ESL R1 | €500k Prize Pool at IEM Katowice for Rennsport-Based Event

Richard Wilks · Jan 25, 2023

GT-Alex said:
Each article gets thousands of views here, and racedepartment has nearly 3 millions users. A dozen of people commenting is hardly any representation of the global community. Truth is the majority are here for mods.

By the way, I am not affiliated with these companies, I do run pro events though (with proper stewarding before you mention the last thing I published) and I know people working in the industry, be it simracing or gaming in general. I am kinda defending my "product" here I guess, but that's because I think there's a genuine potential for all parties involved. Esports as a whole (esports is NOT just simracing) is several events reaching over a million PEAK viewers in 2022, more than half a billion viewers gross reach over the year, and it's a billions $ industry. Just an example that is directly related to this thread: FaZe Clan is valued at approximately 400 million $ right now. You don't reach that kind of value in a field nobody is interested in. Just as much as you don't generate that much value by catering to a niche market.

The only reason simracing is not getting a decent share is because current efforts from companies with the means to bring it up are half assed, and competent people are not getting proper funds and channels yet. ESL R1 could change that - I'm not saying it will, I'm not saying it's perfect, but at least it's a step in the right direction. And again, simracing NEEDS that step, or it will DIE, because the investments into racing games in general are decreasing. EA has gave up on licenses it just bought. Sony are very unhappy with how GT7 performed. MSG are just Houdiniying cash at this point to try justifying their existence on the market. Ian Bell has burned so many bridges I will be actually surprized if anything good comes from him anymore (I wish to be pleasantly surprized though).

It is evident that you'll probably keep your head dug in your echo chamber so I'm just gonna wish you good luck for the future.

Ah yes, of course you are selling something, but good on your for at least admitting it, unlike others who shill hard, but then it's all denials.

Simracing is dying? Well it is dying because we have inferior produts that scare people off, and the genre is overrun with shills gatekeeping them, or defending that you will be faster if you fork thousands on fancy wheels and rigs, not because the clients are not there. GT7 or others, they had their fair share of bad decisions that hampered them.

Tell me again, what did esports do for slight sims, or naval sims? Again thats what me and others want, esports won't bring that, so my interest in that is next to zero.

I never said esports werent a sucess with casual gaming, they are, but not in niches like simracing.

I suggest you go organize events with mario kart, i am sure you will have more success in that than in games where you spend a seizable amount of time looking into a setup menu.

Real simracing is and always will be a niche. Me and others accepted that. Its time for the esports people accept that too.

randomcallsign · Jan 25, 2023

Richard Wilks said:
Simracing is dying?Well it is dying because we have inferior produts that scare people off, and the genre is overrun with shills gatekeeping them, or defending that you will be faster if you fork thousands on fancy wheels and rigs, not because the clients are not there. GT7 or others, they had their fair share of bad decisions that hampered them.

Hard disagree.

You can have a look at the microcosm that is RD for the answer that is eluding you, just from a couple of weeks ago: rf2. Praised high and low, from the beaches to the mountains of valhalla as the true superior sim, in real life no one outside of those players gives a flying **** about it. Why should they?
Any comment, UI, usability, performance, pay model is met with huge resistance and active disdain. It's text book gatekeeping that creates an insularity. Therefore, there's no reason to engage especially when pastures are greener elsewhere. The problem with these attitudes is that they don't grow the playerbase, once again, why should any care, and thus the playerbase isn't getting any younger.

That's the issue at large with simracing, more so than any other genres. The titles arer small and extremely insular. They do not appeal to anyone outside of small interests. It needs young people. And young people will have different tastes, preferences and ways to interact with the hobby.

With Rennsport they are targetting a new demographic. If it fails it fails. But at least they are trying something different and focused, instead of threading the same old that itself receives HUGE resistance from simracers.
Nobody takes the idea from my head that simracers hate simracing.

Richard Wilks · Jan 25, 2023

randomcallsign said:
Hard disagree.

