Community Question | FFB or No FFB?

[acidburn82uk]

No FFB should be made illegal

Along with driving lines and chase cam...

 

[Brent Mills]

I actually thought this was a joke question at first. Takes 'scraping the barrel' for news content to giddy heights.

Been waiting for the highly relevant discussion to get going regarding codies being taken over by EA, but no we get this???

 

[Majuh]

sad gamepad noises

 

[Evert Geurtsen]

My wheelbase failed earlier this year and I had no FFB but the inputs still worked. My times didn't suffer as much as I had expected and I did still qualify for two R3E Cupra races but it was more difficult. In a race when the tyre conditions deteriorate and you get forced of the ideal line I think that it is a lot more difficult without FFB.

 

[Eric Rowland]

Can FFB be a placebo of sorts?
There are some titles where FFB is an afterthought to the developers (you know who)
and a few who will put the time in.
Unfortunately great FFB is rare but when it's good, that feeling you get......yeah it's worth the money I spent...

 

[RasmusP]

One thing that makes this clear:
Drifting is not possible without ffb, since the wheel won't spin into opposite lock.

Says it all, doesn't it?

 

[Gate Voltage]

I drive without because I can't stand the unrealistic hinderance to multiple quick opposite lock corrections I might need to do (though the first one is usually fine with FFB)

It is very clear my opinion is the minority but apart from the above reason I also think that FFB is a driving help/assistance not really grounded in reality in a lot of modelled cars that have no fully mechanical steering, e.g. have electronic or power steering (modern formula cars etc.) So if anything, to me FFB is in the same group of aids as chase cam or driving lines as chase cams, completely opposite of the opinion above (acidburn82uk)

 

[mantasisg]

I think you get an extra sense using no ffb as that you can still feel when your on the limits, was like that anyway for me before we had rumble gamepads etc

it is the opposite

but the know truth is that when people loose senses other becomes sharper

in terms of ffb stuff, I have recently understood that besides all the underlying physics influence, one big factor of how it feels is anticipation and your own ability to react. For example if you will be slow and with low ability to anticipate same feedback can feel proactive and wrong comparing to a case if you become proactive over ffb yourself or get in tune with it. I have also found that it depends on enthusiasm and mood. The second you feel like not that much enthusiastic about driving, you loose sharpness and focus, car starts feeling bad and you become prone to do a mistake.

 

[nicky stevenson]

soup with a spoon or a fork,,,, let me think

 

[mantasisg]

One thing that makes this clear:
Drifting is not possible without ffb, since the wheel won't spin into opposite lock.

Says it all, doesn't it?

Not true, you can rotate it yourself, but that of course is not as practical and not as realistic to how much degrees has to be rotated in very little time and how it happens irl

this being said my g25 used not to be fast enough and needed additional "help" to rotate quicker.

but yeah you are right for drifting its quite necessary, but for powersliding not as much

 

[Jiltjes]

This is almost blasphemy... It is like having sex with a strap on.... Whats the point?

 

[Ryan Soucy]

"Eyes and ears"?! I'll do you one better and I don't even listen to the audio. Sure, I'm terrible. Truly useless at racing. But its important that I stay a purist.

 

[DeuxAlpha]

I don't play racing games just to be the quickest on track. Immersion through graphics, sounds, physics and ffb is the most important factor for me.

Exactly. May as well play FIFA otherwise... EDIT: Whoops, wrong quote lmao

 

[BeliacosGR]

Driving without FFB is like drinking a non alcohol beer

P.S.

Not 100% FFB obviously

 

[Dirk Steffen]

but some argue racing without can be quicker

Some argue that the earth is flat, which doesn't make it a valid base of a discussion.

Some argue that there is indeed a Santa Clause and that is how they magically receive their presents, neatly arranged under a tree, …. well we all do grow up at some point.

Some argue …

In news media this is what is called the symptoms of a slow news day.
Isn't that Bell guy announcing anything news worthy?
Isn't Studio123 having a new report of ongoing development announcements?
Hasn't any studio released any game update that can be picked apart by opposing tribes of different video games in thorough fashion?

Anything?

