How Popular Are Our Favourite PC Racing Sims?

GTxForza · Nov 24, 2021

From what I can tell how Forza Horizon 5 is being the most popular of all? because it's an open-world driving game that can be enjoyed by any sort of car lover.

RCHeliguy · Nov 24, 2021

stenovitz said:
When exactly did that occur? Rebooted my own iRacing subscription September 2020 (after nearly 10 years hibernation now with a new account starting from rookie scratch, but cancelled extension of my yearly subscription after not being so active on iR since late summer 2021, though having great races in higher classes) - to my memory the Miata I drove by that time was indeed with H-shifter support of which I always prefer, to me it was still easier with a natural feeling compared to the paddle drive.

I don't quite understand this change from iRacing? Is it due to some sort of upgrade of the real world SCAA Spec Miata, now driving with paddles (I don't know)?

I'm not sure exactly when it happened, but it was with a recent replacement for the Miata which is a provided car. Your existing cars will still be available, but not to race with unless you do it in a league or AI.

THK84 · Nov 24, 2021

AC - Still great, mod god game
ACC - Awesome, game around most popular (sim) racing class
AMS2 - Rough start, getting better all the time, still has the PC2 'controversy' attached to it
BeamNG - YT Memelord game, fun sandbox
F1 2021 - Commercially great
ETS2 - Everybody needs to chill sometimes
FH5 - New, great casual game, commercial heavyweight
NASCAR21 - Money grab, dumbster fire
RRE - Still great
rFactor2 - Great Sim, UI hell, content store shitshow
iRacing - For the dedicated and the rich

Speednut357 · Nov 24, 2021

So I thought it would be interesting to look up my favourite sims. Peak concurrent player counts for yesterday.

Race 07 = 16
Gtr2 = 2
Automobilista 1 = 127

Astounds me that people still play Race 07. Thought I was the only one.

Bram Hengeveld · Nov 24, 2021

Speednut357 said:
Thought I was the only one.

Nope, guilty here myself

Kyuubeey · Nov 24, 2021

I think there's a lot of old heads who are still playing their copies from a retail version that perhaps might not even show up on Steam.

Sabine · Nov 24, 2021

Durge Driven said:
I would say the constant negative comments by people that simply never liked it
To me it seemed like it stuck in their craws, they could never let it go
Why is the million $ question
Why not just like all sims for what they are, for others, not yourself
Always made me wonder do any other genre of game have this love / hate going on

The rF 2 numbers are worse than expected, but i am not very surprised.
People run out of patience pretty quickly. Especially when something starts a alpha level and develops at snail pace compared to what they are used to. Maybe plus the differences when it comes to modding.

RCHeliguy · Nov 24, 2021

In terms of why we sim race:

How much do you care about being able to drive a specific race car vs the racing experience itself no matter what the car is ?

Do you prefer to race in races with identical fixed cars or mixed car manufacturer, full setup races ?

Do you care more about feeling like speed racer being able to win a race even if that means lowering the ability of the other AI drivers , or care more about learning race craft and battling it out with other drivers even if you end up duking it out mid pack.

Just curious how different the priorities are for people are.

Me first: I personally care more about the racing experience. As long as I like driving the car, I don't much care what it is. I like fixed car races because I like an even playing field. I care more about learning race craft than being on the podium.

aphidgod · Nov 24, 2021

Love the dire warnings of toxic deluge incoming at the start of the thread, followed by a very reasonable conversation plus two notable fools.

Given the niche nature of these titles I think the numbers are good, especially for Kunos' titles. It's cool to see statistics (from OP as well as later in the comments) bearing out the intuition that AC in particular is still picking up momentum all these years on.

I think one explanation for ETS vs the car sims might be that it's sort of its own niche with no real competing titles. If you add all of the car sims together and toss in a reasonable estimate for iR, it begins to make more sense IMO.

Kevin Troschinski · Nov 24, 2021

I know a lot gamers in real life but only one simracer.
I have shown them all and tried to convince them how great simracing is.
No Chance - nobody interested

It’s like the hole World is playing fifa and MMOs

I think they all miss so much.....

But they all think i am kind of freak beeing simracer

THK84 · Nov 24, 2021

Kevin Troschinski said:
I know a lot gamers in real life but only one simracer.
I have shown them all and tried to convince them how great simracing is.
No Chance - nobody interested

It’s like the hole World is playing fifa and MMOs

I think they all miss so much.....

