to a gamepad for instant left lock to right lock turning speed why just turning it off?

 

[Jiltjes]

Ask the person on the receiving end

What? I'm going to ask my wheel how it feels?

 

[BP]

A T300, T500, CSL and CSW will already accellerate a lot faster, without coming nearly into the DD-Sector.
I have a "collection" of the InterAct V4, Microsoft Sidewinder non-FFB, 2 retired Logitech MOMO, -G27 and a CSW 2.5 (also a CSL before), so had some toys at hand here to test and especially the difference between the Logitech MOMO and CSL or CSW 2.5 is not even sanely descibeable. There are simply no words for it, how far this has become (also software wise) (I actually tend to take my hands off the CSW, when spinning hard or crashing with "jolty" games)

I was gonna include the Fanatec CSW v2.5 as well as that was my previous wheel, but even jumping from that to a DD was a significant step up and I was quite surprised by it...some underplay the DD upgrade value, but IME it can mean the difference between saving the car and losing it in an endurance race on dead tyres depending on the situation, corrections are much easier to perform, it almost does it by itself actually.

 

[atomed]

OSW FFB at full range, vibration, sim motion and turn the heater on. Plus I call my mother in law while driving to play the pitcrew role, I need the suffering feeling for the immersion.

 

[CrimsonEminence]

some underplay the DD upgrade value, but IME it can mean the difference between saving the car and losing it in an endurance race on dead tyres depending on the situation, corrections are much easier to perform, it almost does it by itself actually.

Depends on what you want, i think. If you want more peak torque and the most dynamic range, possible, a DD is the best, you can get. If you're fine with much detail and decent forces, a consumer belt-driven wheel might be more than enough already.^^ The CSW 2.5 already does it too good for me. I often even go down with ingame gain, more than i ever did before, because the self alligning is more than sufficient and it even punches me load of front suspension (with vibrations, forces and movements) in my face with a fist

and turn the heater on.

No worries, with a GTE or GT3, you can turn it off and turn on a fan or AC

 

[ivanalesi]

With some cars, you can go much quicker if you lower down the FFB! If the cars IRL have power steering, then you need very low levels of FFB... i.e. all modern F1 cars and IMHO all GT3/4s.

 

[RasmusP]

@BP I have used the Logitech 3 MOMO Force Feedback wheel (old) and more recently (currently) the Thrustmaster TMX Pro. The problem for me is that the first half-cycle motion of opposite lock is usually fine, but on the counter-motion the belt or gears are producing way too much resistance making the motion unrealistically slow! This part of realism matters to me much more than "immersion"!

I don't know the MOMO but I can tell you that when I tried the TMX Pro at a store I was like "What is this? Almost-dry-concrete-mode?!"
T300 would be miles better already! Fanatec CSL or CSW are almost too light.. More about that in the second half of my post hehe.

I have too many kids for my wife to not kill me if I spent that much money on myself! (irony that people talked about condoms a few posts up )

@BP But anyhow, if this issue is gone with DD wheels then yes, I'd be using FFB with those. It is just that I like Formula racing and to me (I like bite on the front and things oversteery) I can't deal with how much the mechanical FFB wheels slow my fast steering down. Therefore, I race without it. And I am sure I am missing an entire additional info channel on what the car does but I have tried and was quite unhappy with (mechanical) FFB

I have a Fanatec CSW 2.5 and I used a Thrustmaster TS-PC for 2 weeks before buying the Fanatec.
Let me tell you this:
In Dirt Rally 2.0, the Thrustmaster felt better due to the little bit higher resistance.
The Dirt FFB sadly isn't the best and my Fanatec wheel was just too light /smooth when driving straight on a narrow road!
There was nothing to "rest your arms against" so you always moved a little bit left and right without noticing, since there was no resistance...

You can increase the general resistance of the wheel in the settings but then the resistance becomes too much when having to correct multiple times, as you said.

The Thrustmaster TS-PC however had quite a high resistance when turning slowly but it became much lower resistance when turning swiftly.

Sadly it had really annoying coil whine that I even heard when using headphones. Got a replacement but the coil whine was even worse.

Then bought the Fanatec and albeit not being 100% silent, it's so quiet that I can't hear anything when using speakers on low volume.

