Automobilista 2 Released

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419
Cosmos
This is probably related to...

...this


The snappy oversteer is really what turns this sim in to a simcade imo. Would really like this to away but I doubt it :( Still hoping for a positive surprise in the future.


Take a look at this video 4 minutes in you can see the SCV8 bounce of the ground several times, this is not how suspension works, quite the opposite, it's suppose to prevent this from happening.

If you want to test a more extreme example of this for yourself, take a P3 car around Cadwell Park. Get up to speed and strange things will happen in turn 3 and 5.


I'm glad that so many of you are enjoying AMS2, I just wish I could enjoy it too.
Ever since the release of EA I felt that there was something off with the physics in AMS2. Many things got sorted up to this point but there are still things I would love to see get some attention. Like the wobbly suspension mentioned above and the feeling that the car pivots around an axel when you turn, very much like the Shift games but maybe a bit less extreme.
Also the FFB is not to my liking on my G27. I can get it to feel mediocre at best but that's about it and when I switch to another car I have to start fiddling with the FFB settings again. Should not have to change the FFB for every car, things like this will unfortunately keep me away from AMS2.

I really really wanted AMS2 to be my next go to sim as I ditched rf2 a couple of moths ago for reasons I won't go in to here, but at this point I will stick to ACC for my GT3 fix and AMS1 for everything else.

But with so many positive reviews I still want to congratulate Reiza on the release, I guess this one just isn't for me.
I agree with most of what you say but it's a function of the core physics engine itself in my opinion because some of these traits (not all) are present in other ISI/Rfactor/ProjectCars physics engine based games like Project Cars, F1 Ch 99-02, RF2, even the NFS Shift games, etc. I still see that there's a multiple-decades-long issue still standing in AMS2 where it's often as if there's an invisible force pulling the car's front-end into the corner. This can happen at any stage of the corner: entry, mid, exit. In real life, the car's inertia wants to always make the car go straight or towards the outside of the corner while turning but in ISI/RF/PC physics land it's like there's an invisible force that sometimes over-powers the force of inertia and makes the car keep turning into the corner sharper and sharper. It does seem improved from previous iterations of the engine so that's a good thing but it's still there.

I agree, oversteer looks very unnatural too and still quite on/off and just "gamey" in general. I see so much oversteer being saved by just returning the wheel back to centre (or a touch past) rather than actual getting the car's rear to rotate in an angle relative to the vehicle's direction of travel (ie. the car continues on it's path towards the outside of the corner while the rear swings out and points the front towards the inside should be happening). Then, the oversteer often suddenly just ends out of nowhere rather than the wheelspin and slip-angle being modulated & controlled by the driver's pedal & throttle inputs.

There also seems to be times when the vehicle starts to oversteer and the vehicle seems like it's simply not responding to any driver inputs...then, because the vehicle doesn't seem to be responding, the driver adds more input (ie. even bigger throttle-lift or even more opposite lock) and then it's like the car suddenly "wakes up" and finally starts responding to driver inputs. But, since you've now added extra inputs to compensate for the inputs not previously having any effect, the car now suddenly snap-re-grips and often this leads into a snap overcorrect (the snap-overcorrect can be saved easily if you drive these sims often and are used to this behavior but that's besides the point). Like the point above, this does seem to be slightly improved compared to previous generation games based on this engine or it's "cousins."

What you're saying about the weird, unnatural point/axis on which the rear seems to be rotating about is probably related to what I'm trying to describe.


I've been saying it for years, it doesn't matter if it's U.I, sound, physics, graphics, damage model, etc. only so much can be done if you're essentially making content for an existing engine rather than developing and evolving/advancing that engine (like iRacing does a lot, and Kunos too to a lesser extent). Until that happens, these unnatural behaviors will remain as they've remained in one form or another going back many years.



I'm also happy people are enjoying AMS2 and genuinely wish Reiza success but I just wish they spent much more time, money, resources into digging deep into the coding of the physics engine, damage engine, sound engine, and less time on all the content (many great cars and tracks).


