Buying advice please - Next Level v3 Motion Platform

[MarkR]

I'm looking for some advice and thoughts of other owners or people with good knowledge of the product, please.

I always said I'd buy myself a motion simulator if I could afford one and had the room available. Well, that day may have arrived. I'm impressed by what I've seen of the Next Level v3 Motion Platform

This seems to meet all my criteria:

+ Limited space requirements, I don't have room for a huge sim rig but this seems compact enough to work.
+ Works with Oculus Rift VR, that fixed head position setting solution is impressive
+ Great support and regular updates from the developers
+ Available in the UK
+ Works with my current Thrustmaster wheel and accessories.
+ Sub £3k for the full setup, I'm not a pro racer I'm not looking for a practice simulator this is just for fun so the cost/fun balance has to be right.

So help me do the man maths! Is it worth it?

Is there another similar product I should also look at? It would need to be reasonably compact, work with VR, available in the UK without too much hassle and in the same £3-5K price range.

Is there anywhere I can try one or even better several of the systems in the UK?

 

[Mr Latte]

Are we talking about using these feet to isolate the rig from the floor or in between the rig and the shakers? If the latter, how would that work? I think with the V3 it's going to be hard to get optimum mounting and isolation due to the seat actually moving. On a static rig you don't need to worry about clearance, weight on the seat and all that. Like I mentioned above on my static rig I had shakers bolted directly under my seat. Impossible with the V3.

I am going to aim to have my GT1 cockpit look almost the same as the one I have now in relation to how the shakers are mounted. The only thing that I think I could do is separate the left and right shakers of both the front and the back. Maybe kick them out to the side rather than the rear but this would a) look way worse and b) get in the way when my rig is in my new room where access alongside the rig is limited.

Tactile is a super tricky thing to get right and I feel that how I have it now, as long as the feeling is the same on my new rig as it is on the old one, would be a win for me. Plus, in that link those parts are as much as each of my shakers!

The feet for the rig is what we would refer to as secondary isolation from a tactile perspective.
This rig via even the motion may generate quite a bit of vibration noise/energy. So yes antivibration feet for some peoples homes/room this is used could be a good idea. We can also have a small platform the rig is on, say 1-3" high and that use specific antivibration materials to further trap and prevent vibrations in say an apartment/flat.

The primary isolation is to isolate the seat that is getting the tactile or this can also be a pedal section.
You can improve your current tactile but even consider building/implementing now a method that if you ever did decide to upgrade the tactile this would also help bring more enjoyable or detailed tactile immersion.

.

 

[Mr Latte]

Do you still advise using these isolators to separate the tactile platforms from the rig?
http://www.shakercentre.co.uk/aspbi...tProductsID=14&content=rubber_isolator_rdb220

Or have you already found a better solution? Still not sure how to isolate the NLV3 + Buttkickers on plate + Seat from the rig.
Thanks!

TI 200 model comes in various weight/compounds
The 120 based model would suffice and not be as hard.

Info 1
Info 2 & links

What would be best is if one or more of you are implementing new builds to then in those threads (not here) or a joint thread for VR3 installation onto 8020 go into things with more detailed discussion.

What I would say is none of the 8020 based cockpit companies do anything focused with tactile in mind. I have helped so far 3 online members in the past with tactile on VR3 and using basic tactile upto installing two of the biggest (heaviest) BK LFE on a GS4 as well.

I believe its possible to have a tactile isolation platform fixed between the seat and the VR3.
One that looks professional, maintains the tactile better and can withstand all the motion strain/forces.
Think more creativity can be done here than already by some solutions others have done.

Will help where I can but guys, with a bit of effort something rather special is possible.

 

[Mascot]

Brilliant sollution. Looking forward to the photos, hope you find the time to share it with us!

Will you be attaching some tactile transducers to your seat in the future? Any thoughts on that?

I've got a BK Gamer 2 that I'll be sticking somewhere, but that's about it for now.

 

[Furnace Inferno]

Definitely get some pictures up @Mascot , do all the figuring out and testing so that I can copy you when I get mine .

 

[anton_Chez]

@Mascot that is a great idea. I had problems with my COG before I had a technician explain it all to me and how important it is to have the seat in the correct position relative to the V3. So your idea is absolutely brilliant and I am wanting to know where you got that piece from, as I am willing to shell out for that too now. I love the idea of moving the seat and V3 as a unit and although you shouldn't really need to once you're all set up (using your pedals as more of an adjustment once you have distance to the wheel sorted) doing it this way removes any chance of COG being incorrect or a problem for operation.

The setup should be super similar to the GT1, the only thing is the side rails are 80mm profile and not massive 160mm, so I don't have as much of a 'hole' to drop the platform into, either. But, this is offset by the fact that the profiles are not that high from the ground to begin with, so placement really far down on the inside of the rail is not really a priority. I sort of already had a solution to mount mine (the Jeremy method) but I am taking feedback from others before it all gets here and I like the ideas so far.