You can have a look at the microcosm that is RD for the answer that is eluding you, just from a couple of weeks ago: rf2. Praised high and low, from the beaches to the mountains of valhalla as the true superior sim, in real life no one outside of those players gives a flying **** about it. Why should they?
Any comment, UI, usability, performance, pay model is met with huge resistance and active disdain. It's text book gatekeeping that creates an insularity. Therefore, there's no reason to engage especially when pastures are greener elsewhere. The problem with these attitudes is that they don't grow the playerbase, once again, why should any care, and thus the playerbase isn't getting any younger.

That's the issue at large with simracing, more so than any other genres. It needs young people. And young people will have different tastes, preferences and ways to interact with the hobby.

With Rennsport they are targetting a new demographic. If it fails it fails. But at least they are trying something different and focused, instead of threading the same old that itself receives HUGE resistance from simracers.
Nobody takes the idea from my head that simracers hate simracing.

Hold on, i don't disagree with what you said actually. I do believe that the fanboys are gatekeeping hard, and keeping the genre hostage to old buggy games.

But i do disagree that "new audiences" will change that. I had my fair share of run ins with very young users that if anything, were gatekeeping even HARDER than old users.

And we dont even need simracing to see this, this is happening all over the gaming industry now, those "new demographics" are if anything, even more militant and hellbent on defending the undefensable, specially because unlike some of the older gamers, this is the only reality they know, so for them, THIS is the gaming landscape they are used to.

I believe the lack of young people in simracing is actually connected with the lack of young people following racing in general, not anything related with the gaming aspect of it. Again, Mario Kart and such games have big sell numbers, that doesnt translate into them becoming fans of real racing or simracing.

randomcallsign · Jan 25, 2023

Dying because new people aren't reached as the old guard are gatekeepers is not better than reaching a new player base that will have militant attitudes.

BeamNG, AC, are very popular and Forza, GTS and GT7 with all their faults are still huge. Supposedly, simracing would feed from both camps, yet we are babbling about keeping the purity seal from the hobby.

So, want better products? We need more people in simracing.

Richard Wilks · Jan 25, 2023

randomcallsign said:
Dying because new people aren't reached as the old guard are gatekeepers is not better than reaching a new player base that will have militant attitudes.

BeamNG, AC, are very popular and Forza, GTS and GT7 with all their faults are still huge. Supposedly, simracing would feed from both camps, yet we are babbling about keeping the purity seal from the hobby.

So, want better products? We need more people in simracing.

Well again, keeping "purity" for who? AC is popular yes, but not for racing, nor is beamNG.

Forza GTS and GT7 are huge indeed. Can i run a full Nascar racing with AI and a full 43 car field in them without problems? No. Can i do that in any other game, including the OFFICIAL Nascar game? No.

THIS is what's killing simracing. If you cant even SIMULATE a proper race, then this genre is not even simracing to begin with. How can you even cater to the real racing fans, if you cant race in these games like they see on TV?

This is not keeping any purity, is being aware that the genre is lingering because i am supposed to accept that "nobody wants to run a full nascar race"?...

Thats why i say, the ONLY sim that works is F1 22. More of that please, career mode and all. Thats what the genre needs.

randomcallsign · Jan 25, 2023

The examples you are talking about is something more than just simracing: it's roleplaying. It's also coming from your preference of playing against the AI or to roleplay something. While that is simracing, it's an issue that you have with the license holders, not with simracing proper.

A 15year pimpled kid in a esports stage turning laps in a GT3 car in front of a live audience, it's *also* simracing. It's a different type of one, with a different cohort.

Simracing doesn't need more of F122. It needs more of F122 *and* ACC *and* RF2 *and* "insert esports games". Simracing isn't something you can pigeonhole so it dies.

Because if you try it, you get this

https://twitter.com/x/status/1617931530839400448

It becomes seasonal, it becomes episodic. That is another whole can of worms because the yearly installments F1 does with minor updates over the years does seem like a low-ended cashgrab. But there, I'm voting with my wallet.

We need choice. We need a new demographic.