The game engine is the woman, the content is the makeup and clothes. You can only do so much with makeup & clothes to try and hide, fix, improve, or compensate for the actual woman herself. You can even clone a woman (another game using the same engine) and put much different clothes & makeup (game content) on the other one but you'll still eventually notice they're both the same woman underneath it all.
 
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Like a lot of people, I just jumped into this game with the official release. Yesterday, after buying it, I only had half an hour to test it: the first impression wasn't good, probably because I chose some unlucky track/cars combinations. I had the impression that it looked and felt too much like PC2.

Today, I came back to it, with the idea that probably this game in its current state wasn't for me and with refunding in my mind. I spent one more hour testing it and now my opinion changed drastically. I had a blast trying some of the cars (sprint race, fiat uno, the old impala, the Ginetta G4 super cup and some of the prototypes). I tweaked the FFB a little bit and some of the settings and now I love how it feels. So I will stick with it. It looks and runs superb. This definetly has the potential of becoming one of the best sims in the near future if Reiza keeps working to tune and improve it.
 
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Yes, I do TV cameras for some of the tracks. I hope it helps to convince you the track was done from scratch. And a lot of hard work went into it. Not by me, the track team. They deserve the kudos.

Cool. No need to convince - I was just speculating and because to me it'd be great if they
could add more tracks in the future, more popular tracks similar to what PC 2 has. Since
Reiza is adding some classic tracks like Mount Panorama, Spa, Silverstone and probably
Nords, I was just being optimistc wanting more. Thanks for your input.
 

GOV47

Premium
184
311
Yes, I do TV cameras for some of the tracks. I hope it helps to convince you the track was done from scratch. And a lot of hard work went into it. Not by me, the track team. They deserve the kudos.

I hope VR TV cams are in the works. It is my biggest disappointment right now is the lackluster VR replay system.
 
Finally spent a bit more time with AMS2 release version tonight, doing some MP races and such.

I honestly don't see where all the criticism/complaining is coming from. It doesn't feel like PC2 at all IMO, it feels like improved AMS1. There are certainly things that need polishing, and the dedicated server apparently is not the best to work with at this point, but nothing major stands out to me.

I had some issues with the FFB before release, as the constant re-adjusting by Reiza has not always felt like an improvement to me, but I've started completely from scratch with the final release version (completely removed the settings folder) and out of the box, it feels spot on. The only thing that needs a bit more adjusting is the FFB gain between cars, as there are some inconsistencies still.
 
I've replayed that part multiple times and if you're talking about the left rear wheel in particular, I'm pretty sure the issue with that shot is not that the wheel is bouncing off the ground, but rather the car model is not properly aligned with the visual track surface and/or its own shadow, which at that extreme angle creates the illusion that the wheel is not touching the track.
If you look closely, you'll notice that there seems to be a gap between the wheel and the track for the whole duration of that shot, not just during the "bounce". But if you ignore that visual gap, the wheel acts as if it was in contact with the track surface throughout the shot, it doesn't seem to bounce or anything (unlike both right wheels). Same applies to the left front wheel, but we only see that one for a brief moment.
You might be right in this instance but you can't ignore the fact that the cars are bouncing excessively in AMS2.
It's like the only thing working on the suspension are the spring, like they forgot to fill the damper with oil.
 
@DEIC Such comparison is pointless, though. You are comparing two different games. There are other explanations for that, and we can't possibly know what the truth is. It might just as well be the case of PC2 tracks being less detailed/bumpy or the PC2 suspension/car not responding as it should. There might be countless other reasons. We don't even know if the arbitrary number of the world movement setting is comparable between the games.

But if you want to go with the explanation that the developers that just made an entire new complex game don't really know how to use the engine they built said game in because a camera shakes a bit more than in a different game on the same engine, then...sure, I guess. To me it kinda sounds like a Michelin-star chef not knowing how to make hard boiled eggs properly, but, I mean, it might happen I guess.