But they all think i am kind of freak beeing simracer

I have a non-gamer and a console FIFA+COD player over sometimes. They love it. The non-gamer just doesn't play games in any other occasion. The other isn't allowed the gear by my sis xD

mantasisg · Nov 24, 2021

Kevin Troschinski said:
I know a lot gamers in real life but only one simracer.
I have shown them all and tried to convince them how great simracing is.
No Chance - nobody interested

It’s like the hole World is playing fifa and MMOs

I think they all miss so much.....

But they all think i am kind of freak beeing simracer

Yes indeed it is weird how little interest there is. Games I choose are games that carries over some useful skills and knowledge into real life, while mixing in entertainment. I have so many hours in simracing, don't regret that at all. I learned so much, actually got confidence boost, it is even slightly kind of a fitness to burn couple extra calories to compensate cookie or two lol. I was also briefly interested in DayZ since it was interesting way to practice spoken english and somehow there was social bit to it, but devs made it less social..... So yes, if it helps me to get good at something that has real life benefit and it is interesting then I am in. This is one of main reason why I am very active in voicing realism concerns. I also wonder why it is never used as selling point, as marketing key ? Are gamers just simply not type of people that would look for achieving nay kind of excellence other than being high on some chart ?

Playing FIFA I guess it is nice in party when you push whatever buttons and scream, although as someone who loves football aka soccer for real, I can't understand the appeal at all, there is nothing like real life in it and it is chaos even more than table football. MMOs are the worst, while perhaps it helps to obtain mild strategic and organization skills, it is incredible time burner, it is only good for plugging out from reality, and if you put thousand hours in it, then it is already multiple times too much.

Respect for trying, I don't even try. I learned early that many people can have absolutely zero or even negative interest in things that you might be insanely passionate about. And it makes sense when there are so much possible activities, so much possible hobbies to have, and we tend to get immersed in one or a few. Damn... there are many people who live just to eat, work and sleep and nothing is interesting to them other than TV. Perhaps some of them can't afford a hobby... anyway as it is financially and time taxing....

I would assume that at least third of males would be very interested in cars, understanding them, being good at controlling them. But perhaps time changes, there is increasing interest in being controlled, assisted and governed in some way, so you wouldn't have to take care of stuff yourself and be an expert of various aspects of reality. Even more so, it is preferred not to face potentially difficult reality, which is called being on blue pill, which does relate very well to simulation, and popular argument would be "it is not realistic enough" while it is too realistic for them. So I guess it makes sense that even those who holds some interest in gaming, cars and racing, aren't interested in reality of it which is captured in simulation, because they just want everything to be easy and simple immediately without having to build up to that... I am afraid that in future most gamers will be too lazy to play at all, and will prefer watching others playing, oh wait... it is happening for years already.

BBRacing · Nov 24, 2021

Yeah a real shame with AMS2/RRE/RF as they are great sims and some great racing to be had.

Deleted member 197115 · Nov 24, 2021

Gevatter said:
It's not that clear cut and depends on the launch method you set in CM. I have it on Replace (I think it's called that) and Steam counts only CM being open as running the game. There may also be other methods that do that as well.

It's Steam (aka Replacement) starter and yes Steam counts hours in CM for that method as CM gets renamed to AssettoCorsa.exe so Steam sees it as a title itself. Good call.

stenovitz · Nov 24, 2021

Speednut357 said:
So I thought it would be interesting to look up my favourite sims. Peak concurrent player counts for yesterday.

Race 07 = 16
Gtr2 = 2
Automobilista 1 = 127

Astounds me that people still play Race 07. Thought I was the only one.

Talk about coincidence.

Haven't touched Race 07 since before the birth of my daugter, i.e. probably +6½ years ago.
EXCEPT for now in this very writing, just returned from a phenomenal Race 07 2-race sprint race with superpole and forced pitstop in the Alfa Romeo 2007 @Curitiba 07. WOW! What a relief of close AI racing! Modern sims, please listen to SimBin heritage, asap!

In fact this is the Steam-version of my Race 07, so HEY I'm in your numbers!

