NASCAR 21: Ignition Releases in 10 Days to High Expectations from Fans

Bram Hengeveld said:

I assume you pay a monthly fee for Nexflix, your ISP, your energy provider, landlord or any other real life service? What they all do is offering you a product each month and next to that you pay for the service that comes with it.

You can debate the amount of the monthly iracing fee of course but you can't expect a company to work for free because you refuse to pay for their online infrastructure service out of principle. Sorry but that makes absolutely no sense at all.

By now it should be clear to everybody that you are not paying only for the cars and tracks, you are paying for the amazing online platfrom they have built for their sim and after building our own simracing.gp multi-game platform I am completely aware of the costs that come with it.

Servers don't run for free, developers don't work for free, communities don't run for free, download bandwith like the 230 Terabyte we put out here on RD every month isn't for free.

The argument that I often hear as well: yeah, but we dont have to pay for the online races in other games either so why should i pay for iracing. Is that true now? Who pays for those 1000s of servers in online lobbies? Communities do! Real people, with real costs. Add all those costs per month to a grand total and you will be shocked what a massive amount of money some people in this community burn to facilitate the beloved online racing hobby for others every day of the year.

When it comes to supporting online platforms and communities: be generous, it really helps.

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Bram,

There must be some kind of 'lost in translation' issue going on with your reply, because i think you haven't really understood what i was really trying to say...(it happens) - Or maybe i wasn't clear enough...

Look, iRacing is the pinnacle of online multiplayer racing absolutely no doubt, i understand that; and those that wish to use the online part of it are quite welcome and in some regards, yes, pay a monthly/yearly fee to support the system...i do agree to a certain extent.
I still believe that iRacing's pricing requires updating to make it more accessible to those with limited budgets. Again, i have no problem financially whatsoever...but again that's not my point.

The point i was meaning to say was, they should have a system that allows users to have the option of paying for whatever service they require:
1. If one wishes to play online, then fine, have a payment system.
2. For those that wish to play 'offline', then have a separate system with no pay-to-play subscription (as with general games/sims in the market)...or have a very low subscription charge.

In fact, iRacing does (or did) have an 'offline' version; for trade shows etc - Why not allow the consumers to use this option?

Of course, pay for the cars/tracks you wish to use offline sure, but having to pay monthly/yearly or whatever just to even use those purchases is ridiculous; You purchase all those cars/tracks, but as soon as your 'subscription' ends...that's it!...you basically have nothing. and it's this that disgusts me to be quite honest.

Additionally, i'm beginning to wonder that because of the status iRacing has, specifically around the Nascar/Stock car series, maybe that is the reason general Nascar titles have always been lacking in both quality and attention...maybe it's all intended to NOT compete with iRacing?

So, my 'just for the pleasure' statement is true for certain aspects...

One want's to play online...pay for 'the pleasure'...
If one doesn't want to play online (offline singleplayer only), then not be charged.

P.S. Just for the record, items such as ISP, energy usage and rent/mortgage are unfortunately somehwhat of a necessity.

I have a house (but no mortgage/rent) i own it; energy is required for heating/cooking/cleaning etc, and the ISP (well not entirely required but essential in these times unfortunately)...a 'game' subscription is not a priority (especially singleplayer offline that is).

Austin Ogonoski said:

lmao this is getting so weird, I absolutely love it.

Motorsport Games is basically the game dev wing of a giant "Motorsport"-branded network.

Motorsportnetwork | MotorsportNetwork.com

www.motorsportnetwork.com

This February they went as far as creating their own sim news blog that is basically a rip-off of RaceDepartment - Traxion.gg. Within a week of the site going live they were on the side of a NASCAR Cup car for the February 28th Homestead race. Very obvious this is not an indie operation and it's listed on the above site as part of the "Motorsport" wing.

So you have a publicly traded company creating it's own news outlet out of thin air to cover both it's own products, and it's competitors. Is the goal to get MarketWatch to cite their own reviews of their own games to lure in more investors and prove that the company is successful?

Are they even allowed to do this? What the **** is happening here?

I have been on the receiving end of legal threats for running my own personal blog in my spare time, simply because of the optics of simultaneously being under contract with a developer.

This is like 100x more egregious.

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Thanks Austin for bringing this to my attention, and to say the least, it's an eye opener for sure.

I've just viewed your video on YouTube:
Dear Sim Racing Channels: It's Okay to Criticize a Game
I have to say, you are 100% correct in everything you say and is something i've found interesting too in regards to these content creators.
If i were to add anything to this, i believe 'off camera' they are probably slating this game quite openly, but it's on camera that counts when potential customers of the game are watching...:/

The game is simply not 'fit for purpose' and is far from acceptable as a release title, but yet many comments whether on YT or Twitter or anywhere, there's a small enclave of people that astoundingly believe this game great and they openly state their pre-order or soon to be purchase of this mess.