Man, you are smart, but AMS 2 does have some real problems with suspension, and that might actually be causing some of the camera annoyances people are having. Just as some other people have said, it's wobbly and it never feels like any of the cars can be made "rigid", always having some weird suspension travel and feeling soft.

Also, a test I like to make with some sims is too apply excessive steering, where the car will understeer and go almost in the direction it was traveling. With the Formula Ultimate I couldn't replicate that, causing always oversteer, wich I don't think is right and where some of the handling nuances not really describable to me, but felt from other well regard sims, don't even compare.
 
@Martin Fiala It's strange how we can all have such huge different opinions in the world of sim racing, like we're all playing different sims.
Not saying you're wrong, if that's how you perceive the game than that's how you perceive it. I just wish I did too and could join the fun.
I agree with most of what you say but it's a function of the core physics engine itself in my opinion because some of these traits (not all) are present in other ISI/Rfactor/ProjectCars physics engine based games like Project Cars, F1 Ch 99-02, RF2, even the NFS Shift games, etc. I still see that there's a multiple-decades-long issue still standing in AMS2 where it's often as if there's an invisible force pulling the car's front-end into the corner. This can happen at any stage of the corner: entry, mid, exit. In real life, the car's inertia wants to always make the car go straight or towards the outside of the corner while turning but in ISI/RF/PC physics land it's like there's an invisible force that sometimes over-powers the force of inertia and makes the car keep turning into the corner sharper and sharper. It does seem improved from previous iterations of the engine so that's a good thing but it's still there.

I agree, oversteer looks very unnatural too and still quite on/off and just "gamey" in general. I see so much oversteer being saved by just returning the wheel back to centre (or a touch past) rather than actual getting the car's rear to rotate in an angle relative to the vehicle's direction of travel (ie. the car continues on it's path towards the outside of the corner while the rear swings out and points the front towards the inside should be happening). Then, the oversteer often suddenly just ends out of nowhere rather than the wheelspin and slip-angle being modulated & controlled by the driver's pedal & throttle inputs.

There also seems to be times when the vehicle starts to oversteer and the vehicle seems like it's simply not responding to any driver inputs...then, because the vehicle doesn't seem to be responding, the driver adds more input (ie. even bigger throttle-lift or even more opposite lock) and then it's like the car suddenly "wakes up" and finally starts responding to driver inputs. But, since you've now added extra inputs to compensate for the inputs not previously having any effect, the car now suddenly snap-re-grips and often this leads into a snap overcorrect (the snap-overcorrect can be saved easily if you drive these sims often and are used to this behavior but that's besides the point). Like the point above, this does seem to be slightly improved compared to previous generation games based on this engine or it's "cousins."

What you're saying about the weird, unnatural point/axis on which the rear seems to be rotating about is probably related to what I'm trying to describe.


I've been saying it for years, it doesn't matter if it's U.I, sound, physics, graphics, damage model, etc. only so much can be done if you're essentially making content for an existing engine rather than developing and evolving/advancing that engine (like iRacing does a lot, and Kunos too to a lesser extent). Until that happens, these unnatural behaviors will remain as they've remained in one form or another going back many years.



I'm also happy people are enjoying AMS2 and genuinely wish Reiza success but I just wish they spent much more time, money, resources into digging deep into the coding of the physics engine, damage engine, sound engine, and less time on all the content (many great cars and tracks).


The game engine is the woman, the content is the makeup and clothes. You can only do so much with makeup & clothes to try and hide, fix, improve, or compensate for the actual woman herself. You can even clone a woman (another game using the same engine) and put much different clothes & makeup (game content) on the other one but you'll still eventually notice they're both the same woman underneath it all.

I am your biggest fan man! Ahah

Kind of joking, but I am with you when it comes to the flaws with the ISI engine and further modifications/iterations. It's really apparent with trail breaking.

I was enjoying Rfactor 2 until I started to notice that problem, and it really annoyed me. What made me awake to it was driving beamng at the time. That game does have some serious weight transfer and inertia dynamics for sure.