Peter Kerényi · Jan 25, 2023

Richard Wilks said:
Well again, keeping "purity" for who? AC is popular yes, but not for racing, nor is beamNG.

Forza GTS and GT7 are huge indeed. Can i run a full Nascar racing with AI and a full 43 car field in them without problems? No. Can i do that in any other game, including the OFFICIAL Nascar game? No.

THIS is what's killing simracing. If you cant even SIMULATE a proper race, then this genre is not even simracing to begin with. How can you even cater to the real racing fans, if you cant race in these games like they see on TV?

This is not keeping any purity, is being aware that the genre is lingering because i am supposed to accept that "nobody wants to run a full nascar race"?...

Thats why i say, the ONLY sim that works is F1 22. More of that please, career mode and all. Thats what the genre needs.

But can you run a full Nascar race with AI abd a full 43 car field in F1 22??!

/s sorry I had to

Agreed about F1 22 though. And in the general points as well

ACC often comes close but the AI tends to be boring sometimes. Not much overtaking IRL either though in GT3.

Richard Wilks · Jan 25, 2023

randomcallsign said:
The examples you are talking about is something more than just simracing: it's roleplaying. It's also coming from your preference of playing against the AI or to roleplay something. While that is simracing, it's an issue that you have with the license holders, not with simracing proper.

A 15year pimpled kid in a esports stage turning laps in a GT3 car in front of a live audience, it's *also* simracing. It's a different type of one, with a different cohort.

Simracing doesn't need more of F122. It needs more of F122 *and* ACC *and* RF2 *and* "insert esports games". Simracing isn't something you can pigeonhole so it dies.

Because if you try it, you get this

https://twitter.com/x/status/1617931530839400448

It becomes seasonal, it becomes episodic. That is another whole can of worms because the yearly installments F1 does with minor updates over the years does seem like a low-ended cashgrab. But there, I'm voting with my wallet.

We need choice. We need a new demographic.

That demographic will not bring either what i want from a game, neither the money to invest on said game.

I gave plenty of examples on this thread of other genres where this same thing happened. Plenty of kids playing war of warships. Do we get Silent Hunter 6? No.

We had better games 20 years ago than now, exception being indeed F1 22 and maybe motoGP. And still these two have more bugs than they should.

i am also voting with my wallet, we all are, thats exactly why simracing is dying, these devs have nothing more to offer than buggy games, and getting new players to buy the same old games wont change it, nor will it change to have an "esports only" game. Polyphony had the same idea, and yet, here they are, stuck with GT7 now and trying to make somehow the game more profitable in face of a dwindling audience that is indeed more interested in seeing people play fortnite than they are with racing, real or simulated. But they TRIED the esports route already. And yes, they are saying "they did it wrong". Why, because they dont allow everybody and their mother to run some esports event with their game? Like if that would have changed anything, when you can play from your home...

But sure, go ahead Rennsport, i am not bothered if they try and fail, in fact, people seem to be more bothered here with what me or others think of esports, rather than what they do.

Richard Wilks · Jan 25, 2023

And about that "role playing" aspect, if i follow that logic, the same pimpled kid playing mario kart is also simracing according to that definition, because i can make a GT3 car in a game as removed from reality as i can make mario kart. Unless we start discussing "physics", but then we know where this talk ends up, and we will have to come up with stupid terms like "simcade" and whatnot.

Pete Conway · Jan 25, 2023

GT-Alex said:
Each article gets thousands of views here, and racedepartment has nearly 3 millions users. A dozen of people commenting is hardly any representation of the global community. Truth is the majority are here for mods.

By the way, I am not affiliated with these companies, I do run pro events though (with proper stewarding before you mention the last thing I published) and I know people working in the industry, be it simracing or gaming in general. I am kinda defending my "product" here I guess, but that's because I think there's a genuine potential for all parties involved. Esports as a whole (esports is NOT just simracing) is several events reaching over a million PEAK viewers in 2022, more than half a billion viewers gross reach over the year, and it's a billions $ industry. Just an example that is directly related to this thread: FaZe Clan is valued at approximately 400 million $ right now. You don't reach that kind of value in a field nobody is interested in. Just as much as you don't generate that much value by catering to a niche market.