One starts to think and rightly or wrongly assume things that may or may not be true; one of my thoughts is maybe the developers and content creators whom received these 'free' pre-release versions agreed to certain things they say or can't say...
After all, they have received the game 'free of charge' so to speak...but that doesn't mean it wouldn't come with 'conditions'.

We all could debate what happens from now on in with Motorsport Games and this title but, at least from my perspective, you have to just sometimes look at what is presented...and in this case is a game clearly unfit for purpose and certainly far from ready to be released to consumers...FACT!.

Well yeah, obviously these are all paid promotions. People want to keep their jobs of "content creator" and the best way to do that is to only say nice things about big companies.

It's made Jalopnik now.


Motorsport Games responded to the article and they are fully committed to releasing the game; opting to patch it later.

Meanwhile crap like this is happening to everyone.

Austin Ogonoski said:

Some serious cope here.

This is an officially licensed racing game in which the series' basic rules haven't been implemented. Stage racing does not exist in NASCAR 21 Ignition. This would be like if Madden shipped an NFL football game without four quarters, or Codemasters shipped an F1 game without DRS.

This omission alone warrants serious questions about the competence of this company.

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I think it's important to put everything a bit into perspective and not go on a killing spree as you are doing it. You are simply overreacting, as if it was your agenda to trash this game for what ever reason. And just to pick up your point: we have an officialy lisenced F1 game, where basic rules like SC weren't part of the game right from the beginning and where simple things like pitstops are still on a level that is beyond questionable with glitches and bugs happening on a regular base. This shouldn't be the case with an officialy lisenced game in it's 10th iteration, but it still does. To put it more into perspective: this happens to an experienced development team that is working with the same engine since a couple of years now, and they still produce buggy software. In comparison you have a pretty new company that is working with new tech since how long? Two years? What in gods name did you expect while they are trying to hit a deadline? The Project Cars games, that were produced by your lovely SMS had similar issues btw, with cars hitting pitwalls in autopitlane mode. Should I mention the pit procedures that got cut out for the 3rd game or the stutter at the start of the race in PC2 that was a common issue? Are you going to call Codemasters or SMS a bunch of incompetent idiots with a questionable CV aswell?

And for that reason I think that the footage that I've watched doesn't look that much worse than any of the F1 games. Give it a couple of patches and it' ll get a normal racing game for people who like to relax with their gamepad on a couch infront of their TV.

tr1v1um said:

And for that reason I think that the footage that I've watched doesn't look that much worse than any of the F1 games.

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Even though you don't really think half of what you say, I thought it would be interesting to note that as much as I strongly dislike stage racing, overtime, playoffs and all other lame hockey influences in NASCAR, not having them in the game as a core feature or structure of the actual activity of racing in this racing game is as bad as it gets in terms of game design. It's like an RX game without a joker lap, a basketball game without 3-point shots or a football game without punting.

I hope they fix everything else and realize too late that the engine doesn't allow stages, I'd buy that for more than a dollar.

tr1v1um said:

And for that reason I think that the footage that I've watched doesn't look that much worse than any of the F1 games. Give it a couple of patches and it' ll get a normal racing game for people who like to relax with their gamepad on a couch infront of their TV.

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Completely and utterly delusional. If I didn't know better I'd think you were an astroturfer because there's no way you could compare any of Codies output to this abomination.

No stage racing in the game. Like shipping Madden without quarters.
No custom lobbies. A feature that's standard in racing games, completely absent.
No car setups. None.
No fuel gauge.
No tire wear readout.
No rear view mirror.
No track map.
Cut track penalties for driving on the racing line.
Can't use custom cars in career mode - a feature available on NASCAR console games from 20 years ago!
Caution flags lead to glitched-out restarts 100% of the time.
AI don't even bother to find their way around wrecks but drive right into them at full speed.
Frequent crashing/freezing.

Codies has never released a game like this. This is not "a few patches from being fine" nor is anyone on a killing spree. This very well might have been the worst racing game released in recent memory, and even legitimate auto mags are starting to cover it.

This is really what you want from an IndyCar game, a WEC game, a BTCC game? Because those are on the horizon, made from this same team. How are you supposed to run an endurance race without a fuel gauge?