Now I am mostly happy with AC, but it also has it's flaws of course. ACC I do think it really is the closest simulation I've seen, judging from videos of gt3, even to the grip dynamics and it scared me.
 
Man, you are smart, but AMS 2 does have some real problems with suspension, and that might actually be causing some of the camera annoyances people are having. Just as some other people have said, it's wobbly and it never feels like any of the cars can be made "rigid", always having some weird suspension travel and feeling soft.
I have to take your word for it, because, again, I just don't notice anything like that. But I am also very ignorant when it comes to car handling "feel" in sims and I'm basically limited to "feels good and reasonable" or "feels weird and wrong", so once people start talking about how the physics are completely off and ruined because the tyre is flexing 5 mm less than it should, I just shrug and walk away, because I have little to add to their conversation.

AMS2, to me, sits completely in the "feels good and reasonable" category at a level close to where AMS1 is, sometimes even higher because it feels more "natural" than AMS1 (where "natural" means "what I would expect a car like that being driven like that feels and handles like"). I'm not noticing any real problems with suspension being wobbly as far as I can tell.
 
I have to take your word for it, because, again, I just don't notice anything like that. But I am also very ignorant when it comes to car handling "feel" in sims and I'm basically limited to "feels good and reasonable" or "feels weird and wrong", so once people start talking about how the physics are completely off and ruined because the tyre is flexing 5 mm less than it should, I just shrug and walk away, because I have little to add to their conversation.

AMS2, to me, sits completely in the "feels good and reasonable" category at a level close to where AMS1 is, sometimes even higher because it feels more "natural" than AMS1 (where "natural" means "what I would expect a car like that being driven like that feels and handles like"). I'm not noticing any real problems with suspension being wobbly as far as I can tell.

Yes, I understand what you mean and I do find myself being certainly excessively exigent with how much accuracy on the physics and FFB I expect. But, even in the simulations I do prefer I find myself doing that, I am guilty of jumping around almost all of them and find the one that seems the least annoying . I think AMS2 really annoyed my concept of what I expect from a SIM and don't understand why some of the suspension problems can't be resolved, as to me it's really apparent no top sim does that kind of behavior.

I do find myself attracted to the game and wanted it to be great and maybe they can fix the problems. I had to refund in EA and I tested 1.0 by "other" means, because I really wanted to see how it felt now. I own a good collection of sims on Steam, like AMS. AMS is great, but it's plagued by another issue I have with ISI engine.
 
have to say that rfactor 2 physics and ai are definitely best out there and the graphics are good. maybe the only game where you can race with ai and not just hotlapping or multiplayer.ams2 f1 are ok to drive but another cars have wierd understeer effect like pc2.
 

Fairbanks_ABGF

Is that gasoline I smell?
99
38
Germany
I have been driving more cars in AMS2 and overall been spending a little more time on it, and I (kind of) agree. I don't know if i should call it "PCars 2 understeer effect" because I never played any Pcars title, but especially the Formula Classic cars exhibit behaviour that I would probably characterize as such. Especially in slow corners, 2nd gear speed, when you turn in, you have to feather the throttle to keep the car from going straight, but just a tiny bit more throttle will almost spin the car around, even though there is no turbo pressure and no power. And then you get off the throttle completely, and the car just plows straight on. Playing with the throttle in corners feels like driving a car with a spool diff. Coasting at slow speed will just push you to the outside. And I don't know what's the problem. The front feels weightless in these situations (even when braking for a turn-in), and the rear feels like it's forcing you to keep both rear wheels at the same speed.

HOWEVER: This doesn't feel as bad when in the V12, or V10, or in the little F3 cars, or at least to a much lesser extent. Also, It feels as if this issue is not as present in the non-open wheelers.

Overall I'm enjoying the game very much, but that specific problem and the fact that there is no clutch/choke simulation in some cars is driving me insane :D. But I've never sat down in an actual 80s F1 car, so I will not judge whether that is right or wrong, it just feels different to any other simulated similar car from other titles.
 
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