They are experiencing a lot of mechanical problems. I wonder if the engines aren't starting to get tired?
2012 IndyCar Series
- Thread starter Juen-Jen Wang
- Start date
don't know but there are more mechanical problems then last year for sure
Amazing win by Wilson. Graham just pushed it too far.
Power does whatever it takes to guarantee that he'll never win the championship. He was blocking the entire race long, he only got penalized for the one that caused the damage. It was a hell of a race- but I was rooting for Rahal TBH. I was in St. Pete in 08 and want him to develop into a great racer. Two things he can take from this race: 1) he got second 2) He knows now EXACTLY where the edge is with these cars LOL
haha true, I hope Castroneves, Dixon or Briscoe will win the champoinship
Power makes to much mistakes and Franchitti has been to long the champion
Power makes to much mistakes and Franchitti has been to long the champion
Awesome oval track. Might not produce the best racing ever but I can appreciate the track as a driver perspective. Those who've raced on it will know what I'm talking about
Updated the schedule with China officially cancelled. Road America will likely be the replacement
Dario BLEW ON THE FORMATION LAP! HOLY CRAP! Anyways I will post the youtube link to the race here when it gets uploaded. But anyone who's watching it now can chat here
I am Love the mile
Love the mile
If only:
"The uploader has not made this video available in your country."
Unless I resort to a VPN or proxy, I am forced to content myself with the highlights videos
What do others think? I've been following Rubens Barrichello's move to Indy, and I think he's doing ok so far, I appreciate that ovals is vastly different, and he's got to learn all the circuits.
But, I can't help remembering when Nigel Mansell moved over to Indy in 1993. If anyone dobted the man's ability as a racing driver, he blew them away by winning the series in his 'rookie' year. Yes, I know the Newman Haas car was superior, but even so, in my opinion the drivers were of a higher standard, and he took to the ovals without so much as a blink. In fact, he fractured his spine at Phoenix, and STILL came back to win the series.
This is not meant as a dig at Rubens, but I watch every week and hope that we'll see him up there fighting for a podium, and I'm beginning to wonder when/if it will happen.
His 'transfer' across the water has renewed my interest in Indycar, but I really want to see him doing better, and I don't think the current field is as good as it was.
But, I can't help remembering when Nigel Mansell moved over to Indy in 1993. If anyone dobted the man's ability as a racing driver, he blew them away by winning the series in his 'rookie' year. Yes, I know the Newman Haas car was superior, but even so, in my opinion the drivers were of a higher standard, and he took to the ovals without so much as a blink. In fact, he fractured his spine at Phoenix, and STILL came back to win the series.
This is not meant as a dig at Rubens, but I watch every week and hope that we'll see him up there fighting for a podium, and I'm beginning to wonder when/if it will happen.
His 'transfer' across the water has renewed my interest in Indycar, but I really want to see him doing better, and I don't think the current field is as good as it was.
My guess is that it is many reasons for the difference.
The teams are quite different when it comes to speed and skill.
The cars are more different now, than what they were in the 90's (CART vs F1 )
Even though the drivers in CART had bigger names, it wasn't that high level. Emerson Fittipaldi was fast, but he was 47 years old. Tracy was in his first full season. Bobby Rahal was 40. Raul Boesel never was the fastest, Mario Andretti was 53 years old. That was the top 6 that year Mansell won. Big names, but most of them should be a bit over the top at that age.
In 94 Mansell got a 8th in the championship, so he never thrashed them I think.
The teams are quite different when it comes to speed and skill.
The cars are more different now, than what they were in the 90's (CART vs F1 )
Even though the drivers in CART had bigger names, it wasn't that high level. Emerson Fittipaldi was fast, but he was 47 years old. Tracy was in his first full season. Bobby Rahal was 40. Raul Boesel never was the fastest, Mario Andretti was 53 years old. That was the top 6 that year Mansell won. Big names, but most of them should be a bit over the top at that age.
In 94 Mansell got a 8th in the championship, so he never thrashed them I think.
I think they have made changes the front office that will help the series in the end. Its is sad tho that the original idea of having an inexpensive series went by by but to see the RACING again makes up for it.
They are getting their legs back but still have a long way to go. To me F1 has given by far the best racing this year with a few of the races being some of the best I've seen in a long long time.
But hell racing is racing as long as it's close. Soon enough it will be cold again and we will get to see if Cletus got that new Brigs going for the lawn mower races in the winter
They are getting their legs back but still have a long way to go. To me F1 has given by far the best racing this year with a few of the races being some of the best I've seen in a long long time.
