Best Motion system with VR compensation?

[vannib]

I've been running an NLRv3 for 3 years now exclusively in VR and I've never run motion compensation. Since the seat pivots on a centered universal joint and your neck tends to behave like a gimbal, your head tends to stay centered naturally.

Heave, traction loss and surge tend to cause the most issues with VR compensation. VR either uses fixed light houses or needs a wall to see for inside out tracking. As a result you either extrapolate mathematically how this impacts VR or you put a motion tracker on the rig used as a reference.

Over the last few years I've seen a number of people put chassis movers on their rigs and if they started with an NLRv3 on it, they inevitably remove it and keep just the chassis motion system.

Without having ever tried an actuator system, but having a V3, i can totally understand why you would remove it. I am actually planning on selling it cause as much as i like it, it stops me from confidently applying full brake force, and that's a big drawback on my rig.

I was actually looking, for the distant future, at a 6DOF PT actuators, or 5DOF with the LowRider thing.

 

[RCHeliguy]

Without having ever tried an actuator system, but having a V3, i can totally understand why you would remove it. I am actually planning on selling it cause as much as i like it, it stops me from confidently applying full brake force, and that's a big drawback on my rig.

I was actually looking, for the distant future, at a 6DOF PT actuators, or 5DOF with the LowRider thing.

Brake force is the big limiting factor of the NLRv3. I'm running 55kg max brake right now and the NLRv3 is happy with that. However if you get some higher load cell rated brakes and end up at 70-80kg the NLRv3 will shut down. I've even had mind shut down when I panic braked and pressed passed what I needed for 100%, but it hasn't been a real problem for me.

I assumed I would eventually end up with a 6DOF type setup, but I found with a G-Belt to give me a solid sense of how hard I was braking, and the tactile system I've got now, I'm very satisfied. The sense of being in the car in VR with a serious tactile system is very compelling. I would lose motion before I would lose the tactile feelings I have now. However I do like what my NLRv3 adds for rally and flight. On a track it adds a little, but is definitely in a supporting rather than primary role.

 

[Brett Horton]

How is the floor vibration?

Can't really answer that one as I am on a concrete slab (Florida)

 

[karloy]

First few days with the Mega+, impressions so far:

• Very solid build quality and motor, can lift my fairly heavy rig without any issues. It doesn't come across from photos how solid they are.
• Still need to do a bit of cable connecting, including getting the servos installed in a 6u rack, but generally everything you need comes with the package (e.g. country specific power cables)
• Thanos Controller comes with a lot of information from Thanos, firmware upgrade was straightforward
• Sim Racing Studio needs a bit of tuning, the defaults are rough. The community rated cloud profiles are a big help, gets you up to running quickly - once it's tuned, very nice suspension feeling
• Haptics - not as pronounced as my transducers. Keep my 4 small Dayton PUCK Tactile Transducers and the buttkicker through simhub. Blends in nicely.
• Also kept the NLR v3 in the installation. Using it to primary to emphasize surge, and just a tiny bit of sway and road bumps, everything else turned off. It seems to work well. Definitely didn't feel right when using it with the regular NLRv3 settings, mega+ and NLR v3 are competing. I also don't like a too aggressive surge with the actuators, with 150 MM the nose of the rig can dive quite a bit, and making it more match a suspension and use the NLR v3 for the g-force effect seems better. I assume a belt system would do the same.
• Generally, the more you can match the actuators to be like a suspension, the better it feels. I can confirm the d-box and Sigma statement that you don't need all that travel, but I don't mind having it just in case.
• Compatibility wooden construction floor - this was the tipping point to move the rig to a concrete floor, the rapid floor pressure of the actuators and heavy rig didn't feel safe anymore, everything was shaking during an initial test.
• VR motion compensation - pleasantly surprised, the SRS system with OVRMC is very configurable, and i was able to create motion compensation covering the actuator and the seat mover.

Obviously I can't compare it with other systems, but very happy so far. I see the statements of the other system be validated as well in regards to travel needed, and the importance of haptics (d-box), but can't beat the value and satisfied with the final combination. Thanks everyone for chiming in here.

 

[Clover11]

• Compatibility wooden construction floor - this was the tipping point to move the rig to a concrete floor, the rapid floor pressure of the actuators and heavy rig didn't feel safe anymore, everything was shaking during an initial test.

Can you add some more details about this? I just finished connecting everything for my RS Mega kit to my rig. I still need to update the servo controller parameters and do all the software side but have my rig in a second story bedroom. I drive after my wife goes to bed in the opposite corner of the house and did not think the motion would make too much noise. Got me a little worried with this comment. Do you think that maybe turning off the tactile effects might make it livable on a second story?