What happens if this game gets pulled from online stores? What happens if the company goes under because of this? Will you still be sitting here trying to convince people it actually wasn't all that bad, and only needed "some patches?" Because we are a lot closer to that reality than one would think. NASCAR from what I understand is keeping a close eye on things.

You guys haven't understood that you aren't the target audience for this game. It reads like a boykott of a few iRacing diehards who didn't get their toy.

And your so called list that you deem as basic requirements for a racing game are sign of this. I got into racing games with Racedriver Grid back in the day wich had no car setups, fuel gauge, tire readouts, no mirrors - it had a trackmap, atleast sort of, I will give it that and it had online lobbies (that I never used). It also gave people the chance to have "endurance races" and people didn't care for fuel usage or their tires. If you consider where Stephen Hood is coming from in terms of game direction it's pretty clear where the train is going.

It's pretty obvious that they had a deadline to meet that they didn't meat. But that's pretty common nowadays and nothing to get bent over. There are clear teething issues and features that they needed to take out for release due to them not being ready. But that can easily solved with a few patches. Anyway, I will leave you alone with your sorrows and frustrations as I don't care enough about Nascar Ignition and the rest of the games. It's just funny that you pull out a list of things that you don't like about Nascar Ignition whenever I confront you with the harsh reality of other games. This is a video from F1 2021, four days old. Looks like a flawless experience:

I don’t mind the iRacing monthly fee, they have to maintain their servers fund continuous development.

HOWEVER what I really deplore, as in absolute hate, is that if you stop your service you have NOTHING.

It does not matter if you never have bought an item or bought ALL TRACKS and ALL CARS, or anywhere in between, you have absolutely NOTHING. I personally do not like a business practice that only revolves around licenses and leaves you empty handed if you don’t pay your monthly fee.

I bought all tracks up to the end of 2020 and a shitload of cars (yes, I am dumb and suffer from the “collector” bug - teaches me from being stupid), but iRacing did me a favor when they decided to stop my ongoing payment method for whatever reason they had (just resubmit was their comment), well it is now a year later and I haven’t resubmitted. Sure they have their last laugh, if you calculate the money I put into that game, but as a moment to sober up it was effective. I don’t like the don’t pay don’t play with your license only toys business model.

Ruy Horta said:

I don’t mind the iRacing monthly fee, they have to maintain their servers fund continuous development.

HOWEVER what I really deplore, as in absolute hate, is that if you stop your service you have NOTHING.

It does not matter if you never have bought an item or bought ALL TRACKS and ALL CARS, or anywhere in between, you have absolutely NOTHING. I personally do not like a business practice that only revolves around licenses and leaves you empty handed if you don’t pay your monthly fee.

I bought all tracks up to the end of 2020 and a shitload of cars (yes, I am dumb and suffer from the “collector” bug - teaches me from being stupid), but iRacing did me a favor when they decided to stop my ongoing payment method for whatever reason they had (just resubmit was their comment), well it is now a year later and I haven’t resubmitted. Sure they have their last laugh, if you calculate the money I put into that game, but as a moment to sober up it was effective. I don’t like the don’t pay don’t play with your license only toys business model.

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Actually, you still have everything - you just don't have access to it until you start paying your membership fee again. Come back when you can afford the fee and start right up where you left off.

Wayne Hutchison said:

Actually, you still have everything - you just don't have access to it until you start paying your membership fee again. Come back when you can afford the fee and start right up where you left off.

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Who says I can’t afford the fee?
I have all the tracks up to December 2020, a lot of cars plus standard 40 item discount, don’t BS me about not being able to ”afford“ a game.

It is not about the money, it is because I don’t like what they do.
I understand putting the racing behind the license, but not access your content, not even the content page.
IMO training should be possible even if you don’t have a running subscription.

Bottomline, it is perfectly clear why they have this in place, the more content you own, the less likely you are to stop paying your monthly fee.

I don’t like that kind of consumer blackmail.
It is the principle, not the money.

tr1v1um said:

You guys haven't understood that you aren't the target audience for this game. It reads like a boykott of a few iRacing diehards who didn't get their toy.

And your so called list that you deem as basic requirements for a racing game are sign of this. I got into racing games with Racedriver Grid back in the day wich had no car setups, fuel gauge, tire readouts, no mirrors - it had a trackmap, atleast sort of, I will give it that and it had online lobbies (that I never used). It also gave people the chance to have "endurance races" and people didn't care for fuel usage or their tires. If you consider where Stephen Hood is coming from in terms of game direction it's pretty clear where the train is going.