The only reason simracing is not getting a decent share is because current efforts from companies with the means to bring it up are half assed, and competent people are not getting proper funds and channels yet. ESL R1 could change that - I'm not saying it will, I'm not saying it's perfect, but at least it's a step in the right direction. And again, simracing NEEDS that step, or it will DIE, because the investments into racing games in general are decreasing. EA has gave up on licenses it just bought. Sony are very unhappy with how GT7 performed. MSG are just Houdiniying cash at this point to try justifying their existence on the market. Ian Bell has burned so many bridges I will be actually surprized if anything good comes from him anymore (I wish to be pleasantly surprized though).

It is evident that you'll probably keep your head dug in your echo chamber so I'm just gonna wish you good luck for the future.

Sim Racing is a niche genre... in comparison to other games, the FPS market took off in a big way because of the teenagers it attracted, and many of them stayed, Sim Racing is different, firstly there's a lot fewer folks follow (not just watch because it's on) Motor Racing and even fewer go to see actual races (not including those with a Race on their bucket list)

If you ask a random guy if he knows what the BRDC or the SMRC is he'll likely pull a blank out, though if you ask about the FIA he'll probably say... "Oh! that's F1 isn't it"
And, if you take all those folks that Do follow motor racing, few of them will actually sit down for many hours a week with an expensive (triple figure) wheel and use their time that way, (their kids though, might very well spend 20+ hours with an FPS)

Yes Gran Turismo sold a good few games so did Forza, but very much like today's F1 fans they're not so much all 'living and breathing' fans, they're occasional or casual fans, and fetch it out and fire a few laps in to pass time, and that is where the money is.
It's not about the dyed in the wool car nut... we're weird, always talking about cars and beginning random conversations like "so if you were in charge of Donnington Circuit wha.... oh, nothing, sorry Burt"
No, sales are what counts and the car nut is already sold, what you need to do is sell to the guys that don't already want it... and convince them that they do, water it down make a big splash and remember, it's a bigger market... don't forget the micro purchases and get em' to sign up for a monthly sub too.
C'mon, Lets fleece these suckers

Austin Ogonoski · Jan 25, 2023

GT-Alex said:
Just an example that is directly related to this thread: FaZe Clan is valued at approximately 400 million $ right now. You don't reach that kind of value in a field nobody is interested in. Just as much as you don't generate that much value by catering to a niche market.

The only reason simracing is not getting a decent share is because current efforts from companies with the means to bring it up are half assed, and competent people are not getting proper funds and channels yet. ESL R1 could change that - I'm not saying it will, I'm not saying it's perfect, but at least it's a step in the right direction.

GT-Alex · Jan 25, 2023

Pete Conway said:
Sim Racing is a niche genre... in comparison to other games, the FPS market took off in a big way because of the teenagers it attracted, and many of them stayed, Sim Racing is different, firstly there's a lot fewer folks follow (not just watch because it's on) Motor Racing and even fewer go to see actual races (not including those with a Race on their bucket list)

If you ask a random guy if he knows what the BRDC or the SMRC is he'll likely pull a blank out, though if you ask about the FIA he'll probably say... "Oh! that's F1 isn't it"
And, if you take all those folks that Do follow motor racing, few of them will actually sit down for many hours a week with an expensive (triple figure) wheel and use their time that way, (their kids though, might very well spend 20+ hours with an FPS)

Yes Gran Turismo sold a good few games so did Forza, but very much like today's F1 fans they're not so much all 'living and breathing' fans, they're occasional or casual fans, and fetch it out and fire a few laps in to pass time, and that is where the money is.
It's not about the dyed in the wool car nut... we're weird, always talking about cars and beginning random conversations like "so if you were in charge of Donnington Circuit wha.... oh, nothing, sorry Burt"
No, sales are what counts and the car nut is already sold, what you need to do is sell to the guys that don't already want it... and convince them that they do, water it down make a big splash and remember, it's a bigger market... don't forget the micro purchases and get em' to sign up for a monthly sub too.
C'mon, Lets fleece these suckers