 

[karloy]

Can you add some more details about this? I just finished hocking everything for my RS Mega kit to my rig. I still need to update the servo controller parameters and do all the software side but have my rig in a second story bedroom. I drive after my wife goes to bed in the opposite corner of the house and did not think the motion would make too much noise. Got me a little worried with this comment. Do you think that maybe turning off the tactile effects might make it livable on a second story?

I was listening to it underneath the room, and it was not tuned. Once you got it dialed down, it might be okay. On a solid floor, the system is very quiet. My calculation included the worry how much weight I am putting on four legs on wooden beams, and that I didn't want to compromise the experience too much by dialing everything down - though I bet a lot of people run it on wooden floors, in most cases you don't have an option.

 

[karloy]

I was listening to it underneath the room, and it was not tuned. Once you got it dialed down, it might be okay. On a solid floor, the system is very quiet. My calculation included the worry how much weight I am putting on four legs on wooden beams, and that I didn't want to compromise the experience too much by dialing everything down - though I bet a lot of people run it on wooden floors, in most cases you don't have an option.

Curious what your experience is once it is all setup @Clover11, seems like you are close.

 

[BigBen_JM]

I have the same experience with the Mega RS+. Works really well, I am surprised how silent they are (I am on a concrete floor). Still playing with all the settings though...... So many options....
For sim racing you probably do not need the 150MM but for flight sims it is really nice to have. I really thought I was hanging up-side-down in DCS in VR !

 

[crooksy]

In my opinion you shouldn't need it, if you do need it then it's a sign of a system that isn't setup correctly for VR or is using overly exaggerated effects to try to make up for inadequacies elsewhere such as wrongly simulate G Forces

 

[karloy]

First few days with the Mega+, impressions so far:

• Very solid build quality and motor, can lift my fairly heavy rig without any issues. It doesn't come across from photos how solid they are.
• Still need to do a bit of cable connecting, including getting the servos installed in a 6u rack, but generally everything you need comes with the package (e.g. country specific power cables)
• Thanos Controller comes with a lot of information from Thanos, firmware upgrade was straightforward
• Sim Racing Studio needs a bit of tuning, the defaults are rough. The community rated cloud profiles are a big help, gets you up to running quickly - once it's tuned, very nice suspension feeling
• Haptics - not as pronounced as my transducers. Keep my 4 small Dayton PUCK Tactile Transducers and the buttkicker through simhub. Blends in nicely.
• Also kept the NLR v3 in the installation. Using it to primary to emphasize surge, and just a tiny bit of sway and road bumps, everything else turned off. It seems to work well. Definitely didn't feel right when using it with the regular NLRv3 settings, mega+ and NLR v3 are competing. I also don't like a too aggressive surge with the actuators, with 150 MM the nose of the rig can dive quite a bit, and making it more match a suspension and use the NLR v3 for the g-force effect seems better. I assume a belt system would do the same.
• Generally, the more you can match the actuators to be like a suspension, the better it feels. I can confirm the d-box and Sigma statement that you don't need all that travel, but I don't mind having it just in case.
• Compatibility wooden construction floor - this was the tipping point to move the rig to a concrete floor, the rapid floor pressure of the actuators and heavy rig didn't feel safe anymore, everything was shaking during an initial test.
• VR motion compensation - pleasantly surprised, the SRS system with OVRMC is very configurable, and i was able to create motion compensation covering the actuator and the seat mover.

Obviously I can't compare it with other systems, but very happy so far. I see the statements of the other system be validated as well in regards to travel needed, and the importance of haptics (d-box), but can't beat the value and satisfied with the final combination. Thanks everyone for chiming in here.

Two noteworthy items after a week:
- Learning how to do manual SRS motion tuning is key - 150 mm is a lot of travel, it can be wild if you don't tune it to match something realistic.
- It felt okay with the NLR v3 in the mix, though it wasn't as core to the experience as I would have hoped. After I used the seat belt mod and only enabled surge, it feels A LOT better. Before it was a gentle push/pull from the seat during breaking and accelerating, with the belt it gets replaced with a more realistic g-force effect.

Seatbelt mod:

 

[metalnwood]

@karloy If you have ended up with the NLR only providing an effect to use the seatbelt then I would strongly advise to sell it and replace it with an active belt tensioner. It should cost you less than what you get for the seat mover and increase the effect by a lot.

 

[RCHeliguy]

@karloy If you have ended up with the NLR only providing an effect to use the seatbelt then I would strongly advise to sell it and replace it with an active belt tensioner. It should cost you less than what you get for the seat mover and increase the effect by a lot.

YES!!! THIS!!!!

I still use my NLRv3, but I've turned off the surge feature. It's not great being tilted forward anyway. If I had a chassis mover, I would drop my NLRv3 immediately.