My Steam-version is from a purchase back in 2014 and a part of a Steam "SimBin Mega Bundle" consisting of:

GT Legends
GT Power Expansion
GTR - FIA GT Racing Game
GTR2 - FIA GT Racing Game
GTR EVolution
Race 07
Race 07 - Formula Raceroom Add-On
Race 07: Andy Priaulx Crowne Plaza Raceway
RACE: Catherham Expansion
Race Injection
RACE On
Race: The WTCC Game
The Retro Expansion
STCC: The Game
STCC II
The WTCC 2010 Pack

...all this for, and hold on, all-in-all a total of a mere €5,99 offer!

My original plan by then was to extend my DVD collection of GTR, GTR2, and WTCC with Race07 of which I got teased with an Amazon offer of $10 for the physical DVD incl physical, but then Steam got ahead of me.
In fact I just discovered in my Steam purchase history that I months before purchased Race 07 as a single game at near same price, but I can live with that, the combined pricing for a doublet including the major bundle is still less than a single new car or single new track at iRacing, R3E or ACC

Haven't investigated if this irresistable offer is still due, but in case ofcourse a nobrainer for every sim lover

Edit, ok so found it:

Save 50% on SimBin Mega Bundle on Steam

Includes 11 items: GT Legends, GTR - FIA GT Racing Game, GTR 2 FIA GT Racing Game, GTR Evolution Expansion Pack for RACE 07, RACE - The WTCC Game, RACE 07, RACE 07: Andy Priaulx Crowne Plaza Raceway (Free DLC), RACE Injection, RACE On, RACE: Caterham Expansion, STCC - The Game 1 - Expansion Pack for

store.steampowered.com

But now a pricing of €14,97 and sadly omissions from the above list, maybe due to EoL. Though still very fair for starters with newer gear (just bear in mind that the Steam-version of GTR2 is without the Ferrari and Porsche cars).

Now thinking through, I think this is the first ever time I actually race Race 07 with modern sim gear. Most of the SimBin package, except for ofcourse GTR2 and GPL with mods, I've just used most of the SimBin package as a "keyboard-driver quick drop-in race sandbox", except for WTCC but that must be before my G27 gear, i.e. must've been with my Thrustmaster Guillemotte Ferrari Force Feedback gear, i.e. just gas and brake pedal and no clutch.

So, in fact first ever time I race Race 07 with proper simrig as my T300RS-GT, T3PA with Ricmotech Loadcell, my T8HA H-shifter and in my Next Level Racing F-GT Lite rig - just so rewarding what you can get out of older sims with a decent rig. Just like my recent releif racing Grand Prix 2 first time ever not as a keyboad-driver, but with almost same rig (except y G27 pedals instead).

Edit: Before actually clicking 'post' of my above writing, I got teased yet again and freshly returned from another 2-race sprint race with superpole and forced pitstop, this time in the WTCC 2010 Chevrolet Cruze at the 2010 Marrakesh city track. with full WTCC 2010 pit. Oh WOW, Rock & Roll is still alive and will never die!

Edit 2: Steam statistics says I've used +230 hours on Race 07 alone. Cannot fathom this, since all my Race 07 acitivty is as 'quick drop-in keyboard-driving', and don't even reckon Race 07 in my top 10 of sims I race, besides I have my own sandbox of my original DVD's of GTL and GTR2 mods of which I all have used outside Steam.

Now, for my sake, the rest of this thread could be followed by and endless dirt track of grumpy bashing "new sim vs. new sim" or "this lacks everything". I don't care - I can die happy now

RCHeliguy · Nov 24, 2021

mantasisg said:
Yes indeed it is weird how little interest there is.

FWIW I recently made some major upgrades to my rig after many years of upgrades. I've had people over and they tend to say nice things, but something changed when I got my tactile system to the next level and added a belt tightening system.

Now I'm getting comments like, "I don't know how you could improve this", and for the wallflower who didn't even want to try it, "Wow that was actually a lot of fun." Not only that but I now have two people who tried it out asking me a thousand questions about building a rig. Keep in mind that these people were having trouble keeping the car on the track, but they saw improvement. One guy drove 90 minutes straight in VR. He had been on my rig about 18 months ago and thought it was pretty cool, no now he is completely smitten.

That said. Most people can't afford to build an uber rig, so that is not opening things for the masses, just the well healed.