99% of FPS players aren't engaged in military, or have any actual interest or knowledge in the field. They play the games because it's a fun activity that's straightforward and easy to access. Simracing can be made straightforward and easy to access, and for having hosted events both online and offline involving casuals / complete strangers to the hobby, I can tell you it's fun for most people on the planet. If anything, I believe racing in esports could become bigger than shooting games in the long run because it doesn't depict violence, and a lot of people dislike violence showcases. Simracing is a niche genre because it's not trying not to be a niche genre. Well, at least until now, maybe Rennsport is about to try.

Richard Wilks · Jan 25, 2023

GT-Alex said:
99% of FPS players aren't engaged in military, or have any actual interest or knowledge in the field. They play the games because it's a fun activity that's straightforward and easy to access. Simracing can be made straightforward and easy to access, and for having hosted events both online and offline involving casuals / complete strangers to the hobby, I can tell you it's fun for most people on the planet. If anything, I believe racing in esports could become bigger than shooting games in the long run because it doesn't depict violence, and a lot of people dislike violence showcases. Simracing is a niche genre because it's not trying not to be a niche genre. Well, at least until now, maybe Rennsport is about to try.

First of all, FPS players are not playing realistic combat simulators. They are playing the equivalent of 5 lap grand turismo shootouts with fantasy cars in the genre in esports.

Second, the barrier of entry is and will always be much higher in racing sims, due to the equipment involved.

Unless of course, you play mario kart with a gamepad..

Pete Conway · Jan 25, 2023

GT-Alex said:
99% of FPS players aren't engaged in military, or have any actual interest or knowledge in the field. They play the games because it's a fun activity that's straightforward and easy to access. Simracing can be made straightforward and easy to access, and for having hosted events both online and offline involving casuals / complete strangers to the hobby, I can tell you it's fun for most people on the planet. If anything, I believe racing in esports could become bigger than shooting games in the long run because it doesn't depict violence, and a lot of people dislike violence showcases. Simracing is a niche genre because it's not trying not to be a niche genre. Well, at least until now, maybe Rennsport is about to try.

Right now on Steam
4500 players on ACC,
850000 playing CS GO,
If you look at all race games combined 50000, and include Rocket league and GTA5 you might push to a quarter the amount of CS players.
The only way FPS will have less players than racing games is to ban FPS games.

Note that there are ten times as many players playing RL (car football) than ACC,
What I'm saying is, you've simply gotta' admit that unless you make the Race Sim a game with fun rubbish* that no 'simmer' wants you ain't gonna sell it big, and the profits will be low.

* Bells, whistles, car wash, bonus points, win a million stars, Fireworks....

GT-Alex · Jan 25, 2023

Richard Wilks said:
Second, the barrier of entry is and will always be much higher in racing sims, due to the equipment involved.

One of the Gran Turismo world champion uses pad (Daniel Solis). Very same dude tried AC1 on a whim on pad still and was quickly very competent at it (I was racing him). Some dudes are even fast on a keyboard. I've even raced a handicaped guy who used a mouth controller with great pace (may he rest in peace). Until about a year ago, the guy with the highest irating was running a stock G25. Equipment barrier in simracing is a fallacy. It is NOT needed to be fast. It's ALL about being used to a method of input. Hell, there are even handicaped people who are able to drive and even race real cars with alternative control devices. I've driven a real life Miata with a clutch lever on the gearknob and I thought it was actually nice.

Sure, wheels generally make the experience more enjoyable and immersive. The existing community makes people think it's a requirement, but they're NOT a requirement. In fact, good equipment is actually less important in simracing than it is in games like FPS, because your performances in any sensibly coded racing game doesn't benefit from running absurd framerates. FPS games require FPS (stupid acronyms) at competitive levels, which means people invest in 5k computers and turn graphics down just to get as much framerate as technically possible. The peripherals also actually impact performances for the best players, and the mouses and mechanical keyboards they use are not cheap. A Zaunkoenig M2k mouse is 300$ for example: you can have a T300 for that amount.