I am in Australia, I want to find a part similar (or exactly) to your one.

 

[Mascot]

@Mascot that is a great idea. I had problems with my COG before I had a technician explain it all to me and how important it is to have the seat in the correct position relative to the V3. So your idea is absolutely brilliant and I am wanting to know where you got that piece from, as I am willing to shell out for that too now. I love the idea of moving the seat and V3 as a unit and although you shouldn't really need to once you're all set up (using your pedals as more of an adjustment once you have distance to the wheel sorted) doing it this way removes any chance of COG being incorrect or a problem for operation.

The setup should be super similar to the GT1, the only thing is the side rails are 80mm profile and not massive 160mm, so I don't have as much of a 'hole' to drop the platform into, either. But, this is offset by the fact that the profiles are not that high from the ground to begin with, so placement really far down on the inside of the rail is not really a priority. I sort of already had a solution to mount mine (the Jeremy method) but I am taking feedback from others before it all gets here and I like the ideas so far.

I am in Australia, I want to find a part similar (or exactly) to your one.

In the UK you can buy short lengths of aluminium angle from eBay, but any local metal supplier would be able to chop you a couple of pieces. It comes in a wide variety of profiles, but a 2" horizontal leg seems ideal based on the width of the NLV3 and dimensions of the Sim Lab P1.

I'll put nylon washers under the top fixings to make fore/aft sliding easier and reduce scratches during movement when the fixings have been loosened.

 

[Mascot]

^^ This is all still theoretical at this stage, remember. I won't really know if it'll work until everything arrives next week - there may be clearance issues with my Sparco R333 that limit the fixing height. If I had more time I'd model it properly in SketchUp.

 

[anton_Chez]

So if I understand correctly, you need to attach piece of profile inside the cockpit along the 160mm side rails to be able to sit the bottom edge of your angle bracket on. If not a piece of profile, then some angle brackets, maybe 3, along the length of the bracket. Looking at the P1 pics, you would be getting rid of the seat frame altogether on top, and dropping the unit inside. To do that you need something to mount the horizontal edge (the one the runs along level with the floor) to. You should be able to get the pieces of profile and the angle brackets that make up the seat platform to do this for you, but you most likely will need to cut something a little shorter to make it all fit. If that piece the runs along under the wheel mount can be moved slightly forward, you should need no modifications and will just need to mount the seat frame inside the chassis rather than on top.

 

[Mascot]

So if I understand correctly, you need to attach piece of profile inside the cockpit along the 160mm side rails to be able to sit the bottom edge of your angle bracket on. If not a piece of profile, then some angle brackets, maybe 3, along the length of the bracket. Looking at the P1 pics, you would be getting rid of the seat frame altogether on top, and dropping the unit inside. To do that you need something to mount the horizontal edge (the one the runs along level with the floor) to. You should be able to get the pieces of profile and the angle brackets that make up the seat platform to do this for you, but you most likely will need to cut something a little shorter to make it all fit. If that piece the runs along under the wheel mount can be moved slightly forward, you should need no modifications and will just need to mount the seat frame inside the chassis rather than on top.

No, all you need is two ~250mm lengths of 2" x 3" or 2" x 4" aluminium angle. The short leg of the angle bolts flush with the top horizontal face of your cockpit side-rails, and the long leg of the angle hangs down on the inside face of your cockpit side-rails. This long leg of the angle would be pre-bolted to the usual NLV3 fixing points (three per side, with a ~10mm spacer or M8 nut between the V3 and the angle) with the short legs at the top and facing outwards so that the whole assembly can be 'dropped' between the cockpit side rails, with the short leg of the aluminium angle stopping it dropping through to the floor by resting on the top of the cockpit side rails. This leg is then bolted to the nut channel on top of the cockpit rails, and these bolts can be loosened to slide the seat/V3 fore and aft before being tightened again to lock it in place.

All you need is two short lengths of aluminium angle.

I'll do a quick sketch in an hour or so.

 

[Mascot]

Here's the sketch.
Edit: two M8 fixings per side into the top of the cockpit profile should be enough - the sketch doesn't state the number.

 

[Mascot]

Here's the proposal in case opening PDFs is a problem:
(note: there should be two M8 fixings that connect the short leg of the angle to the top of the P1 side profile).

 

[Steve D]

Here's the sketch.
Edit: two M8 fixings per side into the top of the cockpit profile should be enough - the sketch doesn't state the number.

Really like your solution for mounting / suspending the V3 down inside the P1 with the added bonus of adjustability.