My G-Belt is MUCH MUCH MUCH better at conveying braking forces and the belts tighten separately so you can feel more pressure on the outer shoulder in a corner.

What's also cool is you can feel the belt tension drop if you are losing traction and it can reinforce bumps as if you are being thrown up and they are holding you down and you can feel them as you are down shifting in the corner which can unsettle your car.

The bottom line is that you actually get lots of usable information that you can learn to use while you are driving. The tilt forward of the NLRv3 adds a bit of immersion, but completely fails in terms of giving you useful information that you can use to drive better.

 

[karloy]

Definitely valid feedback, a lot more cost effective - I do enjoy the experience though in VR, and I started to turn on some of the other seat effects with further tuning. My setup is not much different at this point compared to this rig, which used to have a seat in the mix as well and used the rubber band trick.

 

[karloy]

Here is my review after a few months - I kept the NLR v3 seat for the g-forces (tuned down with focus on surge, a bit of surge and a bit of road), and tuned down the Mega+ actuators to match the suspension movement. Tuned correctly, it feels right, and a good split - you don't want to use the actuators for g-forces, it doesn't feel right.

For OpenXR Motion Compensation, there now an open source solution which is compatible with the SRS WiMotion sensor setup - https://github.com/BuzzteeBear/OpenXR-MotionCompensation/releases/tag/v0.1.7-alpha

Very happy with the setup now.

 

[RCHeliguy]

The surge is the thing on the NLRv3 that annoyed me the most, I turned it way down. I ended up doing exactly what I mentioned in my last post. I added a D-Box Gen 5 system and then removed my NLRv3.

Removing the NLRv3 allowed me to use a seat slider without worrying about maintaining my center of gravity over the pivot point and it allowed me to use a full sized flight stick mounted to the chassis frame rather than moving with the seat. It also doesn't break immersion in flight sims when I'm putting rudder inputs to my flight pedals and the seat is moving around.

For track use and for Rally I'm much happier with just the chassis motion.

For flight, the NLRv3 was very good for following a helicopter cyclic stick. I've lost some of that. It was also better for large flight motion. So there have been compromises, but overall I'm happy with how everything is working now.

BTW my NLRv3 is sitting in the other room. I haven't sold it yet, but I haven't felt like I wanted to put it back on my rig. It was great as a solution by itself, but the compromises in keeping a seat mover after getting a chassis motion system were not worth it to me.

 

[Brett Horton]

How is the floor vibration?

Don't know, Dedicated Sim Room, in Florida, so a concrete slab. So Zero!

 

[karloy]

The surge is the thing on the NLRv3 that annoyed me the most, I turned it way down. I ended up doing exactly what I mentioned in my last post. I added a D-Box Gen 5 system and then removed my NLRv3.

Removing the NLRv3 allowed me to use a seat slider without worrying about maintaining my center of gravity over the pivot point and it allowed me to use a full sized flight stick mounted to the chassis frame rather than moving with the seat. It also doesn't break immersion in flight sims when I'm putting rudder inputs to my flight pedals and the seat is moving around.

For track use and for Rally I'm much happier with just the chassis motion.

For flight, the NLRv3 was very good for following a helicopter cyclic stick. I've lost some of that. It was also better for large flight motion. So there have been compromises, but overall I'm happy with how everything is working now.

BTW my NLRv3 is sitting in the other room. I haven't sold it yet, but I haven't felt like I wanted to put it back on my rig. It was great as a solution by itself, but the compromises in keeping a seat mover after getting a chassis motion system were not worth it to me.

Yes, I wouldn't lead with the combination if I didn't own it. If the seat mover breaks, I would replace with belt system which is much cheaper. My guess is the D-Box Gen 5 with the haptic more tuned that what you get out of the Mega+ system, there are some haptics with SRS, but it not as detailed as what I get from the transducers. What is nice is that NLR v3 added haptics recently, which is helpful as well when all tuned.

The OpenXR MC project is great though, I ended with a combination I don't feel like I need to further upgrade for a while.

With the right tuning, I ended up to get a lot faster in iRacing, especially when you feel the tyre slip - feels a bit like cheating ;-)

 

[RCHeliguy]

The haptics do some things well, but I use SimHub's wheel spin effect instead of haptics.

My rig has a BK-CT and TST-429 pair under the seat and another matching pair under my pedal deck as well as exciters on the back of my seat.

 

[karloy]

The haptics do some things well, but I use SimHub's wheel spin effect instead of haptics.

My rig has a BK-CT and TST-429 pair under the seat and another matching pair under my pedal deck as well as exciters on the back of my seat.

Those are some heavy duty transducers!

 

[RCHeliguy]

Those are some heavy duty transducers!

The whole thing is heavy duty