But hell racing is racing as long as it's close. Soon enough it will be cold again and we will get to see if Cletus got that new Brigs going for the lawn mower races in the winter
As the self proclaimed resident expert on IndyCar in Race Department I'd just like to say it's nice to see someone crawl under my rock this time around
I think Ole is right on this, I actually don't think early CART was as talented as people think it was back in the day. Compare to Senna, Schumacher, Piquet, Mansell, Rosberg, Bellof. Even some of the F1 backmarkers were actually very talented people like Roberto Moreno (I don't care what anyone says if you qualify an Andrea Moda in the field and not by default then you are WC material...) You compare that lineup to the legends of CART in the early 90s and it's just Unser Jr, Tracy, Robbie Gordon, Michael and John Andretti (to be frank I've always thought John was more talented than Michael but that's just my own opinion) and the old guys with Mario, Emerson, and Bobby Rahal.
So you can see what I mean when I think that the "talented CART drivers of the early 90s" was actually a bit of an illusion. I've always maintained that the AOW (American Open Wheel) scene was the strongest in the late 90s and very early ChampCar days.
Lets look at some of the top guys of late 90s CART. Greg Moore, Scott Pruett, Jacques Villeneuve, Juan Pablo Montoya, Dario Franchitti... and when ChampCar came around there was Simon Pagenaud and Timo Glock and I actually think Sebastian Bourdais was talented he just flopped out of F1 for whatever reason.
I honestly believe that the current IndyCar field has been the strongest since the late 90s. Unfortunately, and I hate to say it because I do like Rubens, but I don't think Rubens has really been impressive at all. Sure he's not in a Ganassi or Penske, but he's in a team that's definitely second tier and on par with fights for podiums as Tony Kanaan has proven. Excluding the oval races, on every single road course race he's been eliminated from the Top 12 in qualifying (and if you don't know, that's the equivalent of being stuck in Q1 for F1).
If an IndyCar driver went over to F1 in... let's say Lotus-Renault and he's been eliminated from Q1 every race you'd say the IndyCar driver is doing horrible. And the technical gaps between the teams in Indy aren't even as big as the ones in F1. KV is below Ganassi and Penske sure but honestly Rubens is in a Chevy engine which is better than its competitors (as Will Power has proven at Long Beach).
Honestly, I personally believe that asking Rubens to do more than what he's doing now would be asking a bit much. But, the fact of the matter is, if an IndyCar driver went over to F1 and hasn't gotten up to speed at this point or fighting for podiums in a car that's possible to get podiums he'd be thrashed to bits. Yet, Rubens is getting the soft treatment with the "he just need to get used to the cars and tracks." Between his critics and his supporters, the truth of the matter is inbetween. I think the jump between F1 and Indy is so big at this point that you shouldn't expect to fight for podiums, let alone wins in your rookie season but I also think the current talent in the grid this year is seriously underestimated. It's not F1 level of talent sure, I can admit that. But it's definitely a grid that's more worthy of the "American continent's premiere open wheel series" that IndyCar is supposed to be known as.
I'll be the first to admit that Indy hasn't had a talented grid for the past 5-6 years with the exception of maybe a handful of drivers. This year, everyone deserves to be there maybe barring Katharine Legge, Charlie Kimball, and James Jakes.
BTW. I'm glad you've decided to start watching Indy, it's good to see some renewed interest in the new direction of the series. I hope you've been enjoying the races so far
I'd just like to say it's nice to see someone crawl under my rock this time around I think Ole is right on this, I actually don't think early CART was as talented as people think it was back in the day. Compare to Senna, Schumacher, Piquet, Mansell, Rosberg, Bellof. Even some of the F1 backmarkers were actually very talented people like Roberto Moreno (I don't care what anyone says if you qualify an Andrea Moda in the field and not by default then you are WC material...) You compare that lineup to the legends of CART in the early 90s and it's just Unser Jr, Tracy, Robbie Gordon, Michael and John Andretti (to be frank I've always thought John was more talented than Michael but that's just my own opinion) and the old guys with Mario, Emerson, and Bobby Rahal.
So you can see what I mean when I think that the "talented CART drivers of the early 90s" was actually a bit of an illusion. I've always maintained that the AOW (American Open Wheel) scene was the strongest in the late 90s and very early ChampCar days.
Lets look at some of the top guys of late 90s CART. Greg Moore, Scott Pruett, Jacques Villeneuve, Juan Pablo Montoya, Dario Franchitti... and when ChampCar came around there was Simon Pagenaud and Timo Glock and I actually think Sebastian Bourdais was talented he just flopped out of F1 for whatever reason.
I honestly believe that the current IndyCar field has been the strongest since the late 90s. Unfortunately, and I hate to say it because I do like Rubens, but I don't think Rubens has really been impressive at all. Sure he's not in a Ganassi or Penske, but he's in a team that's definitely second tier and on par with fights for podiums as Tony Kanaan has proven. Excluding the oval races, on every single road course race he's been eliminated from the Top 12 in qualifying (and if you don't know, that's the equivalent of being stuck in Q1 for F1).