Will be interesting to see if there is any flex in that 1/4" angle once platform, seat and driver are in situ and the motion forces are active. Shouldn't be an issue though and you are spreading the load along the entire length by using a single piece of angle each side but a a fair bit of weight is being thrown around.

Enjoy the build, when it happens! Exciting times and Sim Labs product is first class, along with their service and it feels epic when it all comes together and you've made a few mods to put your own stamp on the rig. And with the V3, you'll take your enjoyment of sim racing to another level, especially with the intensity and post-processing profiles set up properly.

 

[anton_Chez]

Completely understand I was thinking the other way around. That's nice. Clean and simple. I might try and get a hold of the parts you mentioned and see if that's any better than the way that I was thinking. My rig only has the 80mm profile for the side rails so I may not need to have such a 'long' side on the L bracket at this would just get me into hitting the floor with the unit. Since you have already measured everything out, what would I then need to order to suit the 80mm profile as opposed to your 160mm in the P1? The difference in height (if we're talking in inches as you mentioned above) in the rail is around 3". So maybe if I just do a 2 x 2 inch L bracket it should be ok. If I am not not even using the seat frame, I could even just mount that 40mm profile on top of the 80mm profile and have my side rails effectively 120mm high instead of the 80 out of the box. Won't be using them anyway and this will alleviate any problems with clearance should they arise.

Side note:

I have also decided to ditch my current chassis mode Aura bass shaker set up for something a little simpler and easy to mount. I have ordered 2 x Buttkicker mini LFE and have ebayed my current units. This will be changed to extensions mode, one kicker at the rear and one at the pedals. @Mr Latte, just a quick confirmation that you still feel 1 SMSL amp 160W x 2 channels would suffice to power 2 mini's? I read that last year you thought this would be a good option for them, and seeing as I already own 2 of them, it would be an easy implementation. I wanted to bridge and use one for each but it won't work. Might cook something

 

[Mascot]

Really like your solution for mounting / suspending the V3 down inside the P1 with the added bonus of adjustability.

Will be interesting to see if there is any flex in that 1/4" angle once platform, seat and driver are in situ and the motion forces are active. Shouldn't be an issue though and you are spreading the load along the entire length by using a single piece of angle each side but a a fair bit of weight is being thrown around.

Enjoy the build, when it happens! Exciting times and Sim Labs product is first class, along with their service and it feels epic when it all comes together and you've made a few mods to put your own stamp on the rig. And with the V3, you'll take your enjoyment of sim racing to another level, especially with the intensity and post-processing profiles set up properly.

Yeah, I upped the thickness of the angle from 1/8" to 1/4" but it might be overkill. Better safe than sorry though. I think it'll be fine - the standard NLV3 side mounting plates are much thinner. If there is any flex I think it'll be due to the nylon washers at the top. These are only to protect the top of the P1 from marks during fore/aft sliding so something like self-adhesive barrier tape on the underside of the aluminium angle might be a more solid solution.

 

[Mascot]

Completely understand I was thinking the other way around. That's nice. Clean and simple. I might try and get a hold of the parts you mentioned and see if that's any better than the way that I was thinking. My rig only has the 80mm profile for the side rails so I may not need to have such a 'long' side on the L bracket at this would just get me into hitting the floor with the unit. Since you have already measured everything out, what would I then need to order to suit the 80mm profile as opposed to your 160mm in the P1? The difference in height (if we're talking in inches as you mentioned above) in the rail is around 3". So maybe if I just do a 2 x 2 inch L bracket it should be ok. If I am not not even using the seat frame, I could even just mount that 40mm profile on top of the 80mm profile and have my side rails effectively 120mm high instead of the 80 out of the box. Won't be using them anyway and this will alleviate any problems with clearance should they arise.

Are the internal dimensions of the GT1 the same as the P1? If so then yes, a shorter vertical leg on the angle should be fine.
Lateral slots (or oversized holes) would probably be a good idea for the top fixings to give some sideways tolerance adjustment during fitting.

 

[Mascot]

Does anyone with a V3 know whether there is any reason why the four slots in the image below (at 355mm and 270mm centres) cannot be expanded sideways (towards the centre of the unit) by 5mm each to give 345mm lateral fixing centres? Would there be sufficient clearance to still get fixings and washers in there? Would they foul anything? This would be necessary to match the standard bolt pattern of a bottom-fixed reclining sports seat.

Side views of the whole unit for reference:

 

[anton_Chez]

This is exactly what I have had to do with mine. I have drilled out those slots about 5mm extra inward to fit my Bride replica bucket recliner. There is room to still mount washers (needed because now the bolt head goes through the newly drilled out hole) and I have been using it this way for a while now. This is why Jeremy has used his implementation of mounting his seat to his V3 (with profile along the V3 mounting plate and then his seat to that profile), to bridge the slightly misaligned hole pattern, without the need to drill out holes.