From the top of my head, there is this Aussie guy having recently built a triple screen rig with triple 65" 4K screens with some interesting input.
There has been a 9h race at Kyalami.
There are more and more and more interesting racing leagues organizing more and more professionally run racing leagues and endurance racing events.
There has been the SRO Asia competition with ACC with some seriously good racing.
There has been another fresh build of the Custom Shaders Patch with a rainFX release that actually enables full weather in AC in multiplayer sessions - a very interesting preview of what is about to come to the general public.
There have been a couple of interesting recently released mods, tracks and cars for AC (where are the regular Best Mods / Editors choice mod reports on RD?).
There are a ton of different reasons to report about sim racing related events and developments related to current news with many countries around the planet under yet even stricter Covid related measures.
There is the long Christmas holidays coming up and plenty of reasons NOW (not in 1 or two weeks) to write up articles about simracing related Christmas present ideas, Christmas related sim racing events and developments.

Why waste precious space on the top page for a simracing etherial clickbait piece like that ?

… and why have I clicked and responded to it?

NO, … I will not click the poll … no, NO!

 

[gecco]

Arguably, the better question would have been "How much FFB to go with?"

I do have doubts that one would be quickest without any FFB, but I know, at least this is my very own experience, that FFB can hold you back, if set to realistic levels. Due to the jolts the wheel can give you from kerbs and undulations in the road, your precision does actually suffer. However if one is not looking for the "immersion factor", he can turn down the FFB to still give all the vital clues, but not in a disturbing manner.
While being slow in absolute terms, relatively spoken, I was fastest and most consistent after upgrading to a load cell brake, and while still having my Thurstmaster T300 with the paddle shifters.
After upgrading to the Simucube, the immersion factor went through the roof, but my lap times suffered, as I was much more effected from the road surface, steep kerbs, and in general the weight transfer of the chassis.
Hitting a steep kerb at speed in an old high downforce car with the T300, you would still feel it through the wheel, but with merely 2-3Nm your arm muscles simply suck it up, and you might indeed gain a faster lap time.
With the Simucube DD, in the same situation, the wheel can give you a jolt worth 20-25Nm, and you would easily come off line, or even spin out because of it. In any case, you quickly learn to stay well clear from certain killer kerbs, just like they usually do in real life.

So if I were a young aspiring e-racer (and not the middle aged sunday driver that I am) I'd set my sights on a DD wheel, and turn the FFB down most of the way. This would be fastest I suppose.

Fun fact: While simracers strive for stronger FFB from direct drive wheels to immerse themselves more, real life motorsport has introduced power steering in almost most classes these days, to reduce driver fatigue, and enhance precision

 

[Cote Dazur]

From the resultt of the poll, it is obvious that beside a few marginals, we all prefer FFB over no FFB. As imperfect as FFB is.
I am mainly reading the thread to read why anyone would not use FFB, so far nothing interesting to read.

Even though we all want FFB and use FFB, it is fair to say that we all want better FFB. Better as in more realistic, more like what we feel when driving IRL, or better as in more informative, as an assist to drive faster.

Either way, we know by now a stronger, faster, wheel is not going to improve much on the FFB coding, the answer to our continuous quest of better FFB will come from different coding from a next generation SIM.

As we are waiting for a very necessary development, the choice is between different developers interpretations of an imperfect simulation, pick up your favorite poison and enjoy the ride.

 

[Mr Deap]

The topic creator have experienced magical new exploit to go faster by turning off the FFB? Thus the weird poll post.

I wonder, if turning off FFB in, console only, game also work.

 

[CrimsonEminence]

The topic creator have experienced magical new exploit to go faster by turning off the FFB?

ACC actually had this exploit in early access.

No-FFB is a bit, like a car without any bump steer, there is a reasonable thinking behind it for fast consistent lapping at least and it can improve your pecision, to just have a bungee cord steering, instead of a wheel, that yanks around.

 

[Sasha Jednak]

Some argue that there is indeed a Santa Clause and that is how they magically receive their presents, neatly arranged under a tree, …. well we all do grow up at some point.

Whaaat?! Nooooooooooooooooo
P.S. I was waiting him to bring me few tenths in race pace this year.