Pete Conway said:
Right now on Steam
4500 players on ACC,
850000 playing CS GO,
If you look at all race games combined 50000, and include Rocket league and GTA5 you might push to a quarter the amount of CS players.

Good, you just pulled out the figures I didn't think were necessary to show here. Those are indeed the current state of things. But those figures don't mean anything regarding this:

Pete Conway said:
The only way FPS will have less players than racing games is to ban FPS games.

Because everything isn't locked and eternally condemned to stay as it is right now at this very precise moment. CS is an old franchise that has more or less always been a competitive environment, and CS:GO is more than a decade old, and solidly installed in esports since release, than can run on a potato. If anything, this is a great proof that esports can push a whole genre up the charts.

Also, Gran Turismo Sport, an outdated game, still had nearly 500.000 active players within the last 7 days, proof here. Can't say what the stats are for GT7 because they blocked the APIs Kudosprime was using for GTS stats (which is an extremely stupid move from Polyphony Digital).

Simracing can grow, and it can do so in a big way. Sure, it won't overtake FPS tomorrow (which is why I said IN THE LONG RUN regarding that scenario) but as I already said, more people than not enjoy doing the act of racing. Really. Set up a rig anywhere and you'll instantly see a lot of people taking a look at it and asking if they can try. Show them they can do it and have fun with it and they'll bite. That would require providing simplified mechanics and formats for entry, but that doesn't mean the more complex layers have to be removed. Provide modes where setups are locked and races are short or tyre wear disabled so that people can just jump in and have fun immediately without too much thinking. Make games good on pad and advertize that they are. Bring back DFGT / T150 style wheels in a 100 - 150 bucks budget range to satisfy those who want more immersion but can't tell the difference between that and a DD with hydraulic pedals.

Honestly, Gran Turismo had the potential to do it, but they made so many contradictory and just plain stupid decisions they managed to miss a gifted golden opportunity twice in a row now. Had they given GT7 an extra year of dev time, ignored some of Kazunori's weird views and hired a dedicated team of experienced people to manage the esports side of things (no they don't have that, yes it's just a bunch of already existing employees just doing stuff on the live events on top of their normal jobs), they would have retained the initial viewership easily. By cutting the unnecessary costs and not insisting on refusing team sponsors aside their own weird non profitable partnerships, it would probably be generating good amounts of money by now.

Pete Conway · Jan 25, 2023

Can't tell you what the weekly for CS GO is but the monthly figure is 27,000,000.

And only 3% of GT7 players have 50 or more races under their belt on-line, I think it's about 80% have not a single race on-line.
My opinion is GT7 should have remained a true off-line solo player game, and kept the early pre GT5 features and a bunch more added, instead of trying to please a small faction.

Edit
6.8% of players have washed a car 10 times or more to get the platinum trophy... washing a car that doesn't get dirty is pathetic and isn't a trophy worthy feature, This is the contempt in which purchasers of GT7 are held by Polyphony

Richard Wilks · Jan 25, 2023

GT-Alex said:
One of the Gran Turismo world champion uses pad (Daniel Solis). Very same dude tried AC1 on a whim on pad still and was quickly very competent at it (I was racing him). Some dudes are even fast on a keyboard. I've even raced a handicaped guy who used a mouth controller with great pace (may he rest in peace). Until about a year ago, the guy with the highest irating was running a stock G25. Equipment barrier in simracing is a fallacy. It is NOT needed to be fast. It's ALL about being used to a method of input. Hell, there are even handicaped people who are able to drive and even race real cars with alternative control devices. I've driven a real life Miata with a clutch lever on the gearknob and I thought it was actually nice.