 

[Mascot]

This is exactly what I have had to do with mine. I have drilled out those slots about 5mm extra inward to fit my Bride replica bucket recliner. There is room to still mount washers (needed because now the bolt head goes through the newly drilled out hole) and I have been using it this way for a while now. This is why Jeremy has used his implementation of mounting his seat to his V3 (with profile along the V3 mounting plate and then his seat to that profile), to bridge the slightly misaligned hole pattern, without the need to drill out holes.

Ah, good to hear. I don't want to add transverse channels as that will raise the seat height and CoG, so drilling is my preferred route. Did you unbolt the channels before drilling them to stop swarf getting into the V3, and if so, do they unbolt easily? No silly rivets anywhere?

The only complaint I've heard about the NLV3 is that mounting a seat to the rails can be a total pain in the ass, but I can't really see why this would be an issue once the slots are opened up. Why Next Level chose a non-standard bolt pattern totally baffles me though.

 

[anton_Chez]

I think it's designed to mount their (sh*t) seat to it with the slider they provide. I used the biggest (13mm) HSS drill bit to open up the hole. I didn't take anything off, I did it while it was all connected. I think I just used some rags or something else handy to cover all the vents on the unit in case shavings went anywhere they shouldn't. Just be careful to not use anything bigger than 13mm as I am already quite close to the edge. Not dangerously close but I was getting ready to order new plates as I was doing it... It all worked out though. I think I had to work around the hole too to open it up a little more than 13mm because it was still a tad off. I think. I am now bolted onto my seat slider (which I also needed to drill out to make it all work) and then the seat is mounted properly to that.

So, in reality, when it comes to mounting on the GT1 (which by the way is around 100mm wider than the P1, to answer a previous question regarding the mounting with the angle bracket) I am getting rid of the slider (which is pretty borked now from the bigger holes) and mounting directly to an unadulterated seat. Worst case would be to completely cover the existing drilled out holes on the top plate with another piece of decent thickness hard metal with nicer drilled holes that align with the slightly mangled drilled out holes on the top plate. Then, you eliminate the need for washers to hold bolt heads in place, and have a clean round hole where you need it with the load still spread across the length of each of the two top plates. Worst case.

If I can get my platform a little lower than I originally intended, with your angle bracket solution, I think I will just stick with my original plan of mounting some profile across the plates to bridge the gap of the dodgy holes and also try to mount some rubber islolators in there for good measure to help with tactile. I guess it all depends how my seat lines up with the already drilled out holes. I am tempted to just rip it apart tomorrow and start sussing out options for removing the slider and putting rubber isolation in its place, before the rig even gets here. Sort of don't want to drive on my old cockpit anymore anyway!

 

[Mascot]

I think it's designed to mount their (sh*t) seat to it with the slider they provide. I used the biggest (13mm) HSS drill bit to open up the hole. I didn't take anything off, I did it while it was all connected. I think I just used some rags or something else handy to cover all the vents on the unit in case shavings went anywhere they shouldn't. Just be careful to not use anything bigger than 13mm as I am already quite close to the edge. Not dangerously close but I was getting ready to order new plates as I was doing it... It all worked out though. I think I had to work around the hole too to open it up a little more than 13mm because it was still a tad off. I think. I am now bolted onto my seat slider (which I also needed to drill out to make it all work) and then the seat is mounted properly to that.

So, in reality, when it comes to mounting on the GT1 (which by the way is around 100mm wider than the P1, to answer a previous question regarding the mounting with the angle bracket) I am getting rid of the slider (which is pretty borked now from the bigger holes) and mounting directly to an unadulterated seat. Worst case would be to completely cover the existing drilled out holes on the top plate with another piece of decent thickness hard metal with nicer drilled holes that align with the slightly mangled drilled out holes on the top plate. Then, you eliminate the need for washers to hold bolt heads in place, and have a clean round hole where you need it with the load still spread across the length of each of the two top plates. Worst case.

If I can get my platform a little lower than I originally intended, with your angle bracket solution, I think I will just stick with my original plan of mounting some profile across the plates to bridge the gap of the dodgy holes and also try to mount some rubber islolators in there for good measure to help with tactile. I guess it all depends how my seat lines up with the already drilled out holes. I am tempted to just rip it apart tomorrow and start sussing out options for removing the slider and putting rubber isolation in its place, before the rig even gets here. Sort of don't want to drive on my old cockpit anymore anyway!

Wow, I didn't realise the GT1 was 100mm wider than the P1. I wonder why that is? My aluminium angle fixing solution would need you to have a 4" horizontal leg then to take up two extra inches on each side. You might be OK with the same angle profile that I'm using (4" x 2") but flipping it around so the legs are reversed.