If an IndyCar driver went over to F1 in... let's say Lotus-Renault and he's been eliminated from Q1 every race you'd say the IndyCar driver is doing horrible. And the technical gaps between the teams in Indy aren't even as big as the ones in F1. KV is below Ganassi and Penske sure but honestly Rubens is in a Chevy engine which is better than its competitors (as Will Power has proven at Long Beach).
Honestly, I personally believe that asking Rubens to do more than what he's doing now would be asking a bit much. But, the fact of the matter is, if an IndyCar driver went over to F1 and hasn't gotten up to speed at this point or fighting for podiums in a car that's possible to get podiums he'd be thrashed to bits. Yet, Rubens is getting the soft treatment with the "he just need to get used to the cars and tracks." Between his critics and his supporters, the truth of the matter is inbetween. I think the jump between F1 and Indy is so big at this point that you shouldn't expect to fight for podiums, let alone wins in your rookie season but I also think the current talent in the grid this year is seriously underestimated. It's not F1 level of talent sure, I can admit that. But it's definitely a grid that's more worthy of the "American continent's premiere open wheel series" that IndyCar is supposed to be known as.
I'll be the first to admit that Indy hasn't had a talented grid for the past 5-6 years with the exception of maybe a handful of drivers. This year, everyone deserves to be there maybe barring Katharine Legge, Charlie Kimball, and James Jakes.
BTW. I'm glad you've decided to start watching Indy, it's good to see some renewed interest in the new direction of the series. I hope you've been enjoying the races so far
I agree with a lot of what you say,but apart from remembering Mansell's success, I also remember Michal Andretti making the move in the opposite direction and really struggling. However, I'm the first to admit the Mclaren wasn't the best at the time. I agree Rubens has been disappointing on the road course, his consistency is and always has been impressive, but maybe that takes the killer instinct out of him a bit, as he should be matching Kanaan by now. Still, it's good to be watching it again, I broke off during the champcar/Indy split when the quality seemed to drop on both sides, but as you rightly say, it really seems to be on the up again. And I like the way they are trying to enhance it, with the qualifying heats, and the push to pass, and the close monitoring of the engines. So hopefully we will continue to see it improve now. Hope you all enjoy Toronto, I have to watch practice/qualy via timing screens on internet, no televised sessions in UK, but the races are shown live again so that's good
You are speculating. If, if, if...
There is a matter of adaptation between F1 cars and Indy Cars. If, next year, Rubens still hasn't managed to produce better results, then by all means critics may have their day. If...
Right now, between adaptation (to a heavier car, a different level of tech, different tracks, different team, different way of doing things) and car issues, people should wait and see what he has in store.
Me too. If we look at his F1 career: 11 wins and 65 podiums. Never a champion, ok, but 2 second places, 2 third places. Not bad, considering part of his career was in the shadow of Michael Schumacher.
Regarding Indy...
I have been following Rubens on twitter for some time. He held a sort of a conference with his fans, just before his 1st Indy race. He is a good professional, no doubt, calm, collected, he seemed relaxed but conscious of the big differences between Indy cars and F1 cars. Not worried, for sure, but aware of them. 18 years of nimble, powerful and light cars,and of a sudden a transition to heavier, understeery (his words) cars.
Cut him some slack, I say. He loves the sport and was willing to change, so give him time.
Regarding Indy...
I have been following Rubens on twitter for some time. He held a sort of a conference with his fans, just before his 1st Indy race. He is a good professional, no doubt, calm, collected, he seemed relaxed but conscious of the big differences between Indy cars and F1 cars. Not worried, for sure, but aware of them. 18 years of nimble, powerful and light cars,and of a sudden a transition to heavier, understeery (his words) cars.
Cut him some slack, I say. He loves the sport and was willing to change, so give him time.
Bourdais qualified 4th at Toronto in a Dragon (which is barely on budget) and Rubens qualified 20th in a KV. Sure, he qualified just slightly behind Kanaan and Viso qualified last. But shouldn't 19 years of F1 experience mean a little more than 20th on the indycar grid in a Chevy engine?
Honestly, I sound harsher than I actually mean. I think Rubens is doing a decent job but just slightly disappointing.
Remember, F1 is considered the top of the world by having such a wide variety of teams and how they build and engineer their cars. But IndyCar has always had the argument that they had the most diverse group of tarmac tracks. (ovals, street courses, airport courses, and permanent facilities with drastic elevation changes)
Rubens himself said the biggest issue is learning the tracks, he will do better if he decides to stick around but anyone who thinks he will get a podium or win is probably underestimating the field as well as the challenges of these tracks. Argue all you want about how the cars in Indy are inferior to F1 or whatever, but the tracks really do them in
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