Sure, wheels generally make the experience more enjoyable and immersive. The existing community makes people think it's a requirement, but they're NOT a requirement. In fact, good equipment is actually less important in simracing than it is in games like FPS, because your performances in any sensibly coded racing game doesn't benefit from running absurd framerates. FPS games require FPS (stupid acronyms) at competitive levels, which means people invest in 5k computers and turn graphics down just to get as much framerate as technically possible. The peripherals also actually impact performances for the best players, and the mouses and mechanical keyboards they use are not cheap. A Zaunkoenig M2k mouse is 300$ for example: you can have a T300 for that amount.

Good, you just pulled out the figures I didn't think were necessary to show here. Those are indeed the current state of things. But those figures don't mean anything regarding this:

Because everything isn't locked and eternally condemned to stay as it is right now at this very precise moment. CS is an old franchise that has more or less always been a competitive environment, and CS:GO is more than a decade old, and solidly installed in esports since release, than can run on a potato. If anything, this is a great proof that esports can push a whole genre up the charts.

Also, Gran Turismo Sport, an outdated game, still had nearly 500.000 active players within the last 7 days, proof here. Can't say what the stats are for GT7 because they blocked the APIs Kudosprime was using for GTS stats (which is an extremely stupid move from Polyphony Digital).

Simracing can grow, and it can do so in a big way. Sure, it won't overtake FPS tomorrow (which is why I said IN THE LONG RUN regarding that scenario) but as I already said, more people than not enjoy doing the act of racing. Really. Set up a rig anywhere and you'll instantly see a lot of people taking a look at it and asking if they can try. Show them they can do it and have fun with it and they'll bite. That would require providing simplified mechanics and formats for entry, but that doesn't mean the more complex layers have to be removed. Provide modes where setups are locked and races are short or tyre wear disabled so that people can just jump in and have fun immediately without too much thinking. Make games good on pad and advertize that they are. Bring back DFGT / T150 style wheels in a 100 - 150 bucks budget range to satisfy those who want more immersion but can't tell the difference between that and a DD with hydraulic pedals.

Honestly, Gran Turismo had the potential to do it, but they made so many contradictory and just plain stupid decisions they managed to miss a gifted golden opportunity twice in a row now. Had they given GT7 an extra year of dev time, ignored some of Kazunori's weird views and hired a dedicated team of experienced people to manage the esports side of things (no they don't have that, yes it's just a bunch of already existing employees just doing stuff on the live events on top of their normal jobs), they would have retained the initial viewership easily. By cutting the unnecessary costs and not insisting on refusing team sponsors aside their own weird non profitable partnerships, it would probably be generating good amounts of money by now.

You are preaching to the choir here. I always said you didnt need expensive equipment to be "good" or "fast". But you still need something. That something is always an expense. Plus, don't be intellectually dishonest, i dont see anybody in those big esports events driving with a pad of a keyboard. And if they did, and still be able to be quick, we might as well go back to Mario Kart, because unless you have software integration and filters (meaning hacks) built into the software, your chances of having the required finess to drive a REALISTIC thing as well as with a wheel are close to zero. There is a reason why you dont drive a real car with a rudder. Still, i am sure that doesnt bother you, because alll you want is "big esport racing game", you dont really care about the sim aspects. Oh and i have been advocating for cheaper wheels for a long time.

Ah yes, i guess where GT went wrong was in not hiring YOU right?

....

Esports is a money pit for sponsors, specially in simracing. But you know all this, you just want a sweet piece of that sponsored pie...

But you see, i dont CARE if racing games become esports big. Ultimately, i dont even think that is desirable, something you don't seem to have goten yet, despite me saying it over and over again.

Richard Wilks · Jan 25, 2023

double post.

NicoCL68 · Jan 26, 2023

Some of the world best cheaters race here.

R3dS1lver · Feb 5, 2023

Hype before content Its the new way of the world. Faze clan are a big name in esport? Not sure how that brand helps any.

ESL R1 | €500k Prize Pool at IEM Katowice for Rennsport-Based Event

How The Tournament is Structured​

The Participating Teams​

The Calendar​

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How The Tournament is Structured

The Participating Teams

The Calendar