Deleted member 197115 · Nov 24, 2021

ninezeroniner said:
Whenever I see FH selling better than Wreckfest I loose all faith in humanity.

Perhaps it's a better wrecker?

TheRealCeeBee · Nov 24, 2021

ETS2.... its like cocaine dusted peanuts.. so addictive.. I basically have not played any racing games since i bought it..

for reference, I got ETS2 about 2 months ago.. (the rest have been in there for years.

mantasisg · Nov 24, 2021

RCHeliguy said:
FWIW I recently made some major upgrades to my rig after many years of upgrades. I've had people over and they tend to say nice things, but something changed when I got my tactile system to the next level and added a belt tightening system.

Now I'm getting comments like, "I don't know how you could improve this", and for the wallflower who didn't even want to try it, "Wow that was actually a lot of fun." Not only that but I now have two people who tried it out asking me a thousand questions about building a rig. Keep in mind that these people were having trouble keeping the car on the track, but they saw improvement. One guy drove 90 minutes straight in VR. He had been on my rig about 18 months ago and thought it was pretty cool, no now he is completely smitten.

That said. Most people can't afford to build an uber rig, so that is not opening things for the masses, just the well healed.

I think it is not wrong to say that people are more turned on by gear than by simracing fundamentals. It is good for gear manufacturers and sellers in short run, but not as good for simracing. Where is the drive for actual evolution of simulation, realism, cars handling, interesting cars, etc... Can't put it in living room, take pictures of it and get upvoted in reddit.

Fascination about all this expensive and space occupying stuff probably repelling people more than it attracts. Many could find cheap controller, find room for it and play AC for example which is easy to engage and is fairly decent sim. But wouldn't do it, because rig is bellow standard which they create in their minds after heavy exposure in what is shared in media.

RCHeliguy · Nov 24, 2021

mantasisg said:
I think it is not wrong to say that people are more turned on by gear than by simracing fundamentals. It is good for gear manufacturers and sellers in short run, but not as good for simracing. Where is the drive for actual evolution of simulation, realism, cars handling, interesting cars, etc... Can't put it in living room, take pictures of it and get upvoted in reddit.

Fascination about all this expensive and space occupying stuff probably repelling people more than it attracts. Many could find cheap controller, find room for it and play AC for example which is easy to engage and is fairly decent sim. But wouldn't do it, because rig is bellow standard which they create in their minds after heavy exposure in what is shared in media.

To your first point, this expensive gear is allowing the actualization of what a sim gives you. All the telemetry is there. You just have to do something with that. It's not easy to do cheaply at least for now, but the realism is pretty amazing when it's done right. When it all is actually working together like a symphony there is something that goes click in your brain. I absolutely doesn't simulate hanging off your seatbelts when you are braking, but it's enough to fool your brain, at least if you don't get regular track time.

To your second point, I do see something happening in flight simulators where there is a push by some software companies like X11 to use hand tracking and to have the user flip virtual switches rather than touch anything real. It makes sense because that opens them up to a much wider audience. There is a mech Warrior type game I got a while ago that went the hand tracking route initially. And I think they wanted everyone to play. Of course there was screaming by their customer base for HOTAS type control support. Personally I don't enjoy flying a plane, helicopter, space ship with a game controller. I want to have a stick, throttle and pedals. For me I need to feel realistic controls.

Then again I was not a gamer before VR, period. I played nothing, had no game consoles, nothing. VR made thing interesting enough that it pulled me in further and I built my first rig. Sim racing on a game controller was a yawn experience for me. I had zero interest. Sim racing on a flat screen, still, zero interest.

Different people take different levels in immersion to find this involving enough to try.

How Popular Are Our Favourite PC Racing Sims?

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GTxForza

RCHeliguy

THK84

Speednut357

Bram Hengeveld

Kyuubeey

Sabine

RCHeliguy

aphidgod

Kevin Troschinski

THK84

mantasisg

BBRacing

Deleted member 197115

stenovitz

Save 50% on SimBin Mega Bundle on Steam

RCHeliguy

Deleted member 197115

TheRealCeeBee

mantasisg

RCHeliguy

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What's needed for simracing in 2024?

More games, period

Better graphics/visuals

Advanced physics and handling

More cars and tracks

AI improvements

AI engineering

Cross-platform play

New game Modes

Other, post your idea