This resistance problem is not an issue with other sims. First they are just not as twitchy as dirt rally, second you have a minimum force setting in almost every one of them so if it's too light in the center, just give it 0.5-1.5% min force.
In dirt rally the straight line issue could be solved by setting the ffb a lot higher. But then you'd become overpowered from the ffp when you hit a bump...

 

[JimLee]

Not trying to change the subject, BUT does anyone drive with no audio ? Maybe I am missing something to go faster No FFB/Audio combined ( you know like no distractions)??

 

[CrimsonEminence]

Sadly it had really annoying coil whine that I even heard when using headphones. Got a replacement but the coil whine was even worse.

Solved with motor firmware 22 btw...

 

[ziogzzz]

Where did from such stupid question came here? People are getting more stupid everyday or what? Ofcourse FFB is needed, nobody would play racing games here without ffb.... world is going to stupidity on maximum

 

[F_B]

Not trying to change the subject, BUT does anyone drive with no audio ? Maybe I am missing something to go faster No FFB/Audio combined ( you know like no distractions)??

Also…next survey might be about ”Eyes: do you drive with them open or closed?"

 

[BP]

Depends on what you want, i think. If you want more peak torque and the most dynamic range, possible, a DD is the best, you can get. If you're fine with much detail and decent forces, a consumer belt-driven wheel might be more than enough already.^^ The CSW 2.5 already does it too good for me. I often even go down with ingame gain, more than i ever did before, because the self alligning is more than sufficient and it even punches me load of front suspension (with vibrations, forces and movements) in my face with a fist

Agree with you, but to be clear I don't run my DD wheel at 100% power, far from it. I run the DD at around 40% which would be slightly stronger than max CSW level of torque, but with more useful details and less oscillation.

It is just that I like Formula racing and to me (I like bite on the front and things oversteery) I can't deal with how much the mechanical FFB wheels slow my fast steering down. Therefore, I race without it. And I am sure I am missing an entire additional info channel on what the car does but I have tried and was quite unhappy with (mechanical) FFB

Trust me I'm a big open-wheel fan...did the AC Indycar series RD hosted recently and just came from driving the new IR-01 V10 formula in iRacing...both are incredible feeling cars and IMO that last car would be uncontrollable and nowhere near as fun without FFB. You can progressively feel when the rear is about to snap on you or if you're really on the limit...I saved that car so many times in the 34 lap race I ran last night at Suzuka. More benefits than drawbacks when FFB is setup right.

 

[LeSunTzu]

Also…next survey might be about ”Eyes: do you drive with them open or closed?"

You don't need eyes, the Force is with you.

 

[Bram Goossens]

my first wheel 30years back (T2 thrustmaster) had just elastic resistance..

why go back on a hint some alien claims...
next step VR ,keep movin forward

 

[RasmusP]

Not trying to change the subject, BUT does anyone drive with no audio ? Maybe I am missing something to go faster No FFB/Audio combined ( you know like no distractions)??

I strictly only listen to white noise on noice canceling headphones to go completely Zen-style

Solved with motor firmware 22 btw...

You mean the csw 2.5 motor firmware 22?
I remember reading about it in the fanatec forums.

Or do you really mean there was a motor firmware update for thrustmaster ts-pc?

 

[BenKay]

Some say they prefer racing with their computers turned off.

Do you prefer racing with or without power to your PC?

 

[metalnwood]

If esports people are doing it without FFB to get faster then IMO it's a joke. In one of my sports, practical shooting, there are rules like minimum power factor for your caliber so that you are not gaming it, you are closer to 'simulating' in what you are doing.

Imagine a real race car driver that was able to blank out his windshield and install a screen driven by a camera, magically remove all g forces and have a wheel with no feeling . The drink dispenser dispenses coke and cheetos. Why would they do it, they are no longer racing they are gaming.

If thats what the do in esports, as far as I am concerned they are gaming it not simulating. Maybe at that level they should look at some consistency and maybe try and simulate some of what really happens?

 

[Kurupt CDN]

What? I'm going to ask my wheel how it feels?

No, the person on the receiving end of the strap on. Sex is a two way road....unless your playing with yourself or blow up dolls

 

[LibranRabbit]

Is this question, research for Project Cars 4?