It's pretty obvious that they had a deadline to meet that they didn't meat. But that's pretty common nowadays and nothing to get bent over. There are clear teething issues and features that they needed to take out for release due to them not being ready. But that can easily solved with a few patches. Anyway, I will leave you alone with your sorrows and frustrations as I don't care enough about Nascar Ignition and the rest of the games. It's just funny that you pull out a list of things that you don't like about Nascar Ignition whenever I confront you with the harsh reality of other games. This is a video from F1 2021, four days old. Looks like a flawless experience:

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There are bugs in every game (at launch and persisting over time) and examples like Project CARS or Codemasters have certainly not been immune to this – you're right about that. But IMO, not this many bugs in this many situations this consistently appearing in routine gameplay.

And this isn't just an issue of butthurt simboys – for (at a minimum) two reasons:

1. Motorsport Games has seemingly positioned itself within the sim racing community. Perhaps, like you say, Motorsport has no intention to make a sim-oriented game, and just wants to make NASCAR GRID 2021 or whatever. But then they shouldn't let people believe otherwise and do what SMS did with Project CARS 3, allowing hopeful sim-oriented gamers to believe their game will be simulation-y – for example by billing PC3 as "all the simulation you could want" (which it clearly isn't).

2. Check out the comments sections of casual gamer-oriented NASCAR YouTubers, who recently have presumably been playing the NASCAR Heat series. Many people there are verrry concerned about the number of serious game-breaking bugs, lack of current-day NASCAR features like stage racing, and other weird dev choices (like seemingly mandatory steering assist). Those comments sections read a little differently than places like RaceDepartment, true, but many viewers are still very worried!

Regardless, this should not be business as usual, and there isn't no cause for concern IMO. Frankly, if I'm somehow entirely wrong and other developers are just as guilty of bugginess and missing features on this scale (on launch day or afterwards), then I'll gladly criticize the **** out of those developers too, because consumers deserve better than this! And it would only further justify my personal choice to mostly play non-current sim-oriented games (NR2003, GTR2, AMS1, RBR...) that I can get to actually work, mod if needed or desired, and just have fun – even with the limitations of those games, given their age.

Evidently your opinion and iRacing's are different. You play the game by their rules or you don't play. When you have the best consumer racing simulation on the market you get to write the rules.

Ruy Horta said:

Who says I can’t afford the fee?
I have all the tracks up to December 2020, a lot of cars plus standard 40 item discount, don’t BS me about not being able to ”afford“ a game.

It is not about the money, it is because I don’t like what they do.
I understand putting the racing behind the license, but not access your content, not even the content page.
IMO training should be possible even if you don’t have a running subscription.

Bottomline, it is perfectly clear why they have this in place, the more content you own, the less likely you are to stop paying your monthly fee.

I don’t like that kind of consumer blackmail.
It is the principle, not the money.

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Wayne Hutchison said:

Evidently your opinion and iRacing's are different. You play the game by their rules or you don't play. When you have the best consumer racing simulation on the market you get to write the rules.

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I’ll leave it at that, before I tickle the moderators as I thank you for your words of wisdom.

Wayne Hutchison said:

Evidently your opinion and iRacing's are different. You play the game by their rules or you don't play. When you have the best consumer racing simulation on the market you get to write the rules.

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Interesting, rF2 was the best one earlier, now I guess it's iRacing.

By the way, does iR have an actually working tire thermal model yet?

Kyuubeey said:

Interesting, rF2 was the best one earlier, now I guess it's iRacing.

By the way, does iR have an actually working tire thermal model yet?

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The only sim where cars must be driven with a rearward brake bias already says it all about their physics and tire model

Austin Ogonoski said:

No track map.

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I'mma go out there and say track maps are for first person shooters and have no place in a racing game.
Being sim-picky, that doesn't exist in real life for the most part and has no place on my screen.
ESPECIALLY in a game which is mostly oval racing (couldn't remember where "turn" 3 is?. Functional spotters are crucial, however.
Sadly, I was looking forward to this new title and a possible new big player in the sim market, but I think this going to crash and burn hard. And take down the company and all the licenses and possibly S397 in the process.
Hope I'm wrong and it rules, I guess?

I tried it today ... It's even worse than I thought. The only thing that's okay is the physics, as it seems to have been taken directly from Stock Cars 2020 for rfactor2. Everything else is absolutely unplayable. And crashes every three minutes.

Is it me or are some tracks at least laser scanned?

BorisK said:

I tried it today ... It's even worse than I thought. The only thing that's okay is the physics, as it seems to have been taken directly from Stock Cars 2020 for rfactor2. Everything else is absolutely unplayable. And crashes every three minutes.

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You tried what? It hasn't been released yet. Did you